Why terran macro is the hardest

Terran Discussion
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What I read in your post is basically you believe what all you wrote to be is facts and any Terran player who disagrees is just bias ? Lol Players like you are amusing really you are when you try find similarities with different races that have different advantages and disadvantages.

I have clearly stated in my first post if you would do something called reading stating different races are different . You on the other hand, want to try convince me that Terran is at the same level of production as a Zerg and Toss. Which is laughable because that is not even remotely close. Zerg can produce faster and Toss can reinforce faster those are their specific game designs.

I have acknowledge ,again if you read my post without your Toss bias , you would see I acknowledge Terran macro isnt that harder but our production is lacking compared to the other 2 races.

No warp gates dont have any disadvantage compared to Barracks. You already expose what do you spend to turn a gateway to a warpgate a total of what ? 25 mins , oh wow that is so much equal than 50/50 reactor which takes much longer to make than a warp gate transformation and a 50/25 tech lab which also take a longer time to make than a warp gate transformation. So no it is not difficult. Do you have to have extra space to turn a gate way to a warp gate? No right? Do you need to position your gateways so all your units move out smoothly? No because you can warp in at any warp in location right? Why are you trying so hard to tell me your infrastructure is so difficult than a Terrans? What next are you going to tell me your blink micro is just as difficult as splitting marines from banes? Say it with me Different races are different.

No, again you are assuming here, we wont have the same amount of Barracks compared to your warpgates. Normally you would see what? 10-12 racks and 3 starports on 4 bases because all our units are mineral heavy (unlike your units that have better cost spread like high temps being gas heavy for example while ghost are mineral heavy like our bio army) . Toss can what maintain 6-8 gates with a robo on 2 bases vs 6 racks and a starport . Out those gates you will be able to support HT and colossus out your robo. Ghost wont be seen really until a third mining base is establish.

Why warp gates are better? You can make any gateway unit and they all warp in at the same time frame. We can only make Marines out reactors and either a Marauder or Ghost out tech labs all have different build times. So what does that all means? Well obviously we wont be producing the same amount of units as you are.
You should never stockpile Larva....Maybe you need to go back and read what I wrote. I made it clear I was speaking late game purposes (notice I mention 4 bases and 3 macro hatches *light bulb*). At late game drone production is not an issue, at late game you already have an army out, at late game you are stock piling your larva so you can remax after trading. This is where YOU fail to understand how zerg works. If you think any high master Zerg does not have 40 plus larva in the bank when he is pushing out with his deathball is just lol . Why do you think Zerg bank so much resources? Ding ding it is so they can spend all that money on the larva they are saving after a trade.

The whole reason for that is so while he is engaging he doesnt make any mistakes having to inject larva in order to reinforce.

Tl:Dr

Everything I mention is Lategame

Yes miss injection hurts early to midgame but the more hatcheries you make as the game goes on and in the late game where the only thing you really are producing is units.

No warpgates from gateway is not like addons of barracks not even close. You kill a tech lab or reactor you slowed down the production of the terran or outright stopped the production of a specific unit until it is rebuilt. Only way we can slow down a warpgate is snipe all pylons which is a lot harder than an addon.

Btw Chargelots are incredible so Idk what you are talking about if we dont micro against them it is bye bye army.
I have clearly stated in my first post if you would do something called reading stating different races are different . You on the other hand, want to try convince me that Terran is at the same level of production as a Zerg and Toss. Which is laughable because that is not even remotely close. Zerg can produce faster and Toss can reinforce faster those are their specific game designs


How can Toss reinforce faster?? I don't get it.

I guess we can warp in, at the battlefield, but that's just negates the travelling distance. Production time is still there. Not to mention, that non-warp gate units needs to be produced the same way as everything else.

Zerg can only mass produce when they are on lots of bases with many injects. And they have been saving larvae for a while.

No warp gates dont have any disadvantage compared to Barracks. You already expose what do you spend to turn a gateway to a warpgate a total of what ? 25 mins , oh wow that is so much equal than 50/50 reactor which takes much longer to make than a warp gate transformation and a 50/25 tech lab which also take a longer time to make than a warp gate transformation. So no it is not difficult. Do you have to have extra space to turn a gate way to a warp gate? No right? Do you need to position your gateways so all your units move out smoothly? No because you can warp in at any warp in location right? Why are you trying so hard to tell me your infrastructure is so difficult than a Terrans? What next are you going to tell me your blink micro is just as difficult as splitting marines from banes? Say it with me Different races are different.


You are an idiot. What is worse, you are a silver idiot. FIrst of all, waprgate is 50/50.

Second of all, you can add a reactor and produce TWICE as much marines. HOLY !@#$. TWICE AS MUCH. Also, do you need to position your baracks inside a pylon field?? I guess you've never dealt with a massive drop in your main, which kills all the pylons powering your gates and then thinking..."Well now what?".

Toss infrastructure is a lot more difficult, simply because you need a lot mroe APM to produce units. If I am in the battle, and need to produce more, I'll have to back to my pylon, and start warping units one by one. Terrans just need to press hot key for the baracks and then start producing units without ever looking back at their base. THAT"S A HUGE DEAL.

Also, once you get to at least platinum level, you can start saying micro. Since right now your idea of microing is:"Btw Chargelots are incredible so Idk what you are talking about if we dont micro against them it is bye bye army", then I don't see why you would even start mentioning micro in your post. L2P.
Why warp gates are better? You can make any gateway unit and they all warp in at the same time frame. We can only make Marines out reactors and either a Marauder or Ghost out tech labs all have different build times. So what does that all means? Well obviously we wont be producing the same amount of units as you are.


The logic...it is failing you.

Ghost built time is 40 seconds. HTs time cooldown is 45 seconds. We can make waves of units, but cooldowns are still there. How is it even possible for us to make more units???

Marine building time is 25 seconds., while cooldown for zealot is 28 seconds. For stalker is 28 seconds.

So overall, it is obvious that average building time of terrans units is a lot faster than toss units. Therefore, assuming same amount of gates\barracks, terran can produce more units.
01/29/2013 11:32 AMPosted by VELL
I have clearly stated in my first post if you would do something called reading stating different races are different . You on the other hand, want to try convince me that Terran is at the same level of production as a Zerg and Toss. Which is laughable because that is not even remotely close. Zerg can produce faster and Toss can reinforce faster those are their specific game designs


How can Toss reinforce faster?? I don't get it.

I guess we can warp in, at the battlefield, but that's just negates the travelling distance. Production time is still there. Not to mention, that non-warp gate units needs to be produced the same way as everything else.

Zerg can only mass produce when they are on lots of bases with many injects. And they have been saving larvae for a while.

No warp gates dont have any disadvantage compared to Barracks. You already expose what do you spend to turn a gateway to a warpgate a total of what ? 25 mins , oh wow that is so much equal than 50/50 reactor which takes much longer to make than a warp gate transformation and a 50/25 tech lab which also take a longer time to make than a warp gate transformation. So no it is not difficult. Do you have to have extra space to turn a gate way to a warp gate? No right? Do you need to position your gateways so all your units move out smoothly? No because you can warp in at any warp in location right? Why are you trying so hard to tell me your infrastructure is so difficult than a Terrans? What next are you going to tell me your blink micro is just as difficult as splitting marines from banes? Say it with me Different races are different.


You are an idiot. What is worse, you are a silver idiot. FIrst of all, waprgate is 50/50.

Second of all, you can add a reactor and produce TWICE as much marines. HOLY !@#$. TWICE AS MUCH. Also, do you need to position your baracks inside a pylon field?? I guess you've never dealt with a massive drop in your main, which kills all the pylons powering your gates and then thinking..."Well now what?".

Toss infrastructure is a lot more difficult, simply because you need a lot mroe APM to produce units. If I am in the battle, and need to produce more, I'll have to back to my pylon, and start warping units one by one. Terrans just need to press hot key for the baracks and then start producing units without ever looking back at their base. THAT"S A HUGE DEAL.

Also, once you get to at least platinum level, you can start saying micro. Since right now your idea of microing is:"Btw Chargelots are incredible so Idk what you are talking about if we dont micro against them it is bye bye army", then I don't see why you would even start mentioning micro in your post. L2P.


Okay lets me start off my just laughing did you just tell me your one time...one time ...ONE TIME RESEARCH is comparable to spending 50/50 or 50/25 on add ons every time? is that what you really just called me an idiot for ? Oh wow sir. It must be very difficult to spend 50/50 on tech one time to have it all through out the game....

The non warp gate units are only few in number within your army. Meaning that you can still have your core army back up before ours. You just have to wait for support units.

Yes it does make a difference. You lose your HT you can have all of them back in one cycle. That is the beauty about warpgates. Lose all your lots , hotkey click all warpgate just spam warp in most of them back. It does make a difference to have on demand reinforcement because you can still keep pushing . Just ask a zerg who is a victim of Immortal sentry all in with warprism .

Oh wow guys, Terran production is solve because we can produce two marines vs his 1 zealot that takes two rines to beat or incredible micro of one rine. Oh wow you have to place your tech in power fields sound so difficult.

I think I have covered most of your asinine argument.

I think I need to hold your hand on this logic.

CD for warp in is 45 sec but one single warp in can yield as the same # of units as warpgates you have in 5 seconds. So in that first warp in you have 10 gates meaning you have 10 HT on the field with 1 warp cycle. Now lets see on the opposite end. I have to have 10 racks with 10 tech labs to just accomplish this with 40 second build time. Thus what do we conclude here? You can have 10 HT out before my first ghost hit the field.
You on the other hand, want to try convince me that Terran is at the same level of production as a Zerg and Toss. Which is laughable because that is not even remotely close. Zerg can produce faster and Toss can reinforce faster those are their specific game designs.


I never said they had the same production; I pointed out why production across the board is BALANCED, which you don't seem to grasp since you believe that gateway units are so awesome. If you look at the volume of units that can be replenished in a given time, yes it takes terran longer to replenish that but that is because terran units are better pound for pound than their zerg and protoss counter parts.

01/29/2013 01:33 AMPosted by Who
I have acknowledge ,again if you read my post without your Toss bias , you would see I acknowledge Terran macro isnt that harder but our production is lacking compared to the other 2 races.


This is where your thinking is all backwards. You want to know why terrans don't get drop pods like in the campaign for barracks units? Because they are TOO powerful to be given a reinforcement advantage. This complete hounding in on ONE single aspect to make a statement is like saying "Look zealots are 2 supply, and 2 supply of zerglings beats my zealot :S ".

01/29/2013 01:33 AMPosted by Who
No warp gates dont have any disadvantage compared to Barracks.


Yes, yes they do. The units that come out of them (other than HT) are horrible to make up for the warp in mechanic which removes the defenders advantage.

The rest of that post is horrendous, you don't even know how much the warp gate research costs.

01/29/2013 01:33 AMPosted by Who
Why are you trying so hard to tell me your infrastructure is so difficult than a Terrans?


When did I ever say that? Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I am not trying to tell you that one race is more difficult, I am trying to give you perspective outside of your limited knowledge (which is evident in your posts so far).

01/29/2013 01:33 AMPosted by Who
No, again you are assuming here, we wont have the same amount of Barracks compared to your warpgates. Normally you would see what? 10-12 racks and 3 starports on 4 bases because all our units are mineral heavy (unlike your units that have better cost spread like high temps being gas heavy for example while ghost are mineral heavy like our bio army) .


You suggested that a protoss gets 25 gateways when earlier you said they can "warp in 50 supply". Of course protoss will have MORE gateways, because you don't produce out of those gateways 24/7. When you hit 200/200, you make more gateways/more hatches/more barracks. A terran doesn't need 25 barracks to equal the production of 25 gateways, these things called reactors are nifty little bonuses. Also, the fact that terran units are produced faster would allow less barracks as well.

Toss can what maintain 6-8 gates with a robo on 2 bases vs 6 racks and a starport . Out those gates you will be able to support HT and colossus out your robo. Ghost wont be seen really until a third mining base is establish.


You can only support those numbers if you are floating thousands of minerals and gas or are going for an all-in, high gateway counts can not and are not made to be sustained cycle after cycle. 2 base robo with 6-8 gates WITH HT really? I would love for my TvP's to go in that direction at 10:00 :D

01/29/2013 01:33 AMPosted by Who
(notice I mention 4 bases and 3 macro hatches *light bulb*).


I did notice, it is where you mentioned a 3 BASE TERRAN. If you are on 3 bases and your opponent is on 4 with 3 macro hatches, you're doing it wrong. I never said zerg doesn't stockpile larvae, again you are attacking me on false grounds. And lategame, a terran should be making more barracks for a remax and be sacking scvs for a larger army.

01/29/2013 01:33 AMPosted by Who
The whole reason for that is so while he is engaging he doesnt make any mistakes having to inject larva in order to reinforce.


It isn't a back up, its so they can remax FASTER, other than infestor broodlord (which takes a LONG time to get up and running to wait for morphing and energy replenishment) every other zerg composition is less powerful at 200/200 than a terran or protoss equivalent. A zerg player stocks up that larvae because chances are he is going to have to burn through more supply to kill or keep his opponent back.

01/29/2013 01:33 AMPosted by Who
Yes miss injection hurts early to midgame but the more hatcheries you make as the game goes on and in the late game where the only thing you really are producing is units.


...same goes for the other races by adding more barracks and gateways.
01/29/2013 12:07 PMPosted by Who
Oh wow you have to place your tech in power fields sound so difficult.


Yeah I got to say this is not an issue. Warping is the only thing that really requires creative use of power, but you should be building your base in such a way that it is completely covered in power. Pylons are like supply depots and by the time the midgame hits you'll have plenty of them to power your 15 buildings.
Only way we can slow down a warpgate is snipe all pylons which is a lot harder than an addon.


It takes longer, but let me know when one destroyed add on stops production COMPLETELY from multiple production buildings.

I think it is great you keep thinking I am biased, since I have started playing terran and all xD If I was protoss biased like you said, why am I advocating for the lack of protoss AND zerg representation in your one sided arguments?

You keep acting like having the POTENTIAL to replace huge numbers of supply automatically means you have the MONEY to replace that; you are constantly referring to warping in tons of HT at a time, if your resource production rate is enough to sustain 1200 gas like your "6 HT warp ins" either you have an equivalent income or you are playing terran horribly.

Keep arguing with me and that diamond player VELL, obviously we are the ones that are HORRIBLY WRONG in trying to convince you NOT to keep thinking of terran production with out accounting for their increased efficiency.
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Never said it was imbalance. Try again mate, I was not QQing my point was different races are different and one of Terran banes are production.

Where did I mention drop pods? Please highlight the post ? I acknowledge the warptech is needed for toss.

You seem so hell bent on convincing me everything is equal across the board which it isnt , it may be balance but it isnt equal across the board.
01/29/2013 12:12 PMPosted by fingrknitter
I never said they had the same production; I pointed out why production across the board is BALANCED, which you don't seem to grasp since you believe that gateway units are so awesome. If you look at the volume of units that can be replenished in a given time, yes it takes terran longer to replenish that but that is because terran units are better pound for pound than their zerg and protoss counter parts.


Just kind of a nitpick here. Terran bio is cost efficient but not really supply efficient.
01/29/2013 12:18 PMPosted by fingrknitter
Only way we can slow down a warpgate is snipe all pylons which is a lot harder than an addon.


It takes longer, but let me know when one destroyed add on stops production COMPLETELY from multiple production buildings.

I think it is great you keep thinking I am biased, since I have started playing terran and all xD If I was protoss biased like you said, why am I advocating for the lack of protoss AND zerg representation in your one sided arguments?

You keep acting like having the POTENTIAL to replace huge numbers of supply automatically means you have the MONEY to replace that; you are constantly referring to warping in tons of HT at a time, if your resource production rate is enough to sustain 1200 gas like your "6 HT warp ins" either you have an equivalent income or you are playing terran horribly.

Keep arguing with me and that diamond player VELL, obviously we are the ones that are HORRIBLY WRONG in trying to convince you NOT to keep thinking of terran production with out accounting for their increased efficiency.


I could care less what rank you are. Quite frankly you are not in the league the game is balance around and still have little understanding, same as me, of game balance which I am not arguing here. Just because you up in 2 league doesnt mean I should listen and agree with everything you say.

You contradicted yourself btw. Oh wow, you are higher league everyone should shut up and listen lol.

I should listen to the guy who told me 1 time research is equal to costs for putting on addons for every production structure .
Okay lets me start off my just laughing did you just tell me your one time...one time ...ONE TIME RESEARCH is comparable to spending 50/50 or 50/25 on add ons every time? is that what you really just called me an idiot for ? Oh wow sir. It must be very difficult to spend 50/50 on tech one time to have it all through out the game....


Yes it does. Because you 50/25 add on, is practically a new barrack. Warpgate allows me to warp in units anywhere on the field and removes on average 10 seconds faster. So basically every time you build an add-on, you get second barrack, once I get warp in I get 1/3 of a gateway. Well + ability warp in anywhere on the field.

You don't seem to understand that add on and warpins serve different purpose. The idea behind tech lab, is that you need additional investmen for each barack to produce higher tier units. That's like we need robotics bay to produce Colosi. It is not supposed to be compared to warp in.

Warp in is a huge hinderance, since we can't juse que units and have to go back and force to make them.

Yes it does make a difference. You lose your HT you can have all of them back in one cycle. That is the beauty about warpgates. Lose all your lots , hotkey click all warpgate just spam warp in most of them back. It does make a difference to have on demand reinforcement because you can still keep pushing . Just ask a zerg who is a victim of Immortal sentry all in with warprism .


I am really trying here, but your stupidity is overflowing.

Let's say we have 5 minutes of play and unlimited resources. You have 5 baracks (all with tech-lab for simplicity) and I have 5 warpgates.

Lets do HTs vs ghost. Or we can do whatever you want, since you are focusing on ghosts I think that's somewhat comparable. But we can do whatever you want later. Question: how many ghosts wil you make in 5 minutes, knowing that it takes 40 seconds to make one. Hint: The answer is 37.

Question: How many Hts will I be able to make in 5 minutes, knowing that gate cool down is 45 seconds.

Hint: answer is 33

So having same amount of gates, you can actually outproduce me in ghosts vs HTs. Now try this for other units and see what's up. If you think stalkers are direct counter for marines, we can try that one too.
Never said it was imbalance. Try again mate, I was not QQing my point was different races are different and one of Terran banes are production.


When did I accuse you of crying imbalance?

I am trying to tell you not to look at one supply of zerglings versus one supply of marines and be like "Awww but why does he get two (o___O) why don't I get two marines :'( " and instead realize that the advantage bought by having 1/2 supply units is balanced out by them being very weak and less effective en mass.

01/29/2013 12:19 PMPosted by Who
Where did I mention drop pods? Please highlight the post ? I acknowledge the warptech is needed for toss.


I NEVER said you mentioned drop pods. However you were trying to tell me there are NO cons to warp gates compared to barracks; which is a horrible statement. Again you fail to take into account WHY it is still balanced, that units made at the warpgate are WORSE than barracks units.

01/29/2013 12:19 PMPosted by Who
You seem so hell bent on convincing me everything is equal across the board which it isnt , it may be balance but it isnt equal across the board.


1+1+1+1=2^2=3+1=4

The end result is equal across the board, and trying to pull apart the function for this end result to find something that ISN'T exactly the same BUT when considered on the whole is perfectly valid is complete nonsense.

I am trying to convince you it is pointless and bad logic to pull apart an entire balanced END RESULT because of lack of linearity between the different races. You are an inch away from the mindless qq like "OMG OP MULES I WANT FREE WORKERS" because the OP of that thread didn't want to consider that scvs are produced the slowest AND have to build a large amount (if not the most) mineral based infrastucture.

01/29/2013 12:28 PMPosted by Rathelm
Just kind of a nitpick here. Terran bio is cost efficient but not really supply efficient.


It isn't nitpicking, its making a statement MORE correct by adding context and relevance. I want this kid to look at this statement and say "Hey, but bio is really mobile, and kiting sure makes a difference, applying it to its strengths makes it a worthy investment :D" similar to how you did.

I could care less what rank you are. Quite frankly you are not in the league the game is balance around and still have little understanding, same as me, of game balance which I am not arguing here. Just because you up in 2 league doesnt mean I should listen and agree with everything you say.


And I wouldn't want you to, I never would. However, it is better practice to give the benefit of the doubt or at least some THOUGHT to someone's ability to produce results in comparison to your own. You have to notice when two people, regardless of their league, both disagree that MAYBE there could be some misunderstanding on your end, or of the whole conversation. It is however, ignorant to think everyone under "Those who the game is balanced for" all have the same understanding of the game.

01/29/2013 12:28 PMPosted by Who
I should listen to the guy who told me 1 time research is equal to costs for putting on addons for every production structure .


Actually, I believe he corrected you on the cost of the research, since you didn't seem to know what it was.
Oh wow guys, Terran production is solve because we can produce two marines vs his 1 zealot that takes two rines to beat or incredible micro of one rine. Oh wow you have to place your tech in power fields sound so difficult.


I loled. Incredible micro. Yes. So first you don't micro against zealots...now you have to micro. Maaaan, this game is confusing.

Tell me more about silver micro and splitting units.

CD for warp in is 45 sec but one single warp in can yield as the same # of units as warpgates you have in 5 seconds. So in that first warp in you have 10 gates meaning you have 10 HT on the field with 1 warp cycle. Now lets see on the opposite end. I have to have 10 racks with 10 tech labs to just accomplish this with 40 second build time. Thus what do we conclude here? You can have 10 HT out before my first ghost hit the field.


I am sorry for you lack of skill. Now I am gonna give you an advice, which is going to propel you all the way into the platinum. Try to make units all the time. This way, I will not be able produce more HTs than you have ghosts.
01/29/2013 12:28 PMPosted by Rathelm
I never said they had the same production; I pointed out why production across the board is BALANCED, which you don't seem to grasp since you believe that gateway units are so awesome. If you look at the volume of units that can be replenished in a given time, yes it takes terran longer to replenish that but that is because terran units are better pound for pound than their zerg and protoss counter parts.


Just kind of a nitpick here. Terran bio is cost efficient but not really supply efficient.


At the same time, in meta-game terrans don't need the same amount of workers, because of mules. In fact in the really late game when they have 7+ orbitals, they just need to mine gas. So by that time they can actually use more supply for the army, while toss and zerg need to have a least 70 workers.
01/29/2013 12:40 PMPosted by VELL
Okay lets me start off my just laughing did you just tell me your one time...one time ...ONE TIME RESEARCH is comparable to spending 50/50 or 50/25 on add ons every time? is that what you really just called me an idiot for ? Oh wow sir. It must be very difficult to spend 50/50 on tech one time to have it all through out the game....


Yes it does. Because you 50/25 add on, is practically a new barrack. Warpgate allows me to warp in units anywhere on the field and removes on average 10 seconds faster. So basically every time you build an add-on, you get second barrack, once I get warp in I get 1/3 of a gateway. Well + ability warp in anywhere on the field.

You don't seem to understand that add on and warpins serve different purpose. The idea behind tech lab, is that you need additional investmen for each barack to produce higher tier units. That's like we need robotics bay to produce Colosi. It is not supposed to be compared to warp in.

Warp in is a huge hinderance, since we can't juse que units and have to go back and force to make them.

Yes it does make a difference. You lose your HT you can have all of them back in one cycle. That is the beauty about warpgates. Lose all your lots , hotkey click all warpgate just spam warp in most of them back. It does make a difference to have on demand reinforcement because you can still keep pushing . Just ask a zerg who is a victim of Immortal sentry all in with warprism .


I am really trying here, but your stupidity is overflowing.

Let's say we have 5 minutes of play and unlimited resources. You have 5 baracks (all with tech-lab for simplicity) and I have 5 warpgates.

Lets do HTs vs ghost. Or we can do whatever you want, since you are focusing on ghosts I think that's somewhat comparable. But we can do whatever you want later. Question: how many ghosts wil you make in 5 minutes, knowing that it takes 40 seconds to make one. Hint: The answer is 37.

Question: How many Hts will I be able to make in 5 minutes, knowing that gate cool down is 45 seconds.

Hint: answer is 33

So having same amount of gates, you can actually outproduce me in ghosts vs HTs. Now try this for other units and see what's up. If you think stalkers are direct counter for marines, we can try that one too.

I like how you back peddle your original claim of costs lmao.

Everytime I build a reactor I get a second barracks for my very very fragile marine, same reason Zerg produce 2 lings at a time. The very same reason we need to have reactors for vikings. If we didnt then no way we would be able to counter colossus in high numbers or trade evenly.
You dont seem to understand the difference here. You can warp in any units from any warpgate. I can only build my special units out of my tech lab barracks. You drop a dark shrine you can make x amount of Dt for x amount warp gate you have on the field . If I have 6 rax 2 reactored and 2 tech labs I can only make 3 rauders at a time if I want more rauders I need to invest in more production and more tech labs. See the difference?
The way this is balance is you have to drop the building for the unit first in order build it, so con- you need the building pro- you dont have to build specific production to make the unit.

Now let us get back to your asinine logic.

You can try all you want but still wont make your asinine logic right.

You can produce HT faster than us that is a fact. Now lets get to an actual scenario on 3 bases which is when you can see Ghost production fully swing. Terran will have at least 10 racks now not every one of those racks will have tech labs infact I can guarantee you probably only 4 will have tech labs. So in 5 minutes you will see around 30 ghosts on the field.

Now lets try this now with warp gates you can warp in same number of HT for the same number of warpgates. You have the resources and 10 gate ways. 5 mins is 7 cycles give or take a few seconds that 7 warp ins of 10 HT.

Waiting for warp gate cd is the trade off of having to wait 5 sec for unit warp.
01/29/2013 12:51 PMPosted by VELL


Just kind of a nitpick here. Terran bio is cost efficient but not really supply efficient.


At the same time, in meta-game terrans don't need the same amount of workers, because of mules. In fact in the really late game when they have 7+ orbitals, they just need to mine gas. So by that time they can actually use more supply for the army, while toss and zerg need to have a least 70 workers.


You actually have to do that if you want to continue to play bio at the high end. Once you hit 200/200 you build orbitals so you can dump SCVs and maintain the cost efficiency part of the army. Zerg can do something similar in the late game. If you're 5K minerals in the bank you can build a spine wall and build more infestors, broods, or whatever you need. Protoss is the only race that doesn't seem to do a probe dump, mainly because they don't have a way to quickly replace them or the lost income.


At the same time, in meta-game terrans don't need the same amount of workers, because of mules. In fact in the really late game when they have 7+ orbitals, they just need to mine gas. So by that time they can actually use more supply for the army, while toss and zerg need to have a least 70 workers.


You actually have to do that if you want to continue to play bio at the high end. Once you hit 200/200 you build orbitals so you can dump SCVs and maintain the cost efficiency part of the army. Zerg can do something similar in the late game. If you're 5K minerals in the bank you can build a spine wall and build more infestors, broods, or whatever you need. Protoss is the only race that doesn't seem to do a probe dump, mainly because they don't have a way to quickly replace them or the lost income.


They usually make up for this at beginning since it takes 1 drone to sacrifice itself for a building and you need 1 scv per building . Toss just need 1 probe off the line to warp in all its structures.
01/29/2013 12:52 PMPosted by Who
You can produce HT faster than us that is a fact. Now lets get to an actual scenario on 3 bases which is when you can see Ghost production fully swing. Terran will have at least 10 racks now not every one of those racks will have tech labs infact I can guarantee you probably only 4 will have tech labs. So in 5 minutes you will see around 30 ghosts on the field.


The issue still comes down to gas. This argument is constantly used against Zerg, but to bank that much gas you have to be giving up gas somewhere else. Same is true for the Protoss. If they're rebuilding HT then they aren't making colossus or getting upgrades, basically doing something else with their gas. This isn't to say that Protoss can't be annoying. :)

There is no doubt that it is frustrating as Terran to play against Protoss and not have the viking count due to bad scouting and then auto-lose because no amount of bio can crack 3+ colossi. Or you think they're going colossus get laxed on your scouting again and build 10 vikings only to see that they built one colossus and now have 6 HT instead storming the crap out of your army, and since you don't have the medivac count to keep anything alive its just a slaughter.

Sadly the Protoss has to deal with the same crap and it hurts them at the high end. Good Terran that can scout well and know what they're doing can pick a Protoss apart through superior micro (Protoss don't benefit as much from micro, just like Zerg really doesn't).

I hate how Protoss has so many 1-A units, but I know the losses are my own shortcoming and I'd feel sorry for someone that switches thinking it'll be easier only to work up the leagues to find out good opponents can pick you apart. Then having to learn a whole different skill set of different reinforcement strategies and how to split your army perfectly to deal with drops.

Actually, I believe he corrected you on the cost of the research, since you didn't seem to know what it was.


I was not speaking about the research what I said was turn a gate way into the warp gate. You know switching after the research is over. Similar to the small min cost to combine HT or DT for an archon.

Comparing a research to having to spend mins on every production is different which is why I didnt make the comparison. I wanted you to tell me what is the trade off for changing 1 gateway into a warpgate after you have the tech.
01/29/2013 01:10 PMPosted by Rathelm
You can produce HT faster than us that is a fact. Now lets get to an actual scenario on 3 bases which is when you can see Ghost production fully swing. Terran will have at least 10 racks now not every one of those racks will have tech labs infact I can guarantee you probably only 4 will have tech labs. So in 5 minutes you will see around 30 ghosts on the field.


The issue still comes down to gas. This argument is constantly used against Zerg, but to bank that much gas you have to be giving up gas somewhere else. Same is true for the Protoss. If they're rebuilding HT then they aren't making colossus or getting upgrades, basically doing something else with their gas. This isn't to say that Protoss can't be annoying. :)

There is no doubt that it is frustrating as Terran to play against Protoss and not have the viking count due to bad scouting and then auto-lose because no amount of bio can crack 3+ colossi. Or you think they're going colossus get laxed on your scouting again and build 10 vikings only to see that they built one colossus and now have 6 HT instead storming the crap out of your army, and since you don't have the medivac count to keep anything alive its just a slaughter.

Sadly the Protoss has to deal with the same crap and it hurts them at the high end. Good Terran that can scout well and know what they're doing can pick a Protoss apart through superior micro (Protoss don't benefit as much from micro, just like Zerg really doesn't).

I hate how Protoss has so many 1-A units, but I know the losses are my own shortcoming and I'd feel sorry for someone that switches thinking it'll be easier only to work up the leagues to find out good opponents can pick you apart. Then having to learn a whole different skill set of different reinforcement strategies and how to split your army perfectly to deal with drops.


That is true, I wont deny them having to be gas heavy however being mineral heavy isnt really good either. If you get denied a base which is easy to do if you a facing a zerg for example. Then you can see how hard it hits you. While Toss do have builds that utilize their gas dumps like the Immortal sentry or Chargelot Archon. I wish we had a gas dump beside the raven that can be utilize in a build such as those.
Which is one of the pros of Terran in TvP the mobility of Bio. Though I would say in a late game army engagement it usually favors their deathball as we need good position to engage.

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