What's With Plat?

Protoss Discussion
I have played quite a fair number of games this season and virtually every single protoss i have played since getting placed in plat has done a fe in pvp. It completely blows my mind, I have played gold leaguers that are smarter than this. I just see the 'nexus first' build, type LOL into chat and then 4gate = auto gg. Did I miss some sort of metagame announcement or is this standard?
Nope. You're just playing against people who don't know how to play PvP.
Nope,

golds are barely worse than plats and plats think they're smart, probably half of them rage that you *cheesed* vs nexus first, atleast I know I did (trollface)
Seriously, you're seeing Nexus first? I haven't encountered that yet.
Yeah it's either nexus first or a 1 gate expand and when i scout it I just lul bcause I realize I just won. Then they go "wow l2macro n00b" and I'm like 0_0
Haven;t seen this yet. i did see a forge fast expand into max chargelot off 10 gates that was cute.

But I haven't faced a nex first or 1 gate expo in forever.

That said i usually do an aggressive 2 gate expo. haha.
01/16/2013 07:05 PMPosted by BlackAdder
Seriously, you're seeing Nexus first? I haven't encountered that yet.


I once encountered someone who went Nexus First on Condemned Ridge. After the game, I proceeded to ask him if he really thought he could get away with it. XD
01/17/2013 02:20 AMPosted by EthanKairos
I once encountered someone who went Nexus First on Condemned Ridge. After the game, I proceeded to ask him if he really thought he could get away with it. XD

What's worst is when they do. One time I played against a 1G expand but my probe failed to find the gate (it was in a funny place), so I thought I was facing a proxy gateway attack. By the time I figured it out and switched to 4G (+Robo), my warpgate was way late and my economy substantially behind, so I got trounced. Then I proceeded to get BM'ed by this guy because "he was random and beat me at my own matchup". But usually, yeah, it's ok, I'll 4 gate you, next.
I've noticed that plats are just terrible cheesers.
That's mind-blowing...lol

At least in masters, they TRY to feign some kind of tech by showing you 2-5 stalkers before an expand :P
I played a protoss last night who tried to mothership rush me, in the middle of me 4gate-ing.
I was sitting there, and all of a sudden, a mothership popped out, he had no force behind it, but I was dumbfounded at how he tried to do it.
Silver league man.
01/16/2013 06:49 PMPosted by Paranoid
I have played quite a fair number of games this season and virtually every single protoss i have played since getting placed in plat has done a fe in pvp. It completely blows my mind, I have played gold leaguers that are smarter than this. I just see the 'nexus first' build, type LOL into chat and then 4gate = auto gg. Did I miss some sort of metagame announcement or is this standard?
Hm, I think I played you (probably custom game). You probably won.

It's not that you can't fast expand in PvP, you just have to micro properly and not mess up your macro at all. If you get supply blocked, you lose. If you get outmicroed or don't forcefield properly, you lose.

With ideal execution, the 2 gate robo fast expand is safe from everything except phoenix all-ins and warp prism all-ins (source: top protoss players on TL). So I feel that if I lose, it's my execution that's lacking. Even if you 4 gate me, if I'm thinking properly, I can retreat into my main and cancel the nexus (or if it's finished, sacrifice it, I have a tech and worker lead).

Edit: there are a large number of stupid protosses that try to nexus first or forge fast expand. Any competent player will never lose to those.
01/16/2013 06:49 PMPosted by Paranoid
I just see the 'nexus first' build, type LOL into chat and then 4gate = auto gg.


Some decent players can go nexus first and hold a 4gate; albeit sacrificing the natural. In fact, if I 17 nexus and you respond with 4 gate, I may actually end up ahead of you even after losing my expansion. I will be far ahead in probe lead, and use a couple of sentries to hold the 4 gate.

If however you were to do essentially any other type of allin or non allin 3 gate pressure then nexus first would lose haha.
01/17/2013 06:12 PMPosted by IIIIIIIIIIII
If however you were to do essentially any other type of allin or non allin 3 gate pressure then nexus first would lose haha.
You don't even need an all-in. Blink Obs or DT or DT drop ALL take a dump on Nexus first builds in PvP, especially after you do a Zealot/Stalker poke, which forces out a forge and cannons, or zealots, which limits minerals that can be used for making probes, and the very presence of those units in your natural implies that you cannot mine from your natural.

PvP Nexus first is dumb as a cucumber, unless your opponent does not know how to exploit it.
I played a protoss last night who tried to mothership rush me, in the middle of me 4gate-ing.
I was sitting there, and all of a sudden, a mothership popped out, he had no force behind it, but I was dumbfounded at how he tried to do it.
Silver league man.


That must have been either 1 of 2 things. An extremely fast, impossible mothership rush or a very BAD 4 gate
01/16/2013 07:25 PMPosted by Paranoid
"wow l2macro n00b"
Response: LRN2NOTDIE N00B L0L
That's mind-blowing...lol

At least in masters, they TRY to feign some kind of tech by showing you 2-5 stalkers before an expand :P


Eh. 2-Gate Expand isn't so much about feigning tech as it is making enough units to not straight up die to All-Ins. Of course, if you do it correctly, your opponent shouldn't be able to confirm that a Nexus went up before your Tech (usually Robo), but the fact remains that 2-Gate Tech is sub-optimal for anything other than Blink. At the very least, your opponent should know from scouting your 2-Gate opening that a fast expansion (5:30ish) is a very real possibility.
01/19/2013 07:06 AMPosted by MidKnight
Eh. 2-Gate Expand isn't so much about feigning tech as it is making enough units to not straight up die to All-Ins.
That's the other reason why you make stalkers before a nexus. But, normally, you are opening in a way that looks like a 3 stalker rush, a tech/3-4gate-ish opening (with cybercore, chronoboost and 1 gas), but isn't, of course, and you deny scouting with your stalkers, then plant a nexus down, which "fools" the other Protoss into straight up robo tech or something similar, and you can throw down a tech building after nexus immediately and be safe because you will see, by his sentry count whether he is trying to be defensive with Immortals, or aggressive with stalker/sentry.
I played a protoss last night who tried to mothership rush me, in the middle of me 4gate-ing.
I was sitting there, and all of a sudden, a mothership popped out, he had no force behind it, but I was dumbfounded at how he tried to do it.
Silver league man.


That must have been either 1 of 2 things. An extremely fast, impossible mothership rush or a very BAD 4 gate


I actually don't know why he didn't leave, I killed his main force, he had 2 cannons at his ramp, I don't really remember the specifics, but it was my 4th time 4gate-ing or so, it was on newkirk, and when I went to his base, he had 2 gateways, a cyber, a stargate, and fleet beacon, and his force was essentially a sentry, a couple zealots and stalkers, and one phoenix.
Your post is a general assumption that all plats do this.

However, if I see a toss opponent, I immediately go to 4 gate, keep my scouting probe alive, drop my proxy pylons, and 4gate for the win.

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