Antiga Shipyard (1.5.3 Balance) Discussion

General Discussion
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We’ve recently published a custom version of Antiga Shipyard, called "Antiga Shipyard (1.5.3 Balance)," in which we’re testing small balance changes to StarCraft II. Our plan is to first consider these, and then potentially test additional changes. Here’s the situation:

  • We've heard plenty of feedback recently from pro players and the community about powerful Zerg strategies.
  • Globally, at both the pro and non-pro levels, we’re not seeing significant balance issues.
  • We don't think there’s a large problem here, but we do agree that it’s worth trying to make things better by allowing some different options for players facing Zerg opponents.
  • As always, we want to make minor changes that open up tactical play, if possible.

Here’s what we’re testing:

Fungal Growth no longer affects Psionic units.

By making Psionic units immune to Fungal Growth, Infestors will need to be better protected by supporting units and will become somewhat more vulnerable to High Templar and Ghosts.

Raven Seeker Missile no longer requires an upgrade.

We’ve been discussing the design of the Seeker Missile for a while, and want to see it reach its potential. However, we don’t want to go overboard with the Raven. This change, if we settle on it, is something that will promote slightly more Raven usage, but shouldn’t completely rework the Terran late game.

We’re considering some other changes, but we want to tackle these first. They feel suitable for testing, and in particular, we’re looking for higher level players to playtest with us.

In addressing the metagame in the near future, we’re taking the time to fully determine which changes will work best together, and we're not looking for first impressions. Please playtest the new map thoroughly and then join us in this discussion thread with your feedback.
O_o
I'm definitely excited about seeing more HSM. Having it come with the Raven feels like a great idea and seems like a natural thing to do. Gonna test this right away. Will edit post with feedback. =)

All right, so I tried to play a match vs AI and while it doesn't mean much, it doesn't feel much different from before. By the time the research is done and the Raven has 125 energy and you send it into battle and it actually gets to pull off an HSM, the research would've most likely been already done. So the only real difference I felt is I had extra cash to spend on something else instead of this research (such as the extra energy, but then the first Raven is out before it), and perhaps research time for something else. I played specifically against 2 Zerg AIs, hoping they would clutter their units and rushed to get Ravens (which is a terrible idea in competitive multiplayer).

It may not feel like much, but it's a step in the right direction, at least. Terran already has too much to research anyways. Something so rare as the HSM doesn't change much if it comes with the Raven by default instead, so I'm thinking the Raven needs more. Perhaps less energy, like, 100? Or perhaps have the unit cost less gas? Or even slightly less build time for the unit, that could work, too.

EDIT: Oh, just noticed that comment about first impressions...Oh well.
When you say that fungal growth no longer affects psionic units, do you mean it will not root or do damage at all?
11/20/2012 06:02 PMPosted by Swarm
O_o


11/20/2012 06:03 PMPosted by Alexander
I'm definitely excited about seeing more HSM. Having it come with the Raven feels like a great idea and seems like a natural thing to do. Gonna test this right away. Will edit post with feedback. =)


we're not looking for first impressions. Please playtest the new map thoroughly and then join us in this discussion thread with your feedback.

Wow, you guys must play games really fast. You got to the HSM stage in two minutes? You should probably just go play in the GSL.

11/20/2012 06:03 PMPosted by Xombie
When you say that fungal growth no longer affects psionic units, do you mean it will not root or do damage at all?

Also, will it still reveal cloaked units? (I.E. Ghosts)
11/20/2012 06:03 PMPosted by Xombie
When you say that fungal growth no longer affects psionic units, do you mean it will not root or do damage at all?
I don't know... But this could backfire terribly.
can we test it on a non automatic win for terran map?

edit: by this i mean, terran has a strong win ratio on antiga, why not test it on a map with a more balanced winrate like Ohana Re or entombed valley? i think it would be hard to tell if ravens are working or not if the map is broken in terrans favor to begin with
11/20/2012 06:03 PMPosted by Xombie
When you say that fungal growth no longer affects psionic units, do you mean it will not root or do damage at all?


I believe that is what they mean.
Hmmm... If raven's could be made psionic they just might make it.
raven rush
So wait, we can't affect HTs and ghosts. Okay. But that also means that Archons and DTs can just slaughter the army unaffected?
Yay a buff for Terran. I have rarely experienced this pleasure. Hopefully this doesn't happen

Patch 1.5.3

Seeker Missile no longer requires upgrade

Patch 1.5.4

Seeker Missile now costs 200 energy to cast and reapers now cost 100/100
I see the raven turning into a late game harassing unit. A potential economy-destroyer for the opponent's expansions, which as the time goes on, becomes more and more important.
11/20/2012 06:15 PMPosted by Conan
raven rush

Can't you need gas and raven cannot hold.
This... I like the changes, but if we cant fungal DT's, thats pretty bad. :/
11/20/2012 06:22 PMPosted by EZFireStoRM
So wait, we can't affect HTs and ghosts. Okay. But that also means that Archons and DTs can just slaughter the army unaffected?


Ghosts, Sentries, Warp Prisms, High Templar, Dark Templar, Archons, Mothership, Queens, and Infestors are all immune.
11/20/2012 06:24 PMPosted by lapengu
This... I like the changes, but if we cant fungal DT's, thats pretty bad. :/

Fungal isn't the only way to kill dt's.
11/20/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Kaivax
Raven Seeker Missile no longer requires an upgrade.


For me this doesn't really give me a good reason to start making more ravens, because when I want to make ravens I prefer to make them really late game when I have a lot of excess gas. And I want to make a lot of them to be able to launch 4~5 HSM to really pressure the opponent to either 1. panic and die or 2. run the entire army away.

I mean, what would I achieve by having a couple of ravens in the early game? Seeker missiles are easily dodged in a small size army engagement which takes place in the early to mid game anyway.

I will try Marines + Ravens early(ish) game push see if I can make something happen. But since it's not easy to get to raven tech tree in the first place so I don't know how viable it would be to be honest. (For example, what if my opponent dodges HSM? GG because all I will have left are Marines with 0 upgrade)

How about giving Ravens the same move speed as Mutalisk or maybe even Phoenix? Then I can use them for worker harass or assist in drop mission with PDD without having to risk too much.

11/20/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Kaivax
we're not looking for first impressions


Oops :] my bad

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