Antiga Shipyard (1.5.3 Balance) Discussion

General Discussion
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11/26/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Tokudan
I tried it out and I really think this is stupid. The fact that infestors can only fungal non psionic then it breaks the matchup ZvP into the protoss favor. The units that would usually die to funalals easily are sentries and if you nerf that, what is zerg gonna do to immortal all ins. Also when the archon toliet comes out, then what stops the archons from going in. The fungals! This is breaking the matchup of any zerg against psionic to only affecting non psionic. Protoss has psionic in their arsenal and thats usually the templar tech. You day that infestors have to be well defending. Well sirs your logic is incorrect because you're not thinking of all the units that would be affected. The value of infestors against protoss would dwindle. Right now this is not viable and should never be released, yet even thought up of. Blizzard try not to do this, I mean it's ruining a matchup rather than helping it.
Mind posting a replay where you lost because Fungals did not affect sentries?
blizzard.. update on the situation please?
Blizzard, my suggestion is that if you want to promote Raven usage, a better way to do so is to make them so they're not so dang gassy. One Raven costs as much gas as a Collosus. I'd rather keep the missile an upgrade and have the Raven's gas cost reduced to 150 if given the choice (assuming both can't happen, of course). That brings it in line with the cost of High Templar and Infestors.
11/27/2012 01:13 AMPosted by Mongoose
Blizzard, my suggestion is that if you want to promote Raven usage, a better way to do so is to make them so they're not so dang gassy. One Raven costs as much gas as a Collosus. I'd rather keep the missile an upgrade and have the Raven's gas cost reduced to 150 if given the choice (assuming both can't happen, of course). That brings it in line with the cost of High Templar and Infestors.


Ravens cost that extra 50 gas for the ability to detect.
Blizzard, my suggestion is that if you want to promote Raven usage, a better way to do so is to make them so they're not so dang gassy. One Raven costs as much gas as a Collosus. I'd rather keep the missile an upgrade and have the Raven's gas cost reduced to 150 if given the choice (assuming both can't happen, of course). That brings it in line with the cost of High Templar and Infestors.


Ravens cost that extra 50 gas for the ability to detect.


Ravens cost whatever Blizzard wants them to cost for balance. There's no explicit breakdown of feature prices. Observers don't cost 50 gas for detection and 25 gas for cloak, they just cost 75 gas for the unit. They could keep the gas the way it is, reduce it to 175, cut it to zero if the designers and QA were drunk for an extended period of time (but stay sober, Blizzard).
11/27/2012 08:23 AMPosted by Mongoose


Ravens cost that extra 50 gas for the ability to detect.


Ravens cost whatever Blizzard wants them to cost for balance. There's no explicit breakdown of feature prices. Observers don't cost 50 gas for detection and 25 gas for cloak, they just cost 75 gas for the unit. They could keep the gas the way it is, reduce it to 175, cut it to zero if the designers and QA were drunk for an extended period of time (but stay sober, Blizzard).


Terran be so imbalanced if they could easily amass a fleet of Ravens , IMO


Ravens cost whatever Blizzard wants them to cost for balance. There's no explicit breakdown of feature prices. Observers don't cost 50 gas for detection and 25 gas for cloak, they just cost 75 gas for the unit. They could keep the gas the way it is, reduce it to 175, cut it to zero if the designers and QA were drunk for an extended period of time (but stay sober, Blizzard).


Terran be so imbalanced if they could easily amass a fleet of Ravens , IMO

If you wanted terrans to be able to easily mass a fleet or ravens then you would make them build faster on top of a price reduction. A price reduction just allows you to get them in your existing army more easily.
Haven't played the map, but my opinion is that this change to not working on psionic is the wrong way to go, as it impacts way too much.

Plus it could be rolled out way slower than this.

1) Psionic units aren't damaged, but are revealed, and stunned by FG.
2) Psionic units aren't damaged, or revealed, but are stunned by FG.
3) Psionic units aren't damaged, or stunned, but are revealed by FG.
3) What they are trying now.

That is the progression that should be taking when attempted such a large change.

Now they'll have no choice by to throw the whole idea out, never knowing if option 1 or 2, was ever viable. We know 3 isn't.
Haven't played the map, but my opinion is that this change to not working on psionic is the wrong way to go, as it impacts way too much.

Plus it could be rolled out way slower than this.

1) Psionic units aren't damaged, but are revealed, and stunned by FG.
2) Psionic units aren't damaged, or revealed, but are stunned by FG.
3) Psionic units aren't damaged, or stunned, but are revealed by FG.
3) What they are trying now.

That is the progression that should be taking when attempted such a large change.

Now they'll have no choice by to throw the whole idea out, never knowing if option 1 or 2, was ever viable. We know 3 isn't.


There's nothing stopping them from tweaking the balance map, as they did for queen changes the last time. Though given their stated purpose for the change (keeping counter casters usable), they would've already thrown out ideas 1 and 2.
Hey I am a diamond Toss. I played terran vs protoss and did a HunterSeekerMissile delayed 111 vs an average plat protoss. I wanted to get the energy reactor so I delayed the push and got tripple reactor marines on top of my 2-3 Tanks.

He tried to hold with gateway immortal against my full scv pull and marines. The push was delayed but hit very soon after full raven which lined up with tanks.

I demolished it by HSM'ing the ball that would have tried to overrun my tanks and FF my marines. The HSM is perfect against gateway sentry ball and I can imagine that a scan revealing tech could give me inspiration to HSM colossus or other high value targets with batter micro/
I just want to thabnks blizzard for being THAT GUY, that good guy greg, that baller, who has community feedback like this.

I am a Halo player of 10 years and those developers(all) cant get out of their own way and really hurt/utterly destroy communities. I know suits at Activision and M$ need to see results but at least Blizzard KIND OF tries. I really hope something comes of this and will test more on my free time.
If this patch goes through i will seriously lose faith in blizzards ability to design and balance this game

they dont see how broken forcefield is and they are just going to make heavy sentry plays even stronger?

it just dosnt make any sense.

I've been playing your game at GM level on NA for a very long time and I can tell you that forcefield is the biggest issue in your game and has been for a very long time

its both a crutch and a linchpinch for protoss and nothing but a headache for zerg and terran players

but go ahead and make fungal completely worthless vs protoss and see what happens to the ZvP matchup

youll realize how badly designed the game is overall at this point
We'd like to thank everyone who participated in testing these tweaks with us. Those who played on the map repeatedly were of great help.

Sometime in the next few days, we intend to replace this map with one that has a couple of different balance adjustments, for further testing. We'll go into greater detail on that in the blog and here in the forums at that time.
11/27/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Kaivax
Sometime in the next few days, we intend to replace this map with one that has a couple of different balance adjustments, for further testing. We'll go into greater detail on that in the blog and here in the forums at that time.

Sounds like progress!
thank you for the update
If this patch goes through i will seriously lose faith in blizzards ability to design and balance this game

they dont see how broken forcefield is and they are just going to make heavy sentry plays even stronger?

it just dosnt make any sense.

I've been playing your game at GM level on NA for a very long time and I can tell you that forcefield is the biggest issue in your game and has been for a very long time

its both a crutch and a linchpinch for protoss and nothing but a headache for zerg and terran players

but go ahead and make fungal completely worthless vs protoss and see what happens to the ZvP matchup

youll realize how badly designed the game is overall at this point


You don't need infestors. Stop lying to yourself. They're just easy to use and you're lazy.

And at least you can micro out of forcefields.
Not affecting psionic units was and is obviously the wrong way to fix the problem. Just make a projectile spell (like every other spell in the damn game) and make it so it slows affected units.

Zerg can still spam F on everything, players will have a chance to avoid it... The metagame won't be completely borked in PvZ (or so Zerg players are crying about) and we can just carry on...
Not affecting psionic units was and is obviously the wrong way to fix the problem. Just make a projectile spell (like every other spell in the damn game) and make it so it slows affected units.

Zerg can still spam F on everything, players will have a chance to avoid it... The metagame won't be completely borked in PvZ (or so Zerg players are crying about) and we can just carry on...


You can still avoid FG you know, as long as you can gauge how long 9 range actually is. The infestor has to come into range to FG you, so you need to dodge/split your units as it enters that range. It's kind of like how you dodge storms in TvP.
You don't need infestors. Stop lying to yourself. They're just easy to use and you're lazy.

And at least you can micro out of forcefields.


I'm only gold so I'm not one to talk...but dude, you're platinum and are telling a GM to l2p. That's not a good tactic.

Like it or not but infestors are about the only effective way to deal with sentries. And you can't micro out of well placed forcefields.

11/27/2012 03:51 PMPosted by NKexquisite
Just make a projectile spell (like every other spell in the damn game)


Forcefield has no projectile. Guardian shield has no projectile. Storm has no projectile. Feedback has no projectile. PDDs have no projectile. Transfuse has no projectile. Snipe doesn't really have a projectile (yeah there's an animation but the damage is basically instant and you can't avoid it).

Fail post is fail.

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