AntigaShipyard 1.5.3 Balance v2.0 Discussion

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Question. Why is it that Zerg needs to be discouraged from using large infestor armies late game? What else are we supposed to use?
Ultras aren't very good in the REALLY late game, and are generally clunky at the best of times.

Broodlords are too slow to invest a large amount of supply in, you'll never be able to retreat and save them fast enough or return to your base and deal with a counter attack in time. Not to mention everyone ALREADY complaining about broodlords, imagine how bad it will be if everyone has to use them to make up even more of their late game army.

I understand that with infested terrans, zerg is basically killing units for free (energy), but if you nerf infestors too hard, zerg will have to resort to purely early game strategy.

What if infested terrans only got HALF of the benefit of the upgrades. Ie, at +1 ranged attacks, infested terrans get +0.5. When +2 range is upgraded, infested terrans only get +2. When +3 range is upgraded, infested terrans get +1.5. Then the same for carapace.

You could reason that because the Infested terrans aren't TRUE zerg organisms, they wouldn't receive the full effect of zerg evolution. The still have human biology.

Thoughts?
Question. Why is it that Zerg needs to be discouraged from using large infestor armies late game? What else are we supposed to use?
Ultras aren't very good in the REALLY late game, and are generally clunky at the best of times.

Infestors are a caster meant for two niche roles:
-Supporting other combat units like Banelings against units like Marines that they have trouble closing in against. Basically general-purpose immobilization of enemy units so that allied units are more effective.
-Providing additional anti-air to supplement Corruptors and/or Hydralisks.
They ended up with this "build this fix all" role because they are simply too powerful for their normal roles. Ghost Snipe was nerfed for similar reasoning in TvZ; however, Snipe was nerfed in such a way that it is now redundant with EMP, which makes the Ghosts undesirable outside of TvP.

01/15/2013 02:22 PMPosted by PcaKes
Broodlords are too slow to invest a large amount of supply in, you'll never be able to retreat and save them fast enough or return to your base and deal with a counter attack in time. Not to mention everyone ALREADY complaining about broodlords, imagine how bad it will be if everyone has to use them to make up even more of their late game army.

Fewer Infestors, more Corruptors, more Brood Lords, or more non-infestor ground units to take up space under the army. Zerglings or Hydralisks would actually be quite good down there, and before you shout that Hydralisks suck, remember that your composition is basically eliminating the Siege Tanks, Colossus, and Hellions that make it "suck", and fewer other units will be focused on damaging the Hydralisks. Without focus on the Hydralisks, they are free to attack away like the little glass cannons that they are.

Basically, I am suggesting experimenting with adjustments to the BroodLord+Infestor composition. Fewer Infestors, more of something else. Use the Infestors for their snare, and some but less damage.
Finally after all this time! Thanks Blizzard! Excellent changes!
have had several games on the playtest map, i play almost exclusively Terran (only plat so take this for what its worth) and after having to deal with the fact that we no longer have a solid Air counter to the Zerg air army (with seaker missiles AOE nerf) and need to go much stronger ground army to survive, this causes situations where the zerg will have the corrupter mass to absolutely murder any vikings/banshees/ravens (PDD kinda of helps but energy is depleated in 1 corrupter volly at this point) in your main army (which is normally followed by medivacs die'ing/running so not healing or being useful in any way) and the 3-5 Broodloards forcing the tanks where ever they want makes it easy for them to flood in with ling/bain/whatever else they happen to build (cause at this point in the engagement anything zerg helps)... in MOST of my ladder games i would die at this moment because the whatever else i noted would be infestors just spamming Infested terrans till thats all thats on the screen and follow up with a flood of T1 and T2 units and just bludgeon the terran to death , i have played as zerg on the ladder just to know what this felt like and it was quite easy to do in my opinion.

Now with this patch in effect (granted my opponents built/ used so few infestors) i crushed this engagement so hard it wasent even funny, the DPS of my units was much more maximized on the zerg swarm and not just drilling at infested terrans, also my T1 units (being on 2-2/2-3 most of theses engagements i found could actually survive the infested terrans until the bainlings got to the fight) basic the zerg HAD to start spending units to clear out my armies, and was able to clear the ground quite nicely so i could push up with marine merdivac thor and deal with the air swarms. for once i had a strong feeling of "hey, i can macro against zerg" and now i want to play longer games, i want to see how they can evolve to battle this slandered terran play in a much more innovative way than just surrounding and running in with ling first.
RIP Zerg, back to terran
Ya like others said this is a good change for mech and toss. But does not do much of anything for bio. Plz consider making fungal a slow instead of root.
As for the zerg QQ. I have watched games where IT's were traded for whole army's ... Thats just not right. This unit literally counters everything even cloaked units. It needs to be nerfed its literally destroying this game.
This doesnt change anything. Infested terrans are there to soak up the ridiculous splash damage from protoss while our other units do damage and survive. Roaches are too squishy to combat zealot stalker immortal colossus, and roach corrupter is a joke. You cant make enough of either to survive. Most players have completely stopped going mass infestor because of the range change alone, infact I only see it in zvz and thats uncommon since I play mutas. If you want people to stop using infestors remove them, they will always have a place in games. Infested terran harass is good vs any matchup. Fungal delays very well and will continue to do so in hots, even with the projectile.

I said this on reddit when range was nerfed and ill post it here aswell. Fungal should either be changed to a slow, or the required energy for infested terrans should be raised to 50. With the energy increase you would need to slightly buff them so that they can still combat air play decently in the mid game, but not so much that 1 buffed is the same as 2 normal. They would continue to soak damage, but you wouldnt see the mass use of them anymore since they would be more durable. Zerg would be able to both soak splash damage and produce enough cost efficient units to actually combat protoss.
YES
01/15/2013 05:28 PMPosted by Mach
This doesnt change anything. Infested terrans are there to soak up the ridiculous splash damage from protoss while our other units do damage and survive.

Many high level protoss were getting ranged upgrades simply because they affected Infested Terrans, particularly with mass Festor builds.
This change actually has a pretty significant impact. With good upgrades, the rapid attack speed of ITs and the high armor of Toss units makes their battle impact extremely limited in the lategame.

Excellent change from Blizzard.
01/11/2013 06:06 PMPosted by TBo
Okay so infestors have been nerfed yet again, so now you need to buff another zerg unit so we can deal with protoss air deathballs. That probably won't happen though because protoss will cry more and we'll just receive further nerfs lol. Oh well, 11 real life friends are switching to terran or protoss in hots, and 4 are quitting the game until balance has been reached, so gratz blizzard!


Lmao, all hell is over and Mr.Connections here has left anew inertia
I personally haven't had much luck against high diamond to Master Protoss players using infestors, even though the mass roach and lings were upgraded the forcefields picked them apart and infested terran eggs died before hatching, that happened to me in 3 different engagements.
ILL have to see if pros can make it work, if pros can make it work then I don't have a problem.
My current suggestion, maybe Blizzard can limit ITs upgrades to only level 1/1 for weapon and armor instead of no upgrades at all.
I think as of right now ILL have to play a few more games to see if Infestors still work but ITs are not really working for me at the moment.
doesnt the korean players smash with zerg. where in england its toss and here its terran. from what i can tell its just how you use the units. stop being lazy and micro your little !@#$ing fingers off
1st nerf: neural parasite range
2nd nerf: fungal growth damage and range
3rd nerf: infested terran

2 years, I've been waiting for Blizz to nerf colossus and force field ......
1st nerf: neural parasite range
2nd nerf: fungal growth damage and range
3rd nerf: infested terran

2 years, I've been waiting for Blizz to nerf colossus and force field ......

And it wont ever happen. Colossus are definitely fine and force-fields are so essential for a protoss to survive an onslaught of zerglings, roaches, marines and marauders, what have you. Unlike the other races, protoss just cant sac units and still be in stable condition.
Forcefields are essential. So are infestors. One gets nerfed.
Seriously Blizzard, with all the problems in HoTS this is the one( that most players didn't think was a problem, Also if you do make this change then in my mind i would have to see the same change be done to the interceptor. Oh wait can't touch the carrier because where would sc2 be without it) And don't tell me that's not the same.

how about you let me click my opponents buildings/units so i can know the building that is being made right then and there instead of having to re-scout becuase i lost my overload the first time, how about looking into the range of the immortal, how about actually deal with the issue the community is bringing to you.

I do not understand what direction you are trying to take this game in but if you haven't notice that SC2 is dying, and its not cause of boredom.

I don't know about the rest of you but HoTS well be the turning point for me,
see? they just try to make up stuff that they are not gonna do ever
01/19/2013 09:56 AMPosted by AlrgcToZmbz
Forcefields are essential. So are infestors. One gets nerfed.


Based on gameplay before Infestors became popular, Infestors are not really "essential". They aren't a "build this or die" unit like the Sentry.

The Infestors is very good, has an intended niche, and is general purpose. But it was simply performing too well, and this shows by the fact that it has become a general purpose unit, rather than being used for its niches like other casters.

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