Remove immortal please

General Discussion
The immortal needs to be removed for the exact same reason that warhounds were removed: they make terran mech completely unpractical. Just like how the warhound forced protoss to go zealot archon every game, the immortal forces terran to go bio. It's the easiest tech switch to make immortals since every top end toss goes robo first for colossus against terran always and zerg most of the time.

Some other suggestions for game diversity,
decrease reaper cost to 50 minerals, 25 gas
decrease widow mine range to 4 and add re-arm cost of 25 minerals
increase base snipe damage to 30
increase ultralisk hp to 550
allow ultralisk to burrow charge with the research of burrow (no research needed from ultralisk cavern)
double burrow charge speed for ultralisks
allow roaches to move while burrowed with research of burrow (no tunneling claws research needed)
increase nydus worm hp from 300 to 600
add nexus ability to heal shields on units and structures with energy once cyber core is up
remove mothership attack (right now it makes reaper harass, banshees w/o cloak and zerg busts unviable, hence decreasing game diversity)
No. I will not allow it.
Uh no
If only Terran had ways of countered the immortals hardened shields.
Ghosts > Immortals.

/thread
I lol'd

OP is bad and I hope you get hit by a truck. Like a slow moving truck, just enough to cause emotional trauma, not physical endangerment.
The immortal needs to be removed for the exact same reason that warhounds were removed: they make terran mech completely unpractical. Just like how the warhound forced protoss to go zealot archon every game, the immortal forces terran to go bio. It's the easiest tech switch to make immortals since every top end toss goes robo first for colossus against terran always and zerg most of the time.

Some other suggestions for game diversity,
decrease reaper cost to 50 minerals, 25 gas
decrease widow mine range to 4 and add re-arm cost of 25 minerals
increase base snipe damage to 30
increase ultralisk hp to 550
allow ultralisk to burrow charge with the research of burrow (no research needed from ultralisk cavern)
double burrow charge speed for ultralisks
allow roaches to move while burrowed with research of burrow (no tunneling claws research needed)
increase nydus worm hp from 300 to 600
add nexus ability to heal shields on units and structures with energy once cyber core is up
remove mothership attack (right now it makes reaper harass, banshees w/o cloak and zerg busts unviable, hence decreasing game diversity)
There is a glaring flaw in your reasoning.

What is the alternative for Protoss? In PvT, not going robo, implies aggression with chargelots at 10 mins against bio. And against Mech, not going Robo is suicide. Not getting Immortals against Mech is ALSO suicide because Protoss cannot hope to fight any mech armies without it... Stalkers SUCK against it, and Zealots melt to blue-flame hellions (battle-mode or not). Stargate is not viable against BOTH bio and mech, and Twilight council tech is too weak overall, aside from Parting's 10 min chargelot on 8 gates against 2 base 3 rax medivac.

Against Zerg, without Immortals, Protoss just dies to mass roach (esp the 11 min stephano style roach max) unless he commits to double stargate which has its own set of challenges...
Warhounds were removed because they filled the same role as Marauders and were cost effective versus every ground unit.

Protoss does not have another unit with the same role as the Immortal, and Immortals are solidly countered by a variety of units.
Warhounds were removed because they filled the same role as Marauders and were cost effective versus every ground unit.

Protoss does not have another unit with the same role as the Immortal, and Immortals are solidly countered by a variety of units.
+1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSCcIv_dLlg
ghosts and rines dont tend to care about immortals.
nerf hardended shields.
You're a Terran player complaining about immortals... make some marines maybe?

I don't necessarily agree with your suggestion on reapers, but I think they are pretty useless as is.
tenftcoke

The immortal needs to be removed for the exact same reason that warhounds were removed: they make terran mech completely unpractical.


LOL The warhound destroys every single unit in the game. It's worst than the infestors. Aside from its powerful attack, it is very tough to kill. It can also attack air and ground units. Immortals aren't like that. Just be thankful you don't have to deal with that ugly looking unit.
11/08/2012 11:47 PMPosted by Espada
It can also attack air and ground units.
I agree with what you said, but this part is incorrect: Warhounds could not attack air in the beta, but they countered every ground unit in the game, lol!
11/08/2012 10:13 PMPosted by PotatoLiSK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSCcIv_dLlg
A delightful alternative to the traditional "NO".

Also, the warhound is out because in part, it countered everything, i'm surprised no one linked to the video of them beating every ground unit in the game (banelings don't count) because i think you will find immortals are far less versatile.
I'll try to hit on every post

Ghosts > Immortals.

/thread


You don't get enough gas to go ghosts and mech at the same time.

Warhounds were removed because they filled the same role as Marauders and were cost effective versus every ground unit.

Protoss does not have another unit with the same role as the Immortal, and Immortals are solidly countered by a variety of units.


Immortals can be countered by many units, none of which are mech. Which is why terrans never go mech against protoss.

The immortal needs to be removed for the exact same reason that warhounds were removed: they make terran mech completely unpractical. Just like how the warhound forced protoss to go zealot archon every game, the immortal forces terran to go bio. It's the easiest tech switch to make immortals since every top end toss goes robo first for colossus against terran always and zerg most of the time.

Some other suggestions for game diversity,
decrease reaper cost to 50 minerals, 25 gas
decrease widow mine range to 4 and add re-arm cost of 25 minerals
increase base snipe damage to 30
increase ultralisk hp to 550
allow ultralisk to burrow charge with the research of burrow (no research needed from ultralisk cavern)
double burrow charge speed for ultralisks
allow roaches to move while burrowed with research of burrow (no tunneling claws research needed)
increase nydus worm hp from 300 to 600
add nexus ability to heal shields on units and structures with energy once cyber core is up
remove mothership attack (right now it makes reaper harass, banshees w/o cloak and zerg busts unviable, hence decreasing game diversity)
There is a glaring flaw in your reasoning.

What is the alternative for Protoss? In PvT, not going robo, implies aggression with chargelots at 10 mins against bio. And against Mech, not going Robo is suicide. Not getting Immortals against Mech is ALSO suicide because Protoss cannot hope to fight any mech armies without it... Stalkers SUCK against it, and Zealots melt to blue-flame hellions (battle-mode or not). Stargate is not viable against BOTH bio and mech, and Twilight council tech is too weak overall, aside from Parting's 10 min chargelot on 8 gates against 2 base 3 rax medivac.

Against Zerg, without Immortals, Protoss just dies to mass roach (esp the 11 min stephano style roach max) unless he commits to double stargate which has its own set of challenges...


No alternative for protoss is needed. They will continue to open robo first for fast obs and colossus. Lol 10 min Chargelots? What league are you getting this strategy from?

Protoss shouldn't be able to fight mech armies straight on. Mech armies take the longest to build, are the most expensive and slow moving, and take the longest to tech to with the exception of T3 zerg. To balance these drawbacks, mech armies should beat any toss ground army in a straight on fight. Good game design would force protoss to attack before mech tech, tech to carriers or gain positional advantages through harassment against mech in order to win. As of now, protoss ground armies have every advantage over mech since immortals come way before siege tech. A research requirement for hardened shields at the very least would help balance the matchup.

Stephano's max roach strat isn't viable, precisely because protoss either go blind stargate play or immortal all in timing pushes. I think you misinterpret whatever game you were watching: the protoss doesn't go stargate to counter the roaches, it's zerg that has to react to early stargate play by getting an early overlord scout, extra queens and spores. And funny how you mention parting, he wins every PvZ when he gets to choose the map using his 2 base immortal timing push. It's one of the most imbalanced strategies in the current metagame.
Ghosts > Immortals.

/thread


Yeah I still don't understand why some terrans refuse to make ghosts against protoss...
11/12/2012 10:09 PMPosted by Pause
Protoss absolutely need Immortals to fend off those overly cost efficient Roaches. Roaches DPS/hp armor + upgrades (+2 ) per cost is INSANE!


My assumption would be that if immortals were removed, they would replace it with another anti armor unit in the same position in the tech tree.

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