That same 3 hatch roachling zvp build

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I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure EffOrt just used this build against jaehoon in proleague
Well, I am bringing this thread back to say my goodbyes. If Photon Overcharge remains the way it is now, there is absolutely NOTHING Zerg can do to protoss in the early game. Attempting to punish the toss for never scouting you, for not even scouting to see if you took a 3rd, will invariably result in a hilariously bad loss.
I don't know about that. I never mastered this all in, so I played 5-7 games messing around with it.

Something I discovered by accident, because a toss sent his probe into my main and just wouldn't leave. So I never took my gas till like 19-20 or so.

Anyways I didn't double gas, I just hit at 8:15 with like 5 roaches and 25 speedlings or something like that. 24-26 drones

I killed the forge and a few sentries and was held back. The toss was going for an immortal sentry push. I couldn't get into his main but I killed a forge a cannon 3 sentries and I think a gateway?? not sure.

Something extremely interesting happened......

I was able to drone up my 3 bases to with only 1 gas.

I didn't have lair only speed and slow roach.

But since his forge was gone he didn't have +1 he didn't want to push out without it.

This bought me time to get 60+ drones and 10 spines.

From here you can go spire teck...... and play a normal game.

So I'm not 100% sure about Photon Overcharge ruining this I suspect the 8:15 timing instead of 7:45 --- to be viable.

Your goal is just to delay there aggression and drone up then spine up.

Anyways you get into an interesting position doing this.

Something to consider anyways -- Idea is that if it's an FFE, you can kill the forge at the 8:15 timing and a few sentries delaying there push.

If it's 2 gate expo, I don't know how much value you would get out of killing 2 of his gates?? I'm not sure if it would work or not.

Again the point is, the teck he places at the front you should always be able to kill.

You should also be able to kill a few sentries cost efficiently. ---- You do all this while banking minerals, and getting a 2nd queen while your attacking.

You might be able to use this to get into playable positions ***ALL THE TIME***

needs more research
You might be able to use this to get into playable positions ***ALL THE TIME***

you did it once
that doesn't mean it'll happen all the time.

this is still super all-in. the 3rd hatch doesn't make it less all-in. If you do absurd damage yes you can possibly transition out of it (by which i mean if you kill his natural you might be ahead but not necessarily)

however, i don't have a lot of experience in following up after failing, because it doesn't usually fail.
I've had games where they eventually cleaned up my attack with void rays but lost basically all of their probes, and yes in that case you are golden because his voids can't even deny your 3rd.

doing this in heart of the swarm is a lost cause. in WoL, by all means keep going all-in and keep winning.

making units early to kill a building in the toss wall does NOT put the zerg ahead.
08/09/2014 09:51 AMPosted by avilboeman
You might be able to use this to get into playable positions ***ALL THE TIME***

you did it once
that doesn't mean it'll happen all the time.

this is still super all-in. the 3rd hatch doesn't make it less all-in. If you do absurd damage yes you can possibly transition out of it (by which i mean if you kill his natural you might be ahead but not necessarily)

however, i don't have a lot of experience in following up after failing, because it doesn't usually fail.
I've had games where they eventually cleaned up my attack with void rays but lost basically all of their probes, and yes in that case you are golden because his voids can't even deny your 3rd.

doing this in heart of the swarm is a lost cause. in WoL, by all means keep going all-in and keep winning.

making units early to kill a building in the toss wall does NOT put the zerg ahead.


The new free wins is the 2 base speedling all-in before he gets a nexus cannon :P
It still works against overcharge?

Thats pretty pathetic on the Protoss side of things. The amount of greed required to make this work... lol
08/10/2014 10:30 PMPosted by MOOSEKNUCKLE
08/09/2014 09:51 AMPosted by avilboeman
...
you did it once
that doesn't mean it'll happen all the time.

this is still super all-in. the 3rd hatch doesn't make it less all-in. If you do absurd damage yes you can possibly transition out of it (by which i mean if you kill his natural you might be ahead but not necessarily)

however, i don't have a lot of experience in following up after failing, because it doesn't usually fail.
I've had games where they eventually cleaned up my attack with void rays but lost basically all of their probes, and yes in that case you are golden because his voids can't even deny your 3rd.

doing this in heart of the swarm is a lost cause. in WoL, by all means keep going all-in and keep winning.

making units early to kill a building in the toss wall does NOT put the zerg ahead.


The new free wins is the 2 base speedling all-in before he gets a nexus cannon :P
i am insulted that people actually lose to that
08/11/2014 10:36 AMPosted by avilboeman
i am insulted that people actually lose to that


I'm insulted when Protoss players lose to anything before the 12 minute mark, other than maybe some tricky 7 pools (which turn into macro games anyways because Protoss >_>)
It actually works through Master league, if I'm not mistaken, and pretty difficult to hold. You hit with around 40 speedlings when the most he can really have is a zealot, sentry, and mscore. If I see a probe scout running around, I fake a 3rd and then cancel it for lings right before I hit.
08/12/2014 02:42 AMPosted by MOOSEKNUCKLE
It actually works through Master league, if I'm not mistaken, and pretty difficult to hold. You hit with around 40 speedlings when the most he can really have is a zealot, sentry, and mscore. If I see a probe scout running around, I fake a 3rd and then cancel it for lings right before I hit.
it is not pretty difficult to hold.

you only die to it when you only have 1 gateway and only 1 unit, and that unit happens to be the same one that is holding the gap in the wall and dies immediately.

if you re-inforce the wall with buildings and have enough damage units to actually kill lings while they are working on the wall, you hold easily. it helps if your wall isn't made mostly of pylons and weak things.
That same 3 hatch roachling zvp build

Doesn't work for many reasons. Protoss have a plethora of tools to handle such scenarios.
i know. fury, who bumped, still plays WOL

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