[HOTS fix] Stargate Production

General Discussion
Post Limit:
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, and I am in no way claiming the idea as mine, and if it's already been brought up, my apologies.

Stargate is the only production facility that shows what unit is being built. I see no real point to this. If someone could enlighten me that'd be swell, but my current take on it is that it should be fixed so that the Stargate can be like other production facilities and now show what it's building.

Also, it does actually matter. If someone scouts your stargate, they don't even have to worry about the possibilities of what's being built, but rather can see it right away.

It's not a horribly huge balance for feature fix, but I think it'd be a decent change to make.

Thoughts?

I'll be posting a link to reddit as well, and will provide a link if you'd rather discuss there.

Edit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/14zcws/hots_fix_stargate_production/
Something tells me someone was watching TB's House of the Swarm tourney. But anyways kinda agree there, it is kinda odd that you can tell what's being built.
Agreed.
I've always agreed about this, it's a huge giveaway, especially if you're trying to hide Carrier tech (or Tempests I suppose).
12/16/2012 10:20 PMPosted by Darmuth
Something tells me someone was watching TB's House of the Swarm tourney. But anyways kinda agree there, it is kinda odd that you can tell what's being built.


Haha! Yeah! I actually read the post a while back, and when Husky mentioned it, I recalled the general complaint. With the rise of all these new HOTS fixes, I feel this is the best time for it to get fixed.
I have no problem with this.
You may carry on with my approval.
Which of course, means absolutely nothing.
Now that more units will be produced from the Stargate hopefully this will become a bigger issue and be fixed.
While you're at it, fix the problem with the Nexus having a different animation for producing a Mothership (it is very hard to distinguish unless you are looking for it, but still). Btw, does anyone know if the MsC in production uses the same animation as the Ms in production in WoL?
12/17/2012 12:02 AMPosted by VuoiDyS
While you're at it, fix the problem with the Nexus having a different animation for producing a Mothership (it is very hard to distinguish unless you are looking for it, but still). Btw, does anyone know if the MsC in production uses the same animation as the Ms in production in WoL?


It does.

But I like the fact that Stargate production is visible.
Simple solution:

make it so that observers and the player sees how it is currently, but your opponent only sees a generic warping in animation.
Simple solution:

make it so that observers and the player sees how it is currently, but your opponent only sees a generic warping in animation.

It would be better to have just one animation (the player and observer can just click on the Stargate, and the observer can see in the production tab), but I have nothing against your solution.

12/17/2012 12:48 AMPosted by Quirriff
But I like the fact that Stargate production is visible.

Why?
+1
12/16/2012 10:15 PMPosted by Chloroform
Stargate is the only production facility that shows what unit is being built.


Naked/Reactored Rax

Checkmate
12/17/2012 03:00 AMPosted by TheGame
Stargate is the only production facility that shows what unit is being built.


Naked/Reactored Rax

Checkmate


Hatchery. Shows its producing larva as well. Double check mate... or kind of dumb argument?

Reactored rax might reveal whats being produced, but a Terran making marines is not a big deal. Seeing 5 different units being built is a bigger deal.
12/17/2012 03:09 AMPosted by GeminiEclips
Hatchery. Shows its producing larva as well. Double check mate... or kind of dumb argument?

It's a dumb argument because larva cannot attack nor scout nor do anything useful that another Zerg unit could do. Well, that is except for morphing into other Zerg units. This argument would only be valid if you could see what larva were morphing into.

12/17/2012 03:09 AMPosted by GeminiEclips
Reactored rax might reveal whats being produced, but a Terran making marines is not a big deal. Seeing 5 different units being built is a bigger deal

I agree with you there.
Some of the arguments against this from the reddit thread.

So? The races have always been asymetrical. Is it also OP that Terran buildings can fly and other races can't? Is Terran OP because they can build wherever they want and other races can't?
This isn't a "fix", this is complaining about an intentional design.


That is almost more a case to show it. Otherwise, what is the point of seeing a stargate? Oh !@#$, well he is making something and if I don't see what I'm dead? Didn't Zergs QQ for 2 years because of not being able to scout?


Honestly, my answer to both is that it just doesn't make sense that Stargate is the only facility that does this. It's a stupid intentional design that Stargate is the only (not only Protoss) facility in the WHOLE FREAKING GAME, that does this.

Barracks, Factories, Hatcheries, Robotics, etc. all produce a lot of units that you can choose from. Of course there are some hints that tell you sort of what's happening (time in the game, tech, gas, etc.), but why do these factors change when it suddenly comes to Stargate? It's highly improbable that someone is going to go Tempest 10 minutes into the game, just like its improbable that someone will do Thor at the same time.
12/17/2012 03:09 AMPosted by GeminiEclips
Reactored rax might reveal whats being produced, but a Terran making marines is not a big deal. Seeing 5 different units being built is a bigger deal.


A glance at Terran production should reveal what he is making pretty obviously. Gateways are quite diverse as they also unlock templar tech. Barracks are pretty much only made for MM so when you see a good number of them you can expect MM. When you see many Factories, it is pretty obvious he is going mech. How their upgrades work give it away as well. Reactors just help you know what specific unit the player is building atm, but a glance at the army is a much easier way to tell what they are going.
12/17/2012 09:34 AMPosted by Chloroform
Barracks, Factories, Hatcheries, Robotics, etc. all produce a lot of units that you can choose from. Of course there are some hints that tell you sort of what's happening (time in the game, tech, gas, etc.), but why do these factors change when it suddenly comes to Stargate? It's highly improbable that someone is going to go Tempest 10 minutes into the game, just like its improbable that someone will do Thor at the same time.

Yes, but in PvZ, don't you want to hide to your opponent if you're building an Oracle, Phoenix or Void Ray?
Actually, if you look at the entrance to the roach warren, you can see a roach inside. Pretty big indicator to what their building

+1 to OP though
I don't know if it is imbalanced, but with how easily Zerg can scout a Protoss until the 15th min into the game, I DO believe that Protoss needs SOME secrecy in the production of the stargate units. It is a cool effect in the game, that I enjoy as a Protoss player, but I also loathe it because it exposes what direction my strategy will take based on what can be seen being produced at X mins from the Stargate.

It does LIMIT strategic play, although we Protosses have somewhat learned to ignore that fact...

It is STILL a legitimate concern that no other race gets to know what is being made from their eggs if a Spire is spotted, or a (naked/reactored) Starport is spotted, until the units pop out. Protoss is the only race where you can know 50-60 seconds in advance what unit is coming out of it. Protoss has to guess in most cases to prepare for air-play from both T and Z.

A little unfair, but I think we've "kinda" adapted to it just being there.

I still agree with you, OP.

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