Why would you ever use Stalkers?

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Stalkers aren't bad, they just aren't that good. They require sentries at all times if it is anything beyond a blink stalkers all-in, or they will die to the simplest things instantaneously.

I use them all the time. Do I want no? Eh... no.
The thing is that stalkers, even though they aren't very efficient, are VERY easy to make. One stalker, even though it costs twice as much as a zealot, only costs half as much TIME per cost to warp in. People do not usually think of time as a resource, but it definitely is one.
However, if you are able to get almost any other unit, they are better than stalkers. It will just take more time to get that other unit.
The thing is that stalkers, even though they aren't very efficient, are VERY easy to make. One stalker, even though it costs twice as much as a zealot, only costs half as much TIME per cost to warp in. People do not usually think of time as a resource, but it definitely is one.
However, if you are able to get almost any other unit, they are better than stalkers. It will just take more time to get that other unit.


One Stalker does not cost twice as much as a Zealot, it costs nearly 3 times as much.

And the use of time is not efficient when it's for a unit which is out-damaged by workers.
I checked his math, probes actually have a better cost/dps ratio than stalkers- even against armored (3 probes 9.9 DPS, 1 stalker 6.9 or 8.7 vs armored)- which is funny, but not a very useful statistic considering HP, range, speed, armor, etc. But it does highlight the fact that stalkers do have very low DPS for their cost, even if they have some other useful attributes.


True. Did you also know that sentries have the same dps as mutalisk? And yet, because of their other attributes, you would rarely make a bunch of sentries to deal with muta.

SC 2 is full of little quirks like this. It is interesting that a stalker has less cost/dps ratio than probes, but I wouldn't fight anything more than another worker or a speedless small group of zerglings with them. Meanwhile you can micro stalkers all day, hit things in the air, use your range 6 and speed to get even MORE damage despite the fact that you're dealing it "slower".

SC 2, despite popular belief, is not a 1a war. You can get more out of your units with proper control and picking the right fights. Also there is synergy with other units. In PvT you use stalkers to deal the dps and zealots to tank in the early game vs marauders. In PvZ the stalker works well in combination with sentries when attacking or defending vs roach ling.

There really is no amazing unit in this game (don't even say broodlord or infestor, because the drawback there is cost, time and tech level). They all have weaknesses, as they should. No race should be judged based off of one unit, and it's how you combine the effects of your units that really matters.
The thing is that stalkers, even though they aren't very efficient, are VERY easy to make. One stalker, even though it costs twice as much as a zealot, only costs half as much TIME per cost to warp in. People do not usually think of time as a resource, but it definitely is one.
However, if you are able to get almost any other unit, they are better than stalkers. It will just take more time to get that other unit.


One Stalker does not cost twice as much as a Zealot, it costs nearly 3 times as much.

And the use of time is not efficient when it's for a unit which is out-damaged by workers.


Stalkers do not get out-damaged by workers. You misinterpret the facts. They have a lower cost to dps ratio than probes, it's not the same thing.

EDIT:

5 probes (250 minerals) total of 100 hp and 100 shields
3.3 dps x 5 = 16.5
range = 0
speed = 2.8125
supply @ 1 ea. = 5 supply

2 stalkers (250 minerals 100 gas) total of 160 hp and 160 shields
6.9 dps x 2 = 13.8
+2.8 dps (vs armored) would make 19.4
speed = 2.9531
supply @ 2 ea. = 4 supply

Probes only have more dps per cost vs non-armored targets. They have far less hit points, are not ranged, and cost more supply.
...Because they shoot up.
In PvT the only time you go stalkers is if your going blink or doing some sort of colossi timing and you need the stalkers to take out the air units. Against Zerg you want stalkers instead of zealots because you need tranged units + FF against Roaches. In PvP you shuold only mass stalkers if your doing a blink all in
The Protoss army is heavily dependent on extremely specialized units that do one role very well (Colossus, Immortals, Phoenix, etc). Stalkers are the mortar that fill in the gaps and hold the army together. They're not meant to be good at anything. They're meant to be ok at everything.
01/03/2013 09:03 AMPosted by Smitty
In PvT the only time you go stalkers is if your going blink or doing some sort of colossi timing and you need the stalkers to take out the air units.


See CreatorPrime's PvT style that won him the TSL 4. He favors stalkers in the early game over sentries and uses the extra gas to get robo support bay out faster. Stalkers are used to spot for possible 5 rax. He also uses his initial 4 stalkers (with incredible game sense and positioning) to deflect drops. Sure, aside from the opening (sometimes he opens 4 stalkers), the stalkers don't shine throughout the entire game. They aren't the killing blow by themselves but their place is nonetheless very important for this build to work.

Note: this is a macro build and NOT a collosus timing, although it relys on an early collosus to survive initial MMM push.

01/03/2013 09:03 AMPosted by Smitty
In PvP you shuold only mass stalkers if your doing a blink all in


I agree with you here. You need them early game usually, but you don't need to continue making them once collosus wars are in effect, as zealots, almost counter-intuitively, are better (ie to creat layers that make collosus fire less effective).
Blink is really good
because they are one of the most versatile units of the protoss

the thing is....stalker isn't a massable unit, u should only enough for support, except for PvZ when the Z is massing roaches
Blink all-in?
Anti-air (for base defense as well as Colossi support vs. Corruptors and Vikings)
Base defense vs. drops?
Vs. roaches?
Vs. mutas?

Was this a serious question or just another unnecessary waste of everyone's time?

Edit: After re-reading the OP I think it was more or less a joke (the apm thing was kinda funny). I'd agree Stalkers have a limited role, but it's a very necessary role and they fulfill it adequately. Blink increases their usefulness tenfold.
01/03/2013 07:27 AMPosted by EllisD
I checked his math, probes actually have a better cost/dps ratio than stalkers- even against armored (3 probes 9.9 DPS, 1 stalker 6.9 or 8.7 vs armored)- which is funny, but not a very useful statistic considering HP, range, speed, armor, etc. But it does highlight the fact that stalkers do have very low DPS for their cost, even if they have some other useful attributes.


True. Did you also know that sentries have the same dps as mutalisk? And yet, because of their other attributes, you would rarely make a bunch of sentries to deal with muta.

SC 2 is full of little quirks like this. It is interesting that a stalker has less cost/dps ratio than probes, but I wouldn't fight anything more than another worker or a speedless small group of zerglings with them. Meanwhile you can micro stalkers all day, hit things in the air, use your range 6 and speed to get even MORE damage despite the fact that you're dealing it "slower".

SC 2, despite popular belief, is not a 1a war. You can get more out of your units with proper control and picking the right fights. Also there is synergy with other units. In PvT you use stalkers to deal the dps and zealots to tank in the early game vs marauders. In PvZ the stalker works well in combination with sentries when attacking or defending vs roach ling.

There really is no amazing unit in this game (don't even say broodlord or infestor, because the drawback there is cost, time and tech level). They all have weaknesses, as they should. No race should be judged based off of one unit, and it's how you combine the effects of your units that really matters.


I like this post. There are some things you dont address such as level of difficulty and so on, but overall a good post.

True. Did you also know that sentries have the same dps as mutalisk?


Kind of misleading - Mutas do much more damage than sentries. You're probably not counting splash damage.
do everyone a favor and go hang your self by your ballsack
01/03/2013 11:24 AMPosted by Zorak
do everyone a favor and go hang your self by your ballsack

I'll bring the Spider Wire, great for ballsack hanging


Explain how you would do this!
really guys stalkers aren't bad. cause if they were we wouldn't still be seeing mass stalker play and etc. so marines have a faster firing and damage compared to stalkers but stalkers are known to be more resistant. protoss need to have a fair unit composition to win games. unlike terran who might really just need marines and tanks toss players need to have the whole package, we're talking sentries, immortals, colossus, and STALKERS. the thing is toss units need to work in harmony more then anything else
you all are incorrect stalkers do good in large nummbers along with charged zealot,storm,immortals and colossu.You can also blink micro
lol go tell mc that

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