Anyone else think HotS has balance issues?

Zerg Discussion
I'm talking about the new units. A lot of them seem, dare I say, overpowered. Swarm hosts are like brood lords, except now they require detection and you can get them very early in a game. Widow mines are basically the same thing - they require detection, are somewhat cheap even early game, and can destroy units pretty easily. We're going to start seeing a lot of widow mine and swarm host rushes before players can properly get detection out without changing their build orders, not to mention the enormous damage they can do.

I'm not really liking how these new units work, they just seem kind of overpowered and imbalanced. Starcraft II always had some balance issues I guess, particularly with late game protoss which a lot of people seem to complain about, but now this is just getting a bit ridiculous.
ITS A BETA, ITS MEANT TO FIND OUT HOW TO BALANCE THE GAME.
11/11/2012 02:05 PMPosted by Vest
ITS A BETA, ITS MEANT TO FIND OUT HOW TO BALANCE THE GAME.


Wow, I had no idea :O You're so much smarter than me.

Anyway, I posted this to talk about how things can be balanced with this beta. So if anyone has any useful suggestions or comments, that would be cool.
SilentNight

I'm talking about the new units. A lot of them seem, dare I say, overpowered. Swarm hosts are like brood lords, except now they require detection and you can get them very early in a game. Widow mines are basically the same thing - they require detection, are somewhat cheap even early game, and can destroy units pretty easily. We're going to start seeing a lot of widow mine and swarm host rushes before players can properly get detection out without changing their build orders, not to mention the enormous damage they can do.


I recently posted a thread about how the Swarm Host is underpowered. Zerg already has the smallest army of all three races. A macro zerg will have 70-80 drones, plus you need 4 or 5 Queens, so that's 10 supply. If you make Swarm Hosts, you're just investing in dead supply. It's not a siege unit because it can be easily denied. Most of the time, the Locusts die before they do anything. It's not like a siege tank that always hits the target. A siege weapon is supposed to force your opponent out of his base to deal with it. A Swarm Host is basically just a sign saying "hit me here." It also fails at base defense. It doesn't do AoE damage like the Lurker that used to punish players for clumping up units. If anything, the Swarm Host promoted death-ball style playing.
11/11/2012 02:28 PMPosted by SilentNight
ITS A BETA, ITS MEANT TO FIND OUT HOW TO BALANCE THE GAME.


Wow, I had no idea :O You're so much smarter than me.

Anyway, I posted this to talk about how things can be balanced with this beta. So if anyone has any useful suggestions or comments, that would be cool.


Im glad the zerg finally got a decently timed siege unit/siege breaker. Something to help with those crippling contains. Widow mines seem scary but i think they will really deter deathball type strats vs terrans and kinda force you to play differently. All in all i think the new units are aiming toward less deathballs because if you do this widow mine will annihilate it or those oracles will snipe all ur tech etc.
OK, maybe I should rephrase what I said. I think they are overpowered early in the game. I mean, I think if zergs got them later in the game when other players could have a better time countering it, it would be fine, but because you can get them so early before most players have detection out, games just end up like... well... this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHh3BugVvbE

My argument is that it encourages cheese builds like this that aren't really balanced. Look at how difficult it is for a protoss player to deal with cheese rushes like this.
11/11/2012 03:41 PMPosted by SilentNight
My argument is that it encourages cheese builds like this that aren't really balanced. Look at how difficult it is for a protoss player to deal with cheese rushes like this.


People would sometimes do Lurker drops in Brood War, but in the end, people learned how to stop cheese. You can't get enough Swarm Hosts out in the early game to really do any damage, unless the other person has no idea how to stop them. It just depends on good scouting. It's no worse than zealot rushes or bunker rushes.
i honestly thought blizzard started trolling once they buffed widow mines that much.
11/13/2012 10:35 AMPosted by kavinh
i honestly thought blizzard started trolling once they buffed widow mines that much.


Pretty much. Mutalisk builds and any kind of ling/bane/(roach) allin are pretty much dead :(
I think HOTS is more balanced than WOL, especially for Zerg--they have finally given the zerg midgame the buffs its needed for YEARS.
dat widow mine drop at 6:30 minute mark man :O

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