In exchange for the infestor nerf,

Protoss Discussion
would you be willing to see bio made immune to force fields?
I don't even. . .

You are asking if FF wouldn't effect marine/marauder/ghost and every single zerg unit?

That's every single unit people build against protoss so it would make force field worthless. Protoss players would lose every match before 8 minutes.

Edit: You just posted this same comment in like 3 different places. Please don't spam terrible trolling suggestions.
lol no.
Only if you add +50 HP to all Terran bio. Then I can safely switch to Terran without any skill required whatsoever.
Would you be willing to exchange a unit that is strong against everything for the one element that keeps Protoss from dying in the early-game?
11/28/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Guilt
Would you be willing to exchange a unit that is strong against everything for the one element that keeps Protoss from dying in the early-game?


The infestor is the one unit that keeps Zerg from dying in the mid-game.

11/28/2012 12:10 PMPosted by wraithcube
Edit: You just posted this same comment in like 3 different places. Please don't spam terrible trolling suggestions.


I have a fan!
Also: infestors with no energy do no damage... And cost 50% more gas...
11/28/2012 08:33 PMPosted by Novae
Also: infestors with no energy do no damage... And cost 50% more gas...


Funny because sentries WITH energy do no damage
11/28/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Novae
would you be willing to see bio made immune to force fields?
Not in your dreams.

Sorry, but it seems that if you are having issues with FF as Terran bio, you need to learn to micro and scout before engaging, as well as choosing your engagements.

Asking for random nerfs to Forcefield is indicative of your lack of knowledge/experience with TvP.
11/28/2012 08:29 PMPosted by Novae
The infestor is the one unit that keeps Zerg from dying in the mid-game.
Not really. Roach ling and Zerg larvae are enough in 99% of situations.

Oh, and ling/bane + Muta accomplish the same thing, btw. Infestors are just poorly designed and replace those 2 comps TOO readily.

PS:

Lategame, you can also use Broodlord, "bane rain", corruptor, roach/ling to replace Infestor/BL/Corruptor with the exact same result and it also is immune to Archon toilets. Banes inside vortex = Archon Toilet fail.
11/29/2012 06:06 AMPosted by Zamara
Oh, and ling/bane + Muta accomplish the same thing, btw.


That's what I see all the pros doing...
11/29/2012 06:04 AMPosted by Zamara
Asking for random nerfs to Forcefield is indicative of your lack of knowledge/experience with TvP.


In ZvP, making psi units immune to fungal is roughly the same as making bio immune to FF - it would be completely pointless.

My point being that Blizz probably was thinking the psi buff would make ghosts more viable in TvZ, but didn't spend a drop of mental energy considering the other matchups... In ZvZ, making infestors immune to fungal would have very weird (and bad) consequences.

And for another parallel: Protoss often leave templar in-base to storm drops, if fungal is nerfed then Zerg don't have that option (warp prisms and dt's would be immune).
and just for the record, I play Protoss as much as I play Zerg, and I use both FF and fungal and wouldn't want to nerf either - I think the reason many players qq about them is because they don't know how to use their race's own casters. And those people should get their own league called "1A" where all the casters (and AOE units? and cloak? and drops?) have been removed.
nerf storm if infestors are been nerfed and nerf emp for terran all round itll balance out.
11/29/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Novae
That's what I see all the pros doing...
They used to SUCCEED with that BEFORE the Infestor buffs. Obviously if something is OP, every pro would use the OP tool instead of the less effective one. It's human nature and common sense. I thought it would be obvious for smart people.

11/29/2012 08:00 AMPosted by Novae
In ZvP, making psi units immune to fungal is roughly the same as making bio immune to FF - it would be completely pointless.
Far from it. Making psi units immune to fungal = removing Khaydarin amulet. It tackles a specific issue; giving something blatantly OP a weakness.

FF is not OP by a LONG shot, unless you suck at playing SC2.

My point being that Blizz probably was thinking the psi buff would make ghosts more viable in TvZ, but didn't spend a drop of mental energy considering the other matchups... In ZvZ, making infestors immune to fungal would have very weird (and bad) consequences.
Actually, the change is WELL thought out and pretty good.

In TvZ, ghosts WILL become viable again.

In PvZ, Infestor/BL and 20+ infestor styles WILL be phased out in favor for more sides of the Zerg tech to be explored and added to lategame, and it lays out the ground for future buffs in Hydras or something.

In ZvZ, making infestors immune to each is actually REALLY good because it makes sure that if both players are going Infestors, they cannot spam it, but need a good balance of it to sustain a strong midgame. If a player overmakes them, it opens up the possibility to use more nydus to beat a slow-moving infestor force with increased mobility. If a player goes for a more macro-based harass style with nydus/roach with a handful of defensive infestors behind a spine wall + some supporting units in midgame, it makes for a more interesting and dynamic midgame. Of course it shatters current meta, but that's the point.

And for another parallel: Protoss often leave templar in-base to storm drops, if fungal is nerfed then Zerg don't have that option (warp prisms and dt's would be immune).
This is about the ONLY sensible point you make in your entire post.

Warp-prisms should NOT be immune to FG, while DTs SHOULD be immune. Why? Because making Fungal counter DTs makes for lazy anti-DT defensive play. Zerg SHOULD pay to defend against DT harass, just like everyone else. Infestors are the cheap way out because they're casters and have re-usability with time unlike DT.

Terrans are forced to keep units close to missile turrets to deny DT harass. Protoss has to build cannons + post a few zealots around to stay DT free, or they need to split their stalkers and use extra gas on observers (that have NO military use aside from detection for 75 gas a pop - VERY expensive for Protoss).

I do not see why Zerg should be exempt from that rule. DT = gas investment from Protoss that eats into army and tech/upgrades + time required to take/secure tech and expos. If a DT does not force a response - getting detection + forcing units to stay behind to defend, it is made useless completely and hurts the game overall. The difference with Infestors is that you just need infestors to defend against DTs = unreasonably cheap. Protoss cannot defend drops with PURELY HT. Terran cannot defend DT with PURELY missile Turrets.

Infestors lack major weaknesses and making the Fungal growth NOT affect Psionic is BRILLIANT as it elegantly tackles MASS infestor stupidity and also forces Zerg to think more broadly about their race and use a LOT more tools than they are at the moment - making them equal to the other 2 races.

The ONLY problem with this change is the warp-prism being psionic. The easy fix? Make prisms robotic/mechanical, and remove the psionic tag.

Done.
and just for the record, I play Protoss as much as I play Zerg, and I use both FF and fungal and wouldn't want to nerf either - I think the reason many players qq about them is because they don't know how to use their race's own casters. And those people should get their own league called "1A" where all the casters (and AOE units? and cloak? and drops?) have been removed.
At least TRY to put more thought into your posts. Fungal and ITs are blatantly broken. IT are too cheap and Fungal is TOO all-purpose. Forcefield can be a little strong in NICHE circumstances, but are all-around balanced because of warpgate, and the fact that gate units are flimsy as sin. Fungal is FAR from balanced, especially in lategame situations.

For a unit like the Infestor, if they cost more gas and were hive with the CURRENT spells intact, I'd agree. However, they're LAIR tech = they're WAY too strong and cost-efficient for that tech level.

They're like cheap High Templar without the tech costs and weaknesses associated, not to mention that they're the ONLY caster unit that can be made in the 20+ and be called an "army".
. Zerg SHOULD pay to defend against DT harass, just like everyone else. Infestors are the cheap way out because they're casters and have re-usability with time unlike DT.

In HOTS, this argument has double strength. Zergs don't even need an evo chamber to build spores, so they should damn well be forced to build them.
11/28/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Novae
would you be willing to see bio made immune to force fields?


Quit trolling n00b.
http://drop.sc/280045

Suggesting bio be immune to FF's L0L you should uninstall right now

Ladder match 15 mins ago
11/29/2012 06:06 AMPosted by Zamara
The infestor is the one unit that keeps Zerg from dying in the mid-game.
Not really. Roach ling and Zerg larvae are enough in 99% of situations.

Oh, and ling/bane + Muta accomplish the same thing, btw. Infestors are just poorly designed and replace those 2 comps TOO readily.

PS:

Lategame, you can also use Broodlord, "bane rain", corruptor, roach/ling to replace Infestor/BL/Corruptor with the exact same result and it also is immune to Archon toilets. Banes inside vortex = Archon Toilet fail.


FF is fairly broken, but I don't think its fixable with the current game. You talk about ling/bane, but that is completely shut down by proper FFs. Mutas lose to mass stalker

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum