My TvP build (Hey, I made a guide!)

Terran Discussion
I've typed this whole thing out at least 4 times in other threads, over the last couple weeks, so now I'm going to copy/paste it into a guide thread and maybe clean it up a bit. I don't have replays yet, but I'll see if I can get some up at some point (might take a while).


I've been having a huge amount of success (as in 90% on ladder, as well as most Diamond toss and even a few Master Protoss in customs) with a reactor-first 2rax build and then lots of pressure (but not suicidal pressure... know the difference). People like to say that Marines are bad against Protoss, but this isn't true. Marines are bad against their hard counters, which Protoss gets the latest out of the three races. Marines are GREAT against gateway units. You will need a few Marauders to help kite Zealots and prevent Stalkers from kiting you, but the Marines are the real damage dealers.

10 depot
12 rax
14.5 gas
15 OC

Throw down a 2nd rax then reactor the first rax BEFORE your second depot. As soon as the OC finishes and you start SCVs again, build the depot the moment you can afford it. Timing is critical here. If you do it right, the reactor and depot should finish together, otherwise you'll get supply blocked and it'll screw up the early timing. The 3rd depot also needs to come immediately after the 2nd.

Once the 2nd rax finishes, tech lab immediately, then pump Marauders and start Concussive Shells (stim immediately after).

You can pressure after the first Marauder pops, but mostly you're looking to see if he's expanded. Don't go up the ramp unless you know that he doesn't have Sentries (he WILL have Sentries).

This build is super safe against pretty much any opener, except DTs (you'll have to scout those and get detection). Wall off your ramp with depots to keep Zealots out and delay DTs (with SCVs repairing) if you need to buy time for emergency detection.

With the constant pressure and denying his expo as much as possible, you're delaying his scary tech. You can expand around 7 minutes or so, or one base and throw down a factory and 2nd refinery and 6:30.


Here are a couple of scenarios:

Nexus-first (before Gateway): You won't see this often, it's super greedy, but I have had a couple of Master Protoss try this in customs. You're scouting SCV should see it... it's that early. Go ahead and turn it into a 3rax (another techlab) and start non-stop aggression around 6 minutes. He won't survive (I beat both Master players that tried this one me).

1 Gate FE: I little bit more common. Do the one base variant (fact at 6:30) and make a couple of Tanks. Get Siege mode when you can afford it after the 2nd Tank, then get a Starport. Push with 2 Tanks and and Medivac on the way (rally it you where you're going to be). Pull about a dozen SCVs on auto-repair to buffer against the Zealots and use the Tanks to focus down the Sentries over his force fields (he'll have a lot of them). Don't make more than 3 Tanks, switch to Medivacs after that. He'll lose his expo and you can take a late one (cut Marauders), but he's probably done at this point.

One base Colossus: Do the one-base variant, reactor the Starport. Get two Medivacs and then 2 Vikings. Push with the Medivacs and bring a dozen SCVs again, like above. Rally in the Vikings and don't try to chase the Colossus until they arrive.

3gate Immortal / 3gate VR: You'll have a ton of Marines and stim on the way. You might want a bunker against the VR. You can also 1 base again and get Vikings fast, if you think you need them.

Feel free to ask any questions. Hope it helps. :)

EDIT: Credit goes to both Ruin and Halby for this build. I basically took Ruin's opener and mashed it with concepts from Halby's TvP. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/user/HalbyStarcraft
Added this to the "Useful Terran Learning Threads" sticky at the top of the forums.
Haha, uh oh... I just got immortalized. I hope people find this useful and it doesn't bring down the quality of your thread. :P

but thanks all the same. :D
solid 2rax expand build, i use the exact same thing all the time. timings were even more strict before the rax increase in time.


i originally copied it from a masters player who beat me as toss a long time ago.
solid 2rax expand build, i use the exact same thing all the time. timings were even more strict before the rax increase in time.


i originally copied it from a masters player who beat me as toss a long time ago.


Yeah, I don't remember exactly, but I'm wanting to think that you had to go reactor-depot-rax after OC, back then, instead of reactor-rax-depot.
Heh. Me and my grilled cheese sammich came to these forums looking for this exact thing.
Again, this is the TvP opening i usually go every game. I usually get stim first (personal preference, i want to kill his entire army, not just chase a stalker or two). If i see my toss buddy on 1 base by the time i get there, i scan , and simply walk away if he is fortified. I try to prepare for whatever hes got cooking, but a well positioned tech building negates all scaning.

Anyways, Thanks for posting the precise Build Order. I learned early on when i first tried this build that if i wanted to keep making scvs, i NEEDED to build that 3rd depo immediately. So much blood....

Thanks again :D
solid 2rax expand build, i use the exact same thing all the time. timings were even more strict before the rax increase in time.


i originally copied it from a masters player who beat me as toss a long time ago.


Yeah, I don't remember exactly, but I'm wanting to think that you had to go reactor-depot-rax after OC, back then, instead of reactor-rax-depot.


right now, i usually jsut cut supply at 15 go OC, rax, reactor, scv, supply depot.


Yeah, I don't remember exactly, but I'm wanting to think that you had to go reactor-depot-rax after OC, back then, instead of reactor-rax-depot.


right now, i usually jsut cut supply at 15 go OC, rax, reactor, scv, supply depot.


Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I got it backwards in my last post. It's correct up top, though.
Matt, can you post a couple of replays?
11/10/2011 10:53 AMPosted by Archimage
Matt, can you post a couple of replays?


I'm working on it, but I'm going to be out of town for a few days, so it won't be until I get back at the earliest.
Woot, I needed a solid TvP opener for a while. Thanks a lot. =D
This is supposed to be your build? Pretty sure i used this since Beta and so have the entire Terran community at PlayXP. Please don't claim credit for stub builds.
It look almost exactly as my TvP opener but I never go 1-base. I always take an expo built directly on-site and play on 4 rax + reactored starport

My problem is with 1-base protoss because my initial push will fail and it put my on defensive position... or I enter base trade because my timing is identical with 3 gates+robo timing.

I'll try the one base version... even if protoss will bm me.

edited : sorry to edit by I was forgetting another problem : 2 gates zealot sometime catch me. I survive but always lose most my scv.
11/11/2011 12:28 PMPosted by Memadbyte
it's a old standard tvp stub build, the problem is beating the millions of ez upgrade zealots late game. Master protoss actually can defend drops its annoying as hell that you can't kill a protoss because his zealots get tickled by your army and you have to kite endlessly while they a click and win.


Unfortunately, this.
!@#$ protoss players
Really hope you get some replays up, I It always alot easier for me to remember build orders when im watching them over reading them.
Is this a joke? Most masters toss can easily shut down 2 rax Reactor first pressure, although it is possible to do damage or 'pressure' a little bit, I really think tossing down the factory is a terrible move.
Matt, don't forget the replays when you have a chance.

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