[PvZ Build] 2-base Mothership Expand

Protoss Discussion
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I really don't need to talk to you anymore. Granted, nobody will ever respect anything you have to say anymore because of what a dumbass you are being, and I'll be satisfied as soon as you realize that nobody likes you and you go back to whoever's !@#$%^- you crawled out of.

Hahaha that's funny. I mean, how dare someone suggest a low Master build may not actually be viable when the opponent knows what to do?

Haha I remember MC went for a Sky build vs DRG in the Blizzard Cup. Didn't exactly work out very well for him.

You mean the game when MC went for a Sky build vs. DRG going blind Spire and DRG got absolutely massacred? Yeah, didn't exactly work out very well for him.

Edit: Nevermind. Unlike you, I do my fact checking, and the game I'm referring to was during the group stage of an MLG Arena. MC 3-0'd DongRaeGu opening Stargate in 2 out of the 3 games.
Updated replays again.
GG WP Sidewinder.

I'm in Diamond as of halfway through this season. It's not my fault Blizzard's new interface is retarded and showing my 1v1 as Platinum still. Good job pulling the league card, though.

Regardless, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. No one cares that you can point to a particular game in which a "skytoss build" lost. Was MC's build identical, or even remotely similar to, the build proposed in this thread? Oh wait no, it wasn't, and therefore your point is entirely irrelevant. I'm guessing you're just another brainless sh!tter who thinks "going air" is a strategy and that all "skytoss" builds are inherently bad.

I'm also willing to bet that, unless you watched the most recent Proleague, you haven't even seen a Skytoss build anything like the one in this thread. Currently, when pros open double Stargate, they essentially treat it as an all-in. They make 2-4 Void Rays, then rally tons of Phoenix behind it in hopes of doing critical damage to the Zerg. There is no Mothership or Cannons behind it to hold a third base. For that matter, there is no real defense other than Phoenix lift to hold off the inevitable counterattack if critical damage isn't done. Sometimes it works, sometimes it loses terribly.

This is completely different from Sidewinder's build, which makes enough Void Rays and Cannons to hold off the 10-12 minute attack window with the help of Mothership cloak. If Zerg attacks into that, he will lose a lot more than you will, you will still be on three bases, and you will be in good shape to either all-in before hive tech or to transition into Carrier/Archon for the late game.

So you're saying that if a build doesn't work once, it's no longer viable?

Well, the build doesn't work at pro level so of course it isn't viable.

I'm pretty sure the fact that a professional gamer opted to use the build means that it is VERY viable.

Nope, that's like the only time it was used ever and MC god SLAPPED on surprise, Calm Before the Storm. The EASIEST map for Toss to turtle on and get 3 bases. On that sort of map maybe it could work vs a good player but not on a balanced map that has lasted more than 1 season in the GSL rofl.

You're basically saying this: a 7 warpgate rush doesn't work all the time, so it's bad and you shouldn't do it.

MC won countless games using the 7 warpgate rush but it didn't work a few games. Telling MC that his all-in is no longer viable is completely stupid... there is no such thing as a one-build-fits-all... everything is situational, and the double stargate build works in its own right. Your logic doesn't make much sense, and hugging Jecho's nuts doesn't make you correct.

Maybe one day when you get to masters and try the build out yourself, then you can call it "not viable". In the meantime, I will enjoy using this build to wipe all these Masters Zerg players off the ladder. Cheers.
LOL. I just watched the replay, and I can now say with 100% certainty you are either a complete retard or a complete troll. It's hard to tell sometimes because you actually seem to believe the !@#$ you spew.

I'll break it down for you, since your reading comprehension is obviously third-grade level. MC's build was, as I said, NOT the build described in this thread. It is a complete non sequitur to claim that the Blizzard Cup replay proves this build doesn't work. They are nothing alike. So let's take it point by point:

1. MC made ONE Void Ray in that entire game, and then proceeded to pump Phoenix off of two Stargates. The 2-Base Mothership expand, which is what everyone else in this thread means by "Skytoss," produces 8-10 Void Rays off of 2 Stargates and doesn't even make more than 1 scouting Phoenix unless Zerg is going Mutas. If MC had had 8 Void Rays instead of all those useless Phoenix, he would have easily repelled the attack on the third.

2. MC immediately began Carrier production after expanding to his third. As Sidewinder has explained in the OP, this transition is known to be vulnerable to aggression because it ties up considerable supply and resources in units that aren't even on the field yet. The appropriate follow-ups are Chargelot/Archon off of 10 Gates or Chargelot/Archon/Immortal off of 7-ish Gates and 1-2 Robos. Combined with the Void Rays you already have, this composition has an answer to any attack Zerg can muster in the mid-game.

3. MC began double Robo Colossus production after he had ~4 Carriers. As a result, his entire army (Phoenix, Carriers, Colossi) was vulnerable to DRG's Corruptors. He had no supporting units to protect his Carriers (Phoenix are useless against Corruptors), and as a result the expensive core of his army just died. MC should have teched to Archons instead of Colossi; Archons are extremely good support for Carriers because any attempt by Corruptors to approach a micro'd Carrier can be punished with Archon splash. Even a modest Zealot/Archon force to support his Carriers would have allowed MC to hold DRG's attack, allowed him to get his fourth rolling, and allowed him to get up the ultimate composition: Carrier/Archon/HT.

In summation, you are either painfully ignorant or a troll. MC's opening was not the 2-base mothership expand described in this thread, he made critical errors in unit composition and transitions, and he lost the game as a result. The game MC played does not prove that Sidewinder's build doesn't work; it proves that the build MC used doesn't work.
Snake is clearly stupid. Oh well, thanks for the build sidewinder! It works wonders.
LOL. I just watched the replay, and I can now say with 100% certainty you are either a complete retard or a complete troll. It's hard to tell sometimes because you actually seem to believe the !@#$ you spew.

How cute, a Plat thinking his opinion matters on this.


I don't care if it's not the same stuff like here. MC did it, it didn't work. Only pro attempt at a sky build on a blatantly imbalanced map for Toss. What !@#$ing more proof do you need that it doesn't work? Two pros have already said (and one of them was a %^-*ing Toss) it doesn't work. Get it through your head, it is not a good build that a pro is going to win a GSL with.

Yep, now I'm sure you're just a troll. No one is stupid enough to think it's the same build just because the units come out of the same building. Next you're going to tell us that Robo builds are bad in PvT because you'll lose horribly if you produce tons of Immortals instead of Colossi. Troll harder, garbage.
08/06/2012 10:44 PMPosted by LGStrikeR
Snake is clearly stupid. Oh well, thanks for the build sidewinder! It works wonders.

Yep, he's obviously mentally challenged. Today I learned that producing 10 Phoenix is equivalent to producing 10 Void Rays. I never before would have imagined that making the same production facilities means it's the same build even if you produce completely different units. Thanks for opening my eyes to that amazing insight, snake. Tell me, how many times did your head hit the floor before you came up with that one?

people who can't even get to high Masters or Masters at all ROFL.

You mean like you, after 2000 ladder games? LOL. Troll harder, garbage.

Edit: LOL @ Desrow and Jecho being good at this game. I'm sorry you had to bring up sh!tcore semi-pros to support your argument. Next you're going to quote Incholesterol. LOL.
08/06/2012 11:02 PMPosted by snake
No, I'm just an idiot

Hey, now we're getting somewhere!

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