Zealots, are they useful?

Protoss Discussion
Through my time playing, I noticed how useless zealots are throughout the game.
Compared to terran's marines and zerg's zergling, zealots are completely useless.
The only time I used a zealot was early game(fending off rushes).
It is pretty clear the zealots are a head on melee unit that either gets kited or completely decimated by a frontal attack.

Lets take a look at
marines:
cheap
range attack
stim, can kite
versatile late game in mass
versatile early game in mass
mixed with marauders to soak up damage and keep marines alive or let marines soak up damage


zergling:
cheap
speed upgrade is tier1 and is extremely useful
can surround
fast attack
coupled with any other land unit to quickly surround enemy or run past
faster on creep for a great counter towards reapers
easy to over run an opponent early game


zealot:
strongest melee unit for first 10 min of game(life and damage wise)
charge is somewhat effective vs units running away


I dont see how they belong in a well mixed protoss army.
The charge ability is difficult to use effectively for a surround and gank like zerglings can with their permanent speed boost.
Note that the protoss army is completely range, aside from DT
I have started to get zealots, 1-2 only for early rush fend off.
Sentrys with FF have completely replaced the effectiveness of zealots.
Needless to say by the time you get charge, their usefulness begins to wear off.
So blizz, why keep zealots? Keepsake of SC1?
Give them more abilities so we can actualy make use of them throughout the game.

Zealots are the primary dps of your army, they way outdo stalkers in that department. They are far far from useless. As well they are needed to tank for any high tier unit you might make, especially colossi.

I do wish that charge cost less/came earlier though.
The zealot with the cannons that I saw somewhere on here would be cool.

They're more or less just damage sponges. When you have a lot of zealots rushing an MMM ball they can be really useful to absorb the damage for your larger units like a Colossus or something.

Also they do work against some Marauders, granted if they're in a big army and not a small group of marauders kiting you.

Charge has also been pretty useful to just engage the enemy faster so that my bigger units take less damage since they're further away.

I wouldn't neglect them, especially with the upgrades for ground attack, armor and the such they're great.

And Zerg hates them in the early game =]
Its not about out doing dps. It is about micro with survival over your enemy. Clearly sentrys > zealots.
if you use zealots at meatshields mid game, you will fail. They will die way too fast and are wait too expensive for their use time. Stalkers are a much better option.
Useless as hell for pushing in the early game, especially once you've upgrades to charge. A few chargelots will tear through marines like paper. And in later game, it's far from useless to have some zealots mixed in with other units to intercept melee units and defend your stalkers/whatever else. I used to think zealots were useless too, and tended to just skip them as early as possible for stalkers but I've seen how wrong I was since then.
Useless as hell for pushing in the early game, especially once you've upgrades to charge. A few chargelots will tear through marines like paper. And in later game, it's far from useless to have some zealots mixed in with other units to intercept melee units and defend your stalkers/whatever else. I used to think zealots were useless too, and tended to just skip them as early as possible for stalkers but I've seen how wrong I was since then.


I really doubt you would face chargelots with only marines. Assuming the terran already has concussive rauders out(as they should by the time you tech). Its a simple kite.
Sentrys shine at that point of the game.
zergling:
cheap to produce in numbers
low damage on small surface area fights
speed upgrade is tier1 and is needed in making the zerglings useful
can surround, like any other unit
fast attack that deals low damage, noticeably slower dps than in sc1
faster on creep, like every other zerg unit, only counter towards reapers after speed upgrade
get blocked by wall offs even bronze players can produce


zealot:
strongest melee unit for first 10 min of game(life and damage wise)
charge is somewhat effective vs units running away
can block a ramp with 3 zealots and hold off a huge zerglings army
early zealot pressure can dominate 95% of zerg players
they're early game is so OP that it is getting nerfed
dual attacks make them ideal to counter immortals
charge allows them to have a-move type micro
synconize well with sentie's force field
great no-gas cost tanks




fix'd
their early game proxy rush is getting nefred. Apparently a sentry ca block off ramps too and is still useful later on.a

zergling:
cheap to produce in numbers
low damage on small surface area fights
speed upgrade is tier1 and is needed in making the zerglings useful
can surround, like any other unit
fast attack that deals low damage, noticeably slower dps than in sc1
faster on creep, like every other zerg unit, only counter towards reapers after speed upgrade
get blocked by wall offs even bronze players can produce


zealot:
strongest melee unit for first 10 min of game(life and damage wise)
charge is somewhat effective vs units running away
can block a ramp with 3 zealots and hold off a huge zerglings army
early zealot pressure can dominate 95% of zerg players
they're early game is so OP that it is getting nerfed
dual attacks make them ideal to counter immortals
charge allows them to have a-move type micro
synconize well with sentie's force field
great no-gas cost tanks




fix'd


their early game proxy rush is getting nefred, like I said, first 10 min. Apparently a sentry can block off ramps too and is still useful later on. They also don't last long enough to be meat shields. Considering most units in the game are ranged, gardian shield + stalker >> zealots.
Useless as hell for pushing in the early game, especially once you've upgrades to charge. A few chargelots will tear through marines like paper. And in later game, it's far from useless to have some zealots mixed in with other units to intercept melee units and defend your stalkers/whatever else. I used to think zealots were useless too, and tended to just skip them as early as possible for stalkers but I've seen how wrong I was since then.


I really doubt you would face chargelots with only marines. Assuming the terran already has concussive rauders out(as they should by the time you tech). Its a simple kite.
Sentrys shine at that point of the game.
Point is, if you can tech up fast enough they'll tear through the beginnings of an MM ball if that's what they're going for. It's not impossible to get charge out before a terran player techs up to stronger than ground units or before he has a massive bioball that can't be stopped. I'm not saying that zealots alone are a great strategy, or that they can't be countered but they're far from useless. I've been able to keep terran players from massing up in any effective way using zealots, giving my team mates a chance to come in and steamroll their base because they were busy trying to counter my push.
Useless as hell for pushing in the early game, especially once you've upgrades to charge. A few chargelots will tear through marines like paper. And in later game, it's far from useless to have some zealots mixed in with other units to intercept melee units and defend your stalkers/whatever else. I used to think zealots were useless too, and tended to just skip them as early as possible for stalkers but I've seen how wrong I was since then.


I really doubt you would face chargelots with only marines. Assuming the terran already has concussive rauders out(as they should by the time you tech). Its a simple kite.
Sentrys shine at that point of the game.
Point is, if you can tech up fast enough they'll tear through the beginnings of an MM ball if that's what they're going for. It's not impossible to get charge out before a terran player techs up to stronger than ground units or before he has a massive bioball that can't be stopped. I'm not saying that zealots alone are a great strategy, or that they can't be countered but they're far from useless. I've been able to keep terran players from massing up in any effective way using zealots, giving my team mates a chance to come in and steamroll their base because they were busy trying to counter my push.


Why would you waste so much minerals on teching charge when you can easily get out an immortal?
if you use zealots at meatshields mid game, you will fail. They will die way too fast and are wait too expensive for their use time. Stalkers are a much better option.


They require no gas. Pretty useful haha

Stalkers get utterly creamed by Marauders. Zealots stand more of a chance against them anyways. I'd rather soak up damage with my zealots while they still do pretty good damage.

What's wrong with having Zealots/Stalkers/Sentires.

Tell that to Day9 #168. He has a lot of stalkers/zealots and does great against MMM.

Note that the protoss army is completely range, aside from DT


Err... the protoss have zealots and DT that aren't ranged...

And the Terran army is completely ranged...

I don't see your point or logic by stating the above.

Why would you waste so much minerals on teching charge when you can easily get out an immortal?


Brb focus firing on that 1 Immortal to take it down in a second.
if you use zealots at meatshields mid game, you will fail. They will die way too fast and are wait too expensive for their use time. Stalkers are a much better option.


They require no gas. Pretty useful haha

Stalkers get utterly creamed by Marauders. Zealots stand more of a chance against them anyways. I'd rather soak up damage with my zealots while they still do pretty good damage.

What's wrong with having Zealots/Stalkers/Sentires.

Tell that to Day9 #168. He has a lot of stalkers/zealots and does great against MMM.


What's wrong with having Immortals/Stalkers/Sentires?

Fixd

Why would you waste so much minerals on teching charge when you can easily get out an immortal?


Brb focus firing on that 1 Immortal to take it down in a second.

While you ff on the opponent with your range and win?
if you use zealots at meatshields mid game, you will fail. They will die way too fast and are wait too expensive for their use time. Stalkers are a much better option.


They require no gas. Pretty useful haha

Stalkers get utterly creamed by Marauders. Zealots stand more of a chance against them anyways. I'd rather soak up damage with my zealots while they still do pretty good damage.

What's wrong with having Zealots/Stalkers/Sentires.

Tell that to Day9 #168. He has a lot of stalkers/zealots and does great against MMM.


What's wrong with having 1 Immortal/Stalkers/Sentires vs. Zealots/Stalkers/Sentries

Fixd


Fixed for you =]

Useless as hell for pushing in the early game, especially once you've upgrades to charge. A few chargelots will tear through marines like paper. And in later game, it's far from useless to have some zealots mixed in with other units to intercept melee units and defend your stalkers/whatever else. I used to think zealots were useless too, and tended to just skip them as early as possible for stalkers but I've seen how wrong I was since then.


I really doubt you would face chargelots with only marines. Assuming the terran already has concussive rauders out(as they should by the time you tech). Its a simple kite.
Sentrys shine at that point of the game.
Point is, if you can tech up fast enough they'll tear through the beginnings of an MM ball if that's what they're going for. It's not impossible to get charge out before a terran player techs up to stronger than ground units or before he has a massive bioball that can't be stopped. I'm not saying that zealots alone are a great strategy, or that they can't be countered but they're far from useless. I've been able to keep terran players from massing up in any effective way using zealots, giving my team mates a chance to come in and steamroll their base because they were busy trying to counter my push.


Why would you waste so much minerals on teching charge when you can easily get out an immortal?
Because I don't see it as a waste to beef up the easiest to produce unit I have, especially when at the point I have it available I already have a sizable force of said unit and the way I manage my econ, it doesn't hurt my production in the slightest?

To me it really sounds like you just don't get how to handle zealots to use them effectively.

While you ff on the opponent with your range and win?


Last time I checked, marines and marauders shoot at range, do they not? Keep trolling.
Useless as hell for pushing in the early game, especially once you've upgrades to charge. A few chargelots will tear through marines like paper. And in later game, it's far from useless to have some zealots mixed in with other units to intercept melee units and defend your stalkers/whatever else. I used to think zealots were useless too, and tended to just skip them as early as possible for stalkers but I've seen how wrong I was since then.


I really doubt you would face chargelots with only marines. Assuming the terran already has concussive rauders out(as they should by the time you tech). Its a simple kite.
Sentrys shine at that point of the game.
Point is, if you can tech up fast enough they'll tear through the beginnings of an MM ball if that's what they're going for. It's not impossible to get charge out before a terran player techs up to stronger than ground units or before he has a massive bioball that can't be stopped. I'm not saying that zealots alone are a great strategy, or that they can't be countered but they're far from useless. I've been able to keep terran players from massing up in any effective way using zealots, giving my team mates a chance to come in and steamroll their base because they were busy trying to counter my push.


Why would you waste so much minerals on teching charge when you can easily get out an immortal?
Because I don't see it as a waste to beef up the easiest to produce unit I have, especially when at the point I have it available I already have a sizable force of said unit and the way I manage my econ, it doesn't hurt my production in the slightest?

To me it really sounds like you just don't get how to handle zealots to use them effectively.
like i said before,
zealots are a head on melee unit. Their usefulness dies down quickly as the game progressive.

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