Templar>Stargate>Robo>Templar

Protoss Discussion
Just something I have been thinking over the past few months after looking up the Hots changes.

It would be awesome if High Templar were tweaked (more likely buff) to be more of a counter against air units so that during PvP games. I'm not saying it should hard counter it, but be more powerful against air.

I think I can say, with assurance, that Robo is the strongest ground option for the protoss, and seeing how stargate is changing in Hots, stargate seems to counter Robo very well. So to me, it would be nice to see Templar play counter stargate somewhat so the meta doesn't just shift to a Statgate vs Stargate play.

EDIT: I meant to say, the late game meta doesn't just shift to a Stargate vs Stargate play.
Actually templar tech has a slight build order advantage over phoenix builds and it will remain this way in hots.

Archons pretty much shutdown phoenix harrassment and the splash does amazing against any kind of mass air. High templar feedback is good against oracles, phoenixes and mothership cores. Storm can also do well to bunched up air.

It's actually really hard to hold a chargelot/archon push when you open phoenix.

Oh and blink stalkers are the standard ground counter to phoenixes anyway.
I think you mean twilight>stargate>robo>twilight

Which is what everybody means when they say coinflip matchup.
over come the coinflip! USE DA FORCE! Although everyone says it's coinflip it really isn't if you play very well and make the right decisions.
I think you mean twilight>stargate>robo>twilight

Which is what everybody means when they say coinflip matchup.


True, but really none of those are instant-win. You can definitely win if you open robo against stargate, or stargate against twilight. Of course there are builds where you will instantly lose, like phoenix expand versus DT-4gate, or robo expand versus phoenix-4gate, but thats just failure to scout/crappy buildorder.
It depends on the strategies used. A robo build used to expand can fight against stargate builds. A stargate build used to void ray rush can beat a twilight build used to fast expand. A 4-gate can beat an early robo expand.

Also, Gateway tech doesn't really focus on Templar themselves countering air. DT rushing against a Stargate opener can indirectly win you the game because the opponent will most likely not have detection available. As far as direct counters, Blink Stalkers and Archons are more for counter air, though Storm can kill badly-micro'd Interceptors and Feedback can kill Phoenix.
I meant to say late game meta. Early to mid is fine but I don't want to see late game become nothing but an air battle, especially with all these new changes with the air units in the Hots beta.

It might never reach a pure Stargate army (like 30%-60% will be stargate units with the rest being gateway), but I worry stargate play will dominate all tech routes late game.

High templar can only counter phoenix, which I think can be sure aren't going to be used often during the late game. Archon's range is really short, making them not that strong against all those far range ships, leaving only stalkers. And in my opinion, Protoss kind of have the worst ground anti-air defense.

And I mean Templar over Twlight.
feedback vs oracles and nix, stalkers vs voids, blink for tempest, and archons for the zealot spam that goes with it. It's a pretty reasonable dynamic, and warpgate with good pylon placement should move it toward your favor.
I think you mean twilight>stargate>robo>twilight

Which is what everybody means when they say coinflip matchup.


True, but really none of those are instant-win. You can definitely win if you open robo against stargate, or stargate against twilight. Of course there are builds where you will instantly lose, like phoenix expand versus DT-4gate, or robo expand versus phoenix-4gate, but thats just failure to scout/crappy buildorder.


Well all 3 of them are "standard", and are designed to be fairly safe. Any early expand in pvp is pretty greedy, (because warpgates) and therefore loses to all-ins that are timed to stop them. There are very few "safe" builds in this game as a whole that have anything that kills you instantly, even if a build is very strong against another (Immo sentry allin vs large roach armies can be held, as can early ghosts vs templar builds)
Unfortunately you would need carriers or a LOT of blink stalkers before ht. Without them ht would just get grav beamed. Archons can also help out but they do have small range so it would be harder to cover your ht.
12/05/2012 10:29 PMPosted by Artisian
feedback vs oracles and nix, stalkers vs voids, blink for tempest, and archons for the zealot spam that goes with it. It's a pretty reasonable dynamic, and warpgate with good pylon placement should move it toward your favor.


I highly doubt there will be a lot of Phoenixs and oracles in the late game, and I can actually think of a easy way to negate the blink stalkers: you have a zealot meat shield attacking the stalkers and archons.

Even if a player goes heavy into stargate play late game, they will still have a lot of warpgates to back it up. And seeing how stargate will be gas intensive, zealots from warpgate seems too perfect for it. Also, with the new Voidray effect, I think a voidray trades really well against stalkers.

Archon rang is also really short for me to think of them of being useful until the ground army is completely destroy, which kind of takes a lot of time.

Anyways, I just going to leave it as, I don't want to see the same thing happen with PvP again, but this time it being forced into stargates battle.

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