[Showcase] Special Forces Elite 4 (Thread 1)

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Awesome! Keep up the good work
Nice.

Though I'm kinda curious, you haven't heard ANYTHING from Lanzarote? Absolutely no contact?
AWESOME MAN.

Good work, keep going.
I'll be your beta guinea pig!

Just played solo and I've already noticed the improvements. The infinite fungal attacks by Infestors and Corruptors seem to have stopped. The buff system is great and works as intended now. No more dupes! I do have to say it's a bit easy after fully buffing one's hero, looking forward to more difficult enemies/waves.

- Like Jason said, search for the phrases "elite 4" or "elite 4 shared", otherwise it will not show up. It's update 1.5's fault.

Findings:
  • After you have the final 16th buff for a unit and continue to buff, you will receive the message that all buffs have been applied, but it will still deduct 10,000 minerals for each additional time you buff. It may add up for some who forgets which unit has all 16 buffs as the icons trail off the unit screen and is unable to be seen.
  • As mentioned before, if you don't fully upgrade your CC before you full upgrade attack speed, the option for CC upgrades disappears.
  • Other than that, I dig the new and improved Special Forces Elite. Keep up the good work Jason!

    Edit:
    @Levenfish - Lanzarote does go on Starcraft and play a few matches (last one just less than a week ago), but he doesn't appear to check the forums.
    I'll be testing it out shortly. Will let you know how things go! :)

    edit: ok first two times I tried to play after it loaded to the hero selection page, got a weird "desync" error and everyone got dropped. after that I tried a solo game which worked, then tried another public game and that went well. still a bit too easy IMO though. the max buff limit should be easily changed to prevent paying extra with a single line of code. now for some things I noticed:

    1. Outback Hunter and Raynor both have weird shooting animation, Outback Hunter doesn't always fire his flames, though it shows it is attacking, and Raynor just looks like he fires to the side instead of his normal turn and shoot. Nova still has weird gliding movement sometimes.

    2. Non-starting heroes that are supposed to be bonus heroes are already there from the start and for example, the roach eggs, don't increase from the starting 2 if you get the reward of "roach eggs found". I would probably just remove those as bonuses and have them there by default. As for bonuses, IMO the cash bonuses seem a bit useless. And a question, how much does biotechnology boost your HP regen?

    3. Does the terran bioplate (+ HP regen for vehicles/ships) apply to all terran vehicles/ships (inc. mech heroes?) since some like the viking (and a few other units like Fenrir) have the upgrade visible on their unit abilities, which goes from grey to color indicated that they received the upgrade. But most vehicles/ships do not have this icon and I was curious if they got the upgrade too as the description for the upgrade stated basically every vehicle/ship should get it. If so, I hope you can add the icon to the appropriate units. Similarly: Fenrir gets the upgrade for the diamondback (range/dmg), but the icon starts off colored (as if he didn't need it), then when you get the upgrade, it disappears. And wraiths start out with a colored in Ace ability - a minor thing in terms of functionality but just some weird details to correct.

    4. Ghost and Spectres Ace ability (psi shield) is still greyed out when they do get Ace ability.

    5. When you select F12 (help), the units that appear is only a partial list and needs some cleaning up (though it's not that much of a priority).

    I find this 1.5 patch annoying in that I can't test this map as an offline single player custom map. For the last version, I used to use the money code and test out each unit individually in terms of their stats and playability in the map.
    I played a special forces game with Lanzarote a couple of weeks ago and he said his computer crashed or something and he lost it. ( the password or something). I suggest U keep trying to get ahold of him.
    he also said he was trying to get into the map by phone with support or something.
    that was a couple of weeks ago. I was really surprised the finally meet the guy playing.
    Nice to see the map getting some well-needed updates. If you need any help with random things I've got some free time and I know the editor fairly well.
    @Berree - Thank you and I plan on it.

    @Levenfish - Thank you as well and no I've not heard anything from Lanzarote. Other players have made claims of contacting him but have not even bothered to redirect him here.

    @AlmoadiN - I appreciate the comment, thank you.

    @Choo - The more guinea pigs I have the better so double thanks to you. I made small tweaks to Infestors and Corruptors so I'm glad to have a report that it seems to be working properly. As far as difficulty is concerned I know what you're saying. I really am trying to come up with something to balance things out. Also, I purposely designed the buff system to allow a player to waste 10k minerals because that's the evilness in me (wuahahaha). The Planetary Fortress Upgrades are also linked to the Protoss Speed Upgrades right now for some reason. I'm not sure how they're linked but once I figure that out the issue will be resolved.

    @Wings - Double thanks to you as well. The desyncing is something I'm putting a lot of effort into researching. It clearly arrived as a side effect from bugs with the 1.5 Arcade implementation. I'm implementing tweaks here and there in hopes of resolving the issue so I'll ask everyone to bear with me for now. The random buff wasting extra minerals is just my evilness as mentioned above. Various unit attack animations and so forth are something I am aware of and know how to fix; I'll be handling these issues soon enough. The unlockable heroes are also something I plan on handling soon enough. I'm still not sure exactly how I want to handle every aspect of them but yeah. The cash bonuses have always been a divided issue in my opinion and something I'll really have to consider. Bio Technology I believe boosts HP and Shield regeneration by like 20 points (I think). I plan on toying with the buffs though so this information may not be useful if I'm accurate. Terran Bioplating is something I have been meaning to research as well so that is already in the works. As far as upgrade visibility and such, that is a part of Buttons and Validators which is a huge thing I plan on working on. It's not necessarily difficult but tedious and time consuming so what you're talking about should be resolved eventually. As a quick note: Ghosts and Specters get Psi Shield with the Psychic buff and it's simply been mislabed for a long time. The F12 (Help) section listings is something I've been planning on taking care of for a while but like the Buttons and Validators will just be tedious and time consuming. Lastly, I have implemented an Admin system which allows me to use various commands in any play mode for testing. It technically shouldn't be too difficult for me to add others to this list for testing if needed.

    @Thandor - I understand what you're saying and that players like yourself have seen Lanzarote. I've also heard rumors, because I still cannot contact Lanzarote myself, about the losing map access for various reasons and all of which seem to change based on the person reporting the rumor. So that leaves me with the following:
    1) I'm to a point with the project now that contacting Lanzarote seems pointless to me.
    2) Based on how much work I've done with this revival project and how much time I wasted trying to contact Lanzarote I'm done with wasting any more time.
    3) Many of the rumors revolve around Lanzarote losing access to the map. If this is true and Blizzard is being contacted to get the published map back then that will be a fruitless endeavor. Obtaining access to Locked Published maps is already a large separate topic in and on its own. To put it simply though: It's just not happening.

    @Ash - Thank you and glad to hear it. I might actually need help with something trigger based but I'm going to try playing with it today and see if I can get it resolved.

    [Update]: I didn't have any time to work on the map yesterday but I hopefully should get some tweaks implemented and published today. I want to thank the community again for all their support and it appears this project is really starting to take off now.

    [Signature]: Find players who are players you can play with and play your way to victory!
    Just realized I could "test" this map in "single player" via guest mode. I got a ghost to have the psi shield working but not sure why it didn't happen last game when I tried it. I think the range of Loki should be increased by one since normal BCs outrange it by 1. Another question, I've noticed a +1 range bonus when they are a hero above level 50 based on agility and a +4 armor bonus if they are based on strength, but I haven't found any bonus for intelligence based heroes. Another weird thing I noticed is that every so often one unit manages to obtain level 61, in my last game I had a fully leveled auto-turret at level 61. Also, for the popping bonuses, +300/500 HP and +100/300 MN are pretty much worthless. I would change the bonuses to a % increase like the buffs. Maybe + 10/20% HP and + 10/20% MN?

    Glad to hear that you're aware of most of the issues and are working at it. I know most of them are just little details that aren't difficult and that they take a significant amount of time to correct. If you need someone to bounce ideas off or to help test, I'm always up for it.
    If you're looking for feedback, it'd be nice if the difficulty scales a little more evenly. The beginning is perfect, then mid-tier enemies aren't very hard, and the end-game enemies are pretty much pointless once you have all your upgrades. It's like 10 minutes of effort followed by 20 minutes of stomping the AI, and then 5 minutes of tough bosses.
    Special Elite Forces 4 has achieved the Arcade Spotlight page in just one day. Nice job guys!
    Cant verify other units, but outback hunter has no hotkeys for his specials.
    Maybe you (Jason) can edit the first post to reflect BRIEFLY these things:

    1. the things that are currently being changed

    2. things planned on being changed but not started yet

    3. things that are still on the maybe list to implement (either due to complexity or controversy)

    I think it will help organize things for you and the community to keep track of all the changes and all the requests/bugs.
    @Wings - I like having the normal BCs outrange the Loki by one because this forces the more durable Loki to the head of the pack and should make him the target of more fire. For now I plan on keeping that range difference in place but I'll keep it in my mind. Also, very nice catch on the weapon range thing. On leveling units the veterancy settings for agility based levels does have a single +1 weapon range bonus in its leveling tree. Not sure what I want to do about that right now. As far as the level 61 thing goes I honestly have no idea on that one. I've certainly played my fair share of games on the map and never seen that happen. I took a quick look at the experience settings and such but don't really see anything that catches my eye. I'll take a further look into that when I can focus more on it and especially if you can continue to replicate the effect. The popping bonuses are also something I really want to rework and your suggestions are good ideas as to how I could redo them. Lastly, thank you again Wings. This is why I plan on keeping this project open with the community.

    @Ash - I appreciate your feedback concerning the difficulty. You basically summed up my feelings on the game into words. How I will be changing this is still something I'm fighting with but I do plan on modifing difficulty somehow.

    @Choo - Excellent update, thank you.

    @Machschau - Thank you for the report. I should have this issue resolved as of my newest update.

    [Update]: I buried myself in game data and went swimming through triggers today. I've reworked a lot of information and attempted to implement fixes which are more behind the scenes. I did a few things the community should notice right away as well. Here is a quick list:
    1) I did extensive modifications to game data and triggers to help prevent desyncing which should provide a noticeable benefit. *Before anyone mentions this; I did delay all the initial starting triggers like vision and the Hero Selection Screen by 1 second on purpose.
    2) I have attempted to resolve all the initial starting hero hotkey issues. I do however need some feedback at this point because the editor or something is being all buggy. See below in the [Feedback Requested] section for more information on this.
    3) I amplified the Admin System which I implemented for my own testing. If you're in game and type -handles then one of two things will happen. Should you be an Admin then a list of all player's and their handles will display for you only. Like most players though, because I'm the only Admin right now, you will have your player name and handle displayed for you only. It's important that I notify the community that I have implemented this for a few reasons. I can use this feature to gain handles and add more Admins which is primarily for map testing or I could tweak the system to implement a type of community "naughty" list like you see in Mafia. I know a lot of players have been requesting a kick system or something along those lines and this could easily give me that ability.
    4) I added some text to the Hero Selection system to help identify the heroes. I would like to add flavor text in the future but my imagination fizzled out today.

    [Coming Up]: As of today’s update I am comfortable with what I’ve done in the trigger editor so far. Sifting through everything in the data editor today raised some serious red flags on the other hand. Some of the issues I found could be causing the buggy issues I'm seeing like the one with my attempted hotkey fix. This leads me to having to take like an entire day and just sit down with the data editor to sift and fix things. (A.K.A. - Long tedious work) I don't plan on addressing the un-lockable units thing just yet but I might just throw in a new hero while I'm working so heavily in the data editor.

    [Feedback Requested]: Any and all feedback is always beneficial and I thank you the community for your assistance always. Right now I am also looking for specific feedback on the following:
    Shadow Walker (hero) Shadow Boost shows E for hotkey but doesn't respond
    Zyrkhan (hero) Graviton Prison shows E for hotkey but doesn't respond
    Alan Schezar (hero) Energy Barrier shows W for hotkey but doesn't respond
    Outback Hunter (hero) Defensive Barrier shows W for hotkey but doesn't respond
    Google searching and such has lead me to issues that point to Comcast security software or something crazy. I don't believe that is the issue here since I've experienced something similar with another map I worked on in the past; for that map I managed to resolve the issue with a few tweaks that I've not tried on these issues yet. Right now I just want to see if this is game based or user based so I just need reports along the lines as to whether others see the abilities hotkeyed but cannot actually use the hotkey.

    [Signature]: Find players who are players you can play with and play your way to victory!

    [Edit]:
    @Wings - That is a good idea, thank you.
    What exactly do you need feedback with? I tested Shadow Walker and Zyrkhan and indeed the E key doesn't work for Shadow Boost or Gravitron Prison. I tried every letter and there is nothing on the keyboard that seems to respond to it. Not sure what I can do on the game side to help with this. A separate question, are there any plans on having a difficulty system or are you just going to have a single level difficulty? Anyone else looking forward to an insane Hell's Worm + Ragnarok?? LOL.
    08/18/2012 10:34 PMPosted by Jason
    @Ash - I appreciate your feedback concerning the difficulty. You basically summed up my feelings on the game into words. How I will be changing this is still something I'm fighting with but I do plan on modifing difficulty somehow.

    I think middle-tier enemies simply need a health boost. They die too quickly but they seem to do the right amount of damage. If you let them whack you for a little bit you still die, but usually they're dead before that happens. A 25% increase in health across the board for middle-tier units I think would make it a little more challenging like the beginning of the game.

    End game will be tricky to balance since players are capable of just getting absolutely crazy stats and units. Tweaking end-game will take a lot of work unfortunately.
    lets see i like the old special forces but I haven't touch 1.5 yet because I'm lazy and all that other crap

    here is my list of sugestions though

    1. remove the +XXX above killed units it is really graphix heave when you use laRGE aoe spells on large numbers ou units, and instead add a help tip that has units kill reward value
    2. add a non hero mother ship please
    3. add a high damage nuclear missile that can be bought at the CC, must be targeted by a ghost, can buy mutiple at a time
    4. add the drakken laser drill as the ultimate base defence, but reduce the range to 30 from the campains 100
    5. ad the rip feild generator as the protosses ultimate defence
    6. keep unit stats high but numbers low 500+ units on map at once is a !@#$% for any graphix cards
    7. no auto cast nukes for final bosses
    8. well that all i can think of until i tr the thing so cya latter
    What's a rip field generator? Unfortunately, you can't really keep numbers down since you can't stop people from building as many buildings as they can based on their minerals or from having a ton of carriers that spawn multiple ships. The nuke is an interesting idea, but I think it would be more fair if it could be bought from the command center and scaled with the command center upgrade. This can be for emergencies (ie. base getting overwhelmed) and be expensive ($20k?) with a long time for restocking/reloading (ie. can only use it once every 15 min). Personally, I think Ragnarok needs that nuke since it kind of sucks without it.
    Not a fan of the idea. Part of what makes Special Forces fun are those moments where your whole team has their back against the Command Center and you're all struggling to survive long enough to push the enemy back. If you can just buy a nuke to clear the field it would take away some of the more interesting scenarios.

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