I guess no one remembers the truth

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Oh the Irony that it's the Terrans !@#$%in'

Guess everyone saw that coming though.
11/13/2012 08:58 PMPosted by FinnTheHuman


This is a load of junk... You make it seem like terran was the only race that was adjusted in 2010. You don't point out things like how they lowered void ray damage or increased roach range, both during the first year. There have been numerous changes to all races since this game came out.


Nah, he's right. Terran was broken as hell.


Honestly, I thought that this was all the OP wanted to hear ^.

Doesn't mean that the infestor can't be rebalanced with zerg though :)
You resist. But you will fail.

The cycle continues.
WOL is done in term of balancing. Blizzard is just going to wait for HOTS for a new round of balancing.
I guess if we are trying not to be selective with our memory (OP) we could recall some Terran excuses for being broken:
-Terran pros were better
-Terran was beatable it just required lots of skill
-Protoss and Zerg just needed to use all their units more effectively
-While tournaments were mostly populated by Terrans other races could still win

Funny I think I've encountered a few Zerg players using these same arguments to defend their race. It is a strikingly similar situation; however, everything is OK because Zerg players deserve to be dominating because its their turn.

And finally I just want you to know OP that Zerg players complained more than any other race for a good year and a half. Their idol, Idra, was even the face of QQ. They will forever be the queens of b1tchiness in my opinion.
11/14/2012 01:04 AMPosted by FajitaEata
-Terran pros were better


true

11/14/2012 01:04 AMPosted by FajitaEata
-Terran was beatable it just required lots of skill


kind of true, but rather the strategy they would have to use, remember back when terran was strong ages and ages ago, the state of the game was still being developed as far as strats and even mechanics were concerned, this was because the game wasn't really that old back then.

11/14/2012 01:04 AMPosted by FajitaEata
-Protoss and Zerg just needed to use all their units more effectively


true, probably needs a lil elaborating tho.

11/14/2012 01:04 AMPosted by FajitaEata
-While tournaments were mostly populated by Terrans other races could still win


true, there were plenty of tvt going on then :L, a matchup u never rly see these days.
11/13/2012 08:24 PMPosted by fingrknitter

I never said that they refused to find solutions. Ever. At any time. As I said in the first paragraph when zerg couldn't hold off the 2 base all in they started to get 3 bases and then protoss was on the back foot and had to change their play style. Starcraft is a game about countering what your opponent is doing with good micro and macro. Since terran was nerfed the most they technically changed their play style a lot more. Im not saying the other races didn't change at all they just didn't change as much (what I said in my original post may contradict this but this is sort of what I was trying to get at).


Hey I very much appreciate this very nice reply :) Very well mannered seriously, the fact you said you may be contradicting yourself; honestly you have to be like one of the top ten posters here and for this reply number one no joke. I apologize sincerely for my post and I hope everyone who read mine reads this one.

I am sorry for getting so annoyed and blowing up at you, it is just that I am sick of people acting as if their "races" are different; this often will happen with people who play terran just for the fact that, I am sure not very many people "switched" into terran as opposed to zerg and protoss as terran has become more balanced and the ones left REALLY want terran to do well because they won't hop the band wagon and stay dedicated.

Again I am sorry, it just seemed a lot different in your first post, I just don't like the "terran innovates" more preaching because terran has had the most options, hence all the nerfs. Blizzard isn't out to get them: can't say the same about hots JKJK XD

Again though, thank you for being so patient with me :) I usually try to stay composed and I blew up at the wrong person and i feel bad for it :S Keep posting, you do the forums a favor with your exaltedness ;)

He He all good.
Back then
Terran OP, Zerg and Protoss pros still managed to win in major tournaments like GSL open 1,2.

Now
MLG ZVZ finals, last season GSL a Zerg won, this season GSL 8/9 Zerg advance from the ro16.

I don't think its the same.
11/11/2012 02:59 PMPosted by IllIllIllIll
After several Terran nerfs, and the Terran players no longer had the inherent advantage in every game, the cries of "Terran is underpowered", and "Why did you nerf us so many times?", and "This game is hard now" began to flood these forums. The game was approaching a balanced state, but that didn't matter.


Terran players where used to getting free wins. Now that they where required to exert some skill to win they ironically didn't have the required skill to do so! That is where the QQ comes from. There was a time after the balance changes where terrans where Ezpzfabrezzy, but thanks to a steep learning curve the terrans I encounter are now formidable opponents, even in the late game.

Btw - I hear "infestor OP" bull!@#$ all the time. Dumb***es. Build a %^&*ing ghost.
11/14/2012 10:09 AMPosted by tBz
After several Terran nerfs, and the Terran players no longer had the inherent advantage in every game, the cries of "Terran is underpowered", and "Why did you nerf us so many times?", and "This game is hard now" began to flood these forums. The game was approaching a balanced state, but that didn't matter.


Terran players where used to getting free wins. Now that they where required to exert some skill to win they ironically didn't have the required skill to do so! That is where the QQ comes from. There was a time after the balance changes where terrans where Ezpzfabrezzy, but thanks to a steep learning curve the terrans I encounter are now formidable opponents, even in the late game.

Btw - I hear "infestor OP" bull!@#$ all the time. Dumb***es. Build a %^&*ing ghost.


Build enough ghosts to EMP or snipe 30+ infestors, eh? Do you really thiunk that would work? Be honest this time.

MEanwhile, I'm going to try and convince MKP to 'exert more skill."
But zerg never actually used infestors during that time period
instead they just went ling bling muta, roach hydra, or mass muta all the time
now they are actually being diverse, added to a ton of Terran nerfs=me sad :(
I think you are confusing release with 3 months after release. At release 4 warp gate all ins, mass roaches and baneling busts were dominating in the US. 3 control group zergling pressure was still dominating in korea. A few months after release Terrans realized that they had the most diverse group of opening options and that some of the 1v1 maps were extremely exploitable by Terran units. 1v1 is rarely about units being overpowered, it is more about how you can exploit maps and how you can apply early pressure to force your enemy to react to you instead of controlling the pace.
11/14/2012 11:03 AMPosted by Sneegy
Build enough ghosts to EMP or snipe 30+ infestors, eh? Do you really thiunk that would work? Be honest this time.


You do know that 1 ghost can counter multiple infestors, correct? With just snipe, 1 ghost counters up to 4 infestors alone - a 200/100 2 supply unit beating 400/600 and 8 supply. With EMP that number can increase dramatically.

Even if you don't build enough ghosts to outright counter all of the infestors, even a few can help greatly.
11/14/2012 08:19 PMPosted by GameOfDrones
Build enough ghosts to EMP or snipe 30+ infestors, eh? Do you really thiunk that would work? Be honest this time.


You do know that 1 ghost can counter multiple infestors, correct? With just snipe, 1 ghost counters up to 4 infestors alone - a 200/100 2 supply unit beating 400/600 and 8 supply. With EMP that number can increase dramatically.

Even if you don't build enough ghosts to outright counter all of the infestors, even a few can help greatly.


This might be the only time I agree with Drone

Terran has trouble with Zerg's Early game but can win Lategame
While Protoss can usually pull some kind of sneaky all in and win early game, but literally can't stand up to Zerg late game.

I do think both Protoss and Terran need better Options vs Zerg currently, but if you're gonna argue argue right. EMP has effectively the same if not slightly larger range than fungal so there's no excuse not to use ghosts vs Infestors.
Build enough ghosts to EMP or snipe 30+ infestors, eh? Do you really thiunk that would work? Be honest this time.


You do know that 1 ghost can counter multiple infestors, correct? With just snipe, 1 ghost counters up to 4 infestors alone - a 200/100 2 supply unit beating 400/600 and 8 supply. With EMP that number can increase dramatically.

Even if you don't build enough ghosts to outright counter all of the infestors, even a few can help greatly.
emp hit 4 infestor lol what? emp only outrange fungal by 0.5 how they hell can u hit 4 infestor. not mentioning fungal will land on ghost prevent them from moving.
watch bomber vs leenock, few ghost doesnt do !@#$ against infestor u need at least 1:2 ratio


You do know that 1 ghost can counter multiple infestors, correct? With just snipe, 1 ghost counters up to 4 infestors alone - a 200/100 2 supply unit beating 400/600 and 8 supply. With EMP that number can increase dramatically.

Even if you don't build enough ghosts to outright counter all of the infestors, even a few can help greatly.


This might be the only time I agree with Drone

Terran has trouble with Zerg's Early game but can win Lategame
While Protoss can usually pull some kind of sneaky all in and win early game, but literally can't stand up to Zerg late game.

I do think both Protoss and Terran need better Options vs Zerg currently, but if you're gonna argue argue right. EMP has effectively the same if not slightly larger range than fungal so there's no excuse not to use ghosts vs Infestors.
no terran cant win zerg late game unless u have 20 ravens to hsm entire air and cross ur finger that zerg will not carpet fungal. terran late game vs zerg is same as protoss lategame vs zerg. protoss do have late game unit vs zerg carrier archon and vortex. coin flip like terran but it still not instant loss once zerg hit lategame
After several Terran nerfs, and the Terran players no longer had the inherent advantage in every game, the cries of "Terran is underpowered", and "Why did you nerf us so many times?", and "This game is hard now" began to flood these forums. The game was approaching a balanced state, but that didn't matter.


Terran players where used to getting free wins. Now that they where required to exert some skill to win they ironically didn't have the required skill to do so! That is where the QQ comes from. There was a time after the balance changes where terrans where Ezpzfabrezzy, but thanks to a steep learning curve the terrans I encounter are now formidable opponents, even in the late game.

Btw - I hear "infestor OP" bull!@#$ all the time. Dumb***es. Build a %^&*ing ghost.
what a !@#$ing genius, u really should tell korean code s terran that. why didnt u think of a counter to ghost before snipe 45 damage?why did u cried to blizzard like us terran? you know what every terran think about zerg back then? i hear snipe OP bull!@#$ all the time. dasses build a %^-*ing nydus worm like darkforce, who beat immvp mass ghost
Terrans who refuse to mass medivacs or train ghosts in ZvT are like Zerg who refuse to use Hydras or Ultras in ZvP. There's a place and time for these units, you'd be surprised how well things can work out.
11/11/2012 03:08 PMPosted by FinnTheHuman
To be fair, back when Terrans were dominating, a lot of them were really good players. You cannot deny that NaDa, MMA, Mvp, BoxeR and Lee Jung-Hoon are/were amazing players. Back then, how many amazing Zergs and Protoss were there?


boxer lost to 7 zergs in a row before he won a game against one and that was before the queen/overlord buff that all the terrains started whining about.


This might be the only time I agree with Drone

Terran has trouble with Zerg's Early game but can win Lategame
While Protoss can usually pull some kind of sneaky all in and win early game, but literally can't stand up to Zerg late game.

I do think both Protoss and Terran need better Options vs Zerg currently, but if you're gonna argue argue right. EMP has effectively the same if not slightly larger range than fungal so there's no excuse not to use ghosts vs Infestors.
no terran cant win zerg late game unless u have 20 ravens to hsm entire air and cross ur finger that zerg will not carpet fungal. terran late game vs zerg is same as protoss lategame vs zerg. protoss do have late game unit vs zerg carrier archon and vortex. coin flip like terran but it still not instant loss once zerg hit lategame


except protoss dominate mid game cause roaches become essentially useless against any deathball with a few immortals or even a single colossi in them where as zergs need a reasonable amount around 5+ to actually do any sufficient damage. and unless infestors are paired with them a toss can easily sucide blink stalkers to trade and reinforce faster.

It's even stated by blizzard that terran has the strongest mid game and ability to harass in one of their posts regarding balance, u can't use end game balance as an excuse considering for 80% of games the game ends before a player maxes out not to mention terrains have the best early to mid game cause of their cost efficiency and their ability to sustain an economy with less scvs meaning more pop due to mules. Both zerg and protosses can't do that and have to waste a large chunk of their supply saturating bases to keep their armies going.

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