Call to Action: November 30 Balance Testing

General Discussion
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We just published a new custom version of Antiga Shipyard, called "Antiga Shipyard (1.5.3 Balance)," in which we’re testing small balance changes to StarCraft II. This map has different balance adjustments than the previous version we published on November 20. With this test, we’re continuing to consider the meta-game around Zerg. Here’s the situation:

1. After testing the previous adjustment that made Psionic units immune to Fungal Growth, we found it to be too big of a change. We've reverted that change for now.
2. Globally, Zerg players don’t have a general advantage, especially at the highest levels of play.
3. We do agree with the community that everyone could possibly benefit from some attention to Infestors.

Here’s what we’re testing now:

Raven Seeker Missile no longer requires an upgrade.

As before, this should slightly promote Raven usage without completely altering the Terran late game.

Egg health reduced to 80 (was 100).

In this test, we’re looking at bringing down the impact of Infested Terrans. When players have a dozen or more Infestors, they aren’t using 20 Fungals at once. Rather, they’re relying on Infested Terrans. The question we hope to answer is: Will the Zerg’s opponents kill some of the eggs before Infested Terrans spawn?

We’d like to see how this plays out on the test map. These aren’t final changes, and we’re looking for feedback that is based on play-testing. After you’ve thoroughly tested it, please join us in this discussion thread.

Thank you very much!
Perhaps increasing the energy requirement to 30 is also a good idea
Make infestors 3 supply

Brood lords 6 supply: There is no justification for such a powerful unit - A TIER 3 UNIT - to be only 4 supply.

Also take away Queen buff - do you really like zerg getting 3 bases and droning to 70 by 10 min every game?
You are aware that Fungal is the reason infestors are broken right? Fungal has range 9 with radius 2 so effectively 11 range. Seeker missle has 6 range...tell me that isn't bull!@#$. Also watch any ipl late game TvZ and tell me how the terran could have won with out the zerg move commanding their infestors into tanks. You were on the right track with the psionic units being immune but lost your backbone to the whining swarm once again. They literally haven't been nerfed in like a year and the best you can come up with is a 20 health nerf on eggs...freaking unbelievable.

Better ideas
Fungal Radius reduced to 1.5 (which would match Storm and EMP) (Shows blizzards bias towards zerg)
Increase the supply of broodlords and/or infestors
Make Broodlings cost minerals
Remove the snare of fungal. It would still be very powerful and require more skill to use than just memorizing the timing to chain fungal.

Best idea
Revert snipe nerf to compensate (Read Qxc's post from when you were considering that nerf. You must have ignored it because it was more thought out than anything I've seen come out of blizzard since I started Sc2)
11/29/2012 06:07 PMPosted by QueensNYC
Brood lords 6 supply


Sure, then give Brood lords an anti-air attack...
11/29/2012 06:14 PMPosted by Swarm
Brood lords 6 supply


Sure, then give Brood lords an anti-air attack...


Sure, give colossus anti-air too
Egg health reduced to 80 (was 100).

At least a storm will now guarantee a batch of dead eggs.
You really have no clue do you
Infestors are a huge problem obviously but I am surprised no one ever mentions how the queen buff totally destroyed the game, even on a spectator side.
The beautiful games between T and Z that lasted minutes and minutes between bane-ling-muta vs marine-tank are all gone. Zergs start the hive between 11 and 13 min mark.
Nothing happens before. There's literally no early-mid game. There is the same boring stuff for 11 minutes and then Zerg starts getting broodlord infestors and you start sweating for the other player wondering if he can survive. Usually he can't and every time a player beats a Z in super late game, you can tell everybody is surprised/happy - there is so much (and rightfully so) commentator bias these days against Zerg it's not even funny.
I am absolutely baffled that Blizzard could think that making the egg HP to 80 is seriously going to fix something.
GSL alone, TvZ is at 34% win rate. I don't know what else to say, if that's not high level of play, what is it ? These last months T has been the most under represented race by far. Every liquipedia page for race distribution is hilarious if you support T.
The fact that you don't wanna change fungal makes me beyond shocked.
I lost that little faith left that I had in you and even if I am a drop in the ocean, I won't be supporting your game anymore by watching any tournaments as wells as not getting HotS. Maybe I'll still play some 2on2 on WoL but that's as far as it will go. It breaks my heart to see talented T and P players getting robbed by that damn broken unit.
You lost a fan today
Cheers
QQ moar plz.

No, seriously, QQ until Blizz wakes up to reality.
So much hate in this thread...
1. After testing the previous adjustment that made Psionic units immune to Fungal Growth, we found it to be too big of a change. We've reverted that change for now.
2. Globally, Zerg players don’t have a general advantage, especially at the highest levels of play.


Thanks for not caving in to all the dumb anti Zerg QQ Blizzard. There's hope yet!
QQ moar plz.

No, seriously, QQ until Blizz wakes up to reality.

It is beginning to seem like I'll have to hop aboard the qq train.
This is terrible news. Makes no sense what so ever.
11/29/2012 06:15 PMPosted by QueensNYC


Sure, then give Brood lords an anti-air attack...


Sure, give colossus anti-air too


Except, Colossus are much easier to get than Brood Lords and can be chrono-boosted.
Too big a change? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Thanks Blizz, this is much more in the right direction. Personally I'd like to see a slightly larger nerf (not sure what it would be) and a slight buff to the hydra to increase build diversity, but glad that all of a sudden we can't fungal 1/2 of the toss army.
I still don't understand why they just don't do something simple like 3 supply infestors.

Altering their spells at this point in the game results in a change that's either too big or too small when the problem is the fact that the unit itself is just too rewarding to someone that masses a ton of them.

No one is complaining about Infestors in smaller numbers, they serve the same function as Ghosts and HTs in the other match ups, the thing that separates the Infestor from the other caster units is its ability to function as a core army unit in the way Ghosts USED to right when they got hit with the nerf bat.

Changing their supply cost to discourage people from massing them solves all of the problems for now, table changing Fungal Growth's design for HoTS and put in a fix that addresses the REAL problem now.
rework guardian shield -> costs more energy, negates effects of fungal growth/point defence drone, make point defence drone able to stop fungal growth or forcefield for 50 of its energy(it costs 10 for regular attacks)<- point defence drone can only do this after timed duration upgrade is complete.

make infested terrans cost 50 energy OR guardian shield/point defence drone make infested terran unable to cast within their range

Also; protoss units affected by guardian shield immune to EMP, but after timed duration upgrade Point defence drone can also block storm. the trade off here being that ghosts cannot take HT energy, BUT PDD can stop storm if positioned correctly.

These balance changes would encourage play and open up options for games that are more back and forth and "edge of your seat"


Sure, give colossus anti-air too


Except, Colossus are much easier to get than Brood Lords and can be chrono-boosted.


Stacked larva? Mass tier 3 instantly? Mass corruptors morphed? There is no justification for such a powerful unit - A TIER 3 UNIT - to be only 4 supply.

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