Immortal Sentry All-in Vs Zerg

General Discussion
Well lets see. Protoss were getting trashed by the 11 minute roach max, they asked for help and Zerg just laughed and said l2play. So now Protoss learned how to play and found a hard counter to your roaches. So I hope Protoss tell Zerg how to play, because the counter to this all-in is extremely obvious.

So yeah, even with how bad I am at Zerg I was able to have 50 speedlings, and 25 Hydras, 3bases with 75 drones up by 10:30. I think it would handle this All-in pretty well.
How to hold immortal sentry all in:

What you need:
Lots of creep
Burrow movement and burrow
+1 carapace
A ton of roach/ling
A way to put them on a timer

What do?
Step 1: Bait force fields with burrowy roaches.
Step 2: Engage with everything when they don't have enough sentry energy to make force fields useful, getting a surround if possible.

Additional Notes:
-Once your lings are fighting, there's no going back. Retreating with lings after they are in melee is a sure way to lose. Make sure you don't run your lings in preemptively.
-Make sure the protoss you just beat knows how exactly how much of a !@#$%^ they are for relying on such a gay build.
You can take 4 hatches, tech down every tree and drone to 90 while holding this allin.

Don't forget to build a couple lings to deal with that protis annoyance.

Your bias is showing.
09/13/2012 08:00 PMPosted by dainbramage
I'm fully aware of the PvZ timer. When scouting with your obs you do 2 things. 1st u chrono out the Obs, second you adjust your tech to compnsate for what the remax will bring. You still immortal-sentry allin, the difference is you warp in the stuff to counter their counter.

What on earth? What remax? The immortal-sentry is designed to end the game... that's kind of an integral feature of an all-in. Zerg isn't maxed when you first hit and certainly won't be remaxing. As for what zerg will have? Lings and roaches. The point is hitting before they have infestors, or a large number of mutas, or banelings bombs or whatever else.

Secondly, your obs goes in and you see infestors. Or mutas. Or a baneling nest, and lair and hatch both researching. What do you even do to respond to it? You have no twilight council, so how are you going to stop mutas ruining your economy? You have no robo support bay, so how are you meant to respond to infestors? You're already comitting to sentries and immortals, what are you going to do against banelings bombs? You haven't expanded, so how are you transitioning?

The answer to all of those questions is "you can't". The best - only - response in all of those scenarios is to march your army into their nat/third and kill them. Which is exactly what you would have been doing anyway. Only it's delayed by the build time of an observer so the zerg will have more stuff.

Yes thank you. If you are doing an immortal-sentry all-in there is no need to scout. The important scouting information already happened with the probe that scouted the third going up. Everything else beyond that is meaningless. It will just slow down your all-in and you can not afford to weaken it in any way. You nonstop chrono 3-4 immortals an you move out IMMEDIATELY. No pause, no stop other than doing a warp in every 40 seconds or so. Warp prism then observer come later because they do not help in the fighting directly and they can not be intercepted by zerglings. You do not have chrono energy to spare because the robo is under constant chrono already. You only have chrono for the gates after the robo has stopped building things.

When I tried that immortal sentry all-in it took many practice games to get the timing down perfectly. There can be no error or slow down.
As a protoss player, i've been facing almost exclusively zerg on ladder over the past few days and repeatedly using this one strategy (no scouting). I think my 1v1 match history speaks for itself.

It's powerful. Getting a 360 surround with ling and roaches is the only way I've been taken down with it.
Best way to defend is with roach/lings and mass spines.
People still dont know how to hold this off....
1.) Scout
2.) Build spine crawlers at nat dont take your third
3.) Build speedlings
4.) Win

I pull back, take a third, get colossus to counter both spines and lings, and win. ezpz.

Anyone who suggests not taking a third has no idea what they're talking about.
Scouting. Scouting is always the answer.
You can take 4 hatches, tech down every tree and drone to 90 while holding this allin.

Don't forget to build a couple lings to deal with that protis annoyance.
09/13/2012 01:56 PMPosted by Source
i cut drones at ~8:30

Imagine all the bleeding drones :P
09/13/2012 01:41 PMPosted by gerdro
sooo....don't 3 hatch?

You don't know what you are talking about at all.
Immortal/sentry is just a sexy comp. It's weak to little T1 units, but sentries let you keep smaller units at range. Since Immortals outrange most of the little units that counter them, they get a hell of an edge when force fields prevent stutter steps or charges. Love seeing this comp in action.

As for countering it, the best answer from what I've seen (from zerg) is zergling flanks or the old 2-base muta.

Engage with zerglings in an open area to force an excessive amount of force fields, and when he runs out of them, you rush in - zerglings will demolish the entire comp. You -are- going to need +1 carapace to counteract the effect of +1 attack zealots, or your zerglings will get wrecked, but otherwise this is a battle of positioning. Getting hit by this when he's at your ramp is instant death, since he can force field better at narrow chokes.

2-base muta requires you to dedicate yourself to muta harass. In order for him to defend against mutas, he needs blink stalkers. He also can't both move out -and- defend his base with them either, which prevents him from moving out with immortal/sentry. In the end, he either turtles or he engages in a base race. You actually want a turtle scenario, since then you can grab a third and fourth while constantly prodding, and once your muta count hits 20+, he can't defend with just cannons anymore (he'd need archons/storms). Basically, you use 2-base muta to force the templar tech path while you take more bases than him. A good Protoss will be able to secure a third anyways, but no more (while you collect 4-5 bases). The final engagement will likely be Infestor/Broodlord against Zealot/Archon/Mothership, which will end up being a battle of positioning more than unit comp or number of bases.
I do this push a lot. It loses pretty miserably to 2 base muta basetrade.
It is WAY to powerful. Hitting with 8-10 sentrys 3-4 immortals + rounds of warpins at ~10:30?

Before zerg can get anything more than a roach ling. With the ammount of forcefields the protoss has at thier disposal makes it extremely difficult to hold.

I think its time to consider a nerf to protoss.
My suggestion would be how much energy forcefields cost.
Can increase sentry starting energy to 75 and increase forcefield cost to 75.
And also revert the buff protoss got to thier weapon upgrades.

you know what else is way too powerful?
BL Infestor.

Nurf zerg.
Two way street kiddo.
09/13/2012 08:44 PMPosted by sTsTtzy
Once your lings are fighting, there's no going back. Retreating with lings after they are in melee is a sure way to lose. Make sure you don't run your lings in preemptively.
That's a good tip. Thanks.

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