Accidentally clicked Zerg yesterday

Protoss Discussion
you can wall off 6 pools at your natural in time. when you scout the early pool, cut probes and get your cannon/gate up. plug with a probe until you have the minerals to build a pylon that blocks the wall when he comes. it's kind of tedious, but you have to know how to wall on every possible base. there's no excuse not to learn.
In response to 10 pool, just finish your wall-off/cannon before nexus. Block the entryway with a probe and don't move it no matter what -- I've lost games where I was trying to chase away the scouting drone and 6 lings ran in the second my probe left an opening.
isn't -10 pool what people generally recommend when u scout a FFE? well if u want to mess it up
12/04/2012 09:31 AMPosted by kavinh
isn't -10 pool what people generally recommend when u scout a FFE? well if u want to mess it up


Yes, so i would say that if they see you expand early (as in they scouted early and you know that they know what your doing) ... u should expect early aggression cause in the end the little things u have to cut to ensure you don't die shouldn't cause you to lose outright. And if they don't scout you early then you can rest somewhat easier unless they are cheesing.
12/04/2012 09:44 AMPosted by DeadlyCraft
isn't -10 pool what people generally recommend when u scout a FFE? well if u want to mess it up


Yes, so i would say that if they see you expand early (as in they scouted early and you know that they know what your doing) ... u should expect early aggression cause in the end the little things u have to cut to ensure you don't die shouldn't cause you to lose outright. And if they don't scout you early then you can rest somewhat easier unless they are cheesing.


What? No.

You have to decide to 10-pool before you can scout a FFE.

10-pool is terrible against a standard FFE because the protoss should be able to finish the wall-off and stop the zerglings without damage.

10-pool is only good against a FFE if you went for the forge in main.

If you scout FFE there isn't a way to reactively kill it unless the protoss player did a bad/greedy opening or reacts badly to cheese.

6/7/8 pool kills the forge and pylon at the natural. 9/10/11/12 pool prevents a really fast expand against a forge in main, but doesn't do much against a normal ffe. 11/12/13 pool can actually fail to do anything on some maps even if the protoss goes forge > nexus > cannon.

Really though anyone below platinum has really bad walls when they FFE. I was trying to help my bronze zerg friend learn more about ZvP and every time I tried to demonstrate something I'd just be like "if you scout them doing ____ it's unsafe so you just build zerglings and they die". I had to switch to a platinum account and still managed to only have about a 50/50 shot of protoss players that don't die to zerglings from a standard 14 pool.

That's not all. He's complaining about the race's fundamentals as well--how Zerg can get three bases four minutes into the game having built only one tech structure, how they can Drone almost freely (except versus all-ins), etc.


Yeah it's mostly the case that PvZ is very unforgiving. A single mistake, like having your zealot off by a pixel, can cost you the game to a zergling run-by.

The MSC at least brought down the cheese potential of zerg a little, but it's still there. Honestly I'm not sure why they haven't forced zerg to make an overlord before pool, similar to how they required depot before pool. It wouldn't matter much at higher levels, but it'd be big for casual gamers, since it removes some of the early game cheese. It's similar to nerfing the reaper rush for terran.
12/02/2012 07:39 PMPosted by Dryhumper
you can wall off 6 pools at your natural in time. when you scout the early pool, cut probes and get your cannon/gate up. plug with a probe until you have the minerals to build a pylon that blocks the wall when he comes. it's kind of tedious, but you have to know how to wall on every possible base. there's no excuse not to learn.

Er - this is news to me. Have you been up against "delayed 6 pools" before?

When you scout a 6pool you're supposed to build a cannon in your mineral line, no?
Posted by DeadlyCraft
isn't -10 pool what people generally recommend when u scout a FFE? well if u want to mess it up

Yes, so i would say that if they see you expand early (as in they scouted early and you know that they know what your doing) ... u should expect early aggression cause in the end the little things u have to cut to ensure you don't die shouldn't cause you to lose outright. And if they don't scout you early then you can rest somewhat easier unless they are cheesing.

What? No.

You have to decide to 10-pool before you can scout a FFE.

10-pool is terrible against a standard FFE because the protoss should be able to finish the wall-off and stop the zerglings without damage


You misunderstood my point however nothing you said was invalid. You are correct when it comes to 10 pools you usually cannot scout fast enough to decide that. What i was talking about was making choices based on what you know your opponent knows.
12/04/2012 10:19 PMPosted by TheFiend
Honestly I'm not sure why they haven't forced zerg to make an overlord before pool, similar to how they required depot before pool. It wouldn't matter much at higher levels, but it'd be big for casual gamers, since it removes some of the early game cheese. It's similar to nerfing the reaper rush for terran.


I fail to understand a lot of why they continue to let zerg do the things they do. The 6 pool is supposedly zergs version of cannon rush yet a protoss MUST make a pylon....then a forge...then cannons.

A zerg makes a pool then rushes lings......A zerg gets out lings by 2:25....Its well past 3:00 before a protoss can start dropping cannons.....Not to mention a 6 pool costs the zerg......150 minerals if it fails.

A failed cannon rush is 100 for the pylon.....150 for the forge......then 150 for each cannon.......way more then 150 minerals.

The fundamentals of zerg is why people are having such a hard time with zerg in most matchups.....Its not that I have issues with each race being different.....I get that......

What I have a problem with is that terran and protoss have to build BUILDINGS in order to make stuff.......

Zerg has to make ONE building and then they can make unlimited stuff....and their supply comes from overlords who can serve multiple functions....ie scouting, spreading creep, dropping, morphing to something else, issuing changelings........I mean the list is endless as to how zerg is different fundamentally from protoss and terran.....so much so that IMO it breaks many matchups because of the so vastly different fundamentals of the zerg race.

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