Approach to playing vs Random player?

Zerg Discussion
Just curious how you guys approach a game vs Random players. My MMR is putting me up against high silver and gold opponents now and it seems like just about every random player at my level is either going to do some sort of cheese build (proxy 2 rax, bunker rush, ect.) or a one base all in. My thoughts have been to start doing a 10 or 12 pool or something and to be agressive with lings to try and snoop out what they are doing to shut it down?

Just curious to the way some of you more experienced players did vs randoms at my level
it's tempting to do an early pool when you are a new player vs random, but there is really no reason to do this. send out and early scout, figure out what's going on, and respond appropriately. odds are you will win most of your games vs random based purely on the fact that random players are generally not very good and only get by in their current league by cheesing their opponents with an unknown race.
01/26/2013 04:36 PMPosted by Mug
it's tempting to do an early pool when you are a new player vs random, but there is really no reason to do this. send out and early scout, figure out what's going on, and respond appropriately. odds are you will win most of your games vs random based purely on the fact that random players are generally not very good and only get by in their current league by cheesing their opponents with an unknown race.


Wow, what a sweeping generalization about random players. Most random players don't cheese every game.

First off, I'd always drone scout around 10. It'll get to their base more quickly than your observer and can give an early warning for cheese like proxy play or 6 pools.

I actually like 10 pool openings, apparently they're very popular right now on the Korean server. If you resume droning after the first 6-8 lings you build, you can get a solid economy going. If the opponent isn't walled off or well defended, you can do some serious damage. Don't lose those lings unless you do significant damage though, otherwise you'll surrender the map control you gained by doing an early pool.

I also like 14gas/14pool -> speedlings for being fairly economic while potentially providing a strong ling all in against vulnerable opponents or at the very least map control.

Mug was correct in saying that you don't need to early pool. Hatch first builds can hold pretty much everything.
01/26/2013 04:36 PMPosted by Mug
it's tempting to do an early pool when you are a new player vs random, but there is really no reason to do this. send out and early scout, figure out what's going on, and respond appropriately. odds are you will win most of your games vs random based purely on the fact that random players are generally not very good and only get by in their current league by cheesing their opponents with an unknown race.


Those Randoms don't deserve the title! We TRUE Randoms play all 3 races and actually try to Macro and improve!

Challenge me if you really think that's true.

01/26/2013 04:29 PMPosted by Ozinator
either going to do some sort of cheese build (proxy 2 rax, bunker rush, ect.) or a one base all in.


Step one is you Drone Scout once your first Overlord is building at 9 supply, that'll let you spot his race, and if he's doing anything fishy.

If you can't scout him in time on those big 4 spawn maps, I'd go a blind 11 Pool 18 Hatch 18 gas, adjust as needed.

It's early enough to fend off dumb things like 6 Pool, or any proxies, but if you scout an economic opening, then it's economic enough to put you on par with a 1 rax expand or FFE if you dedicate straight to Drones after 2 sets of lings to watch for anything suspicious.

Responding to some common cheese:

6 Pool: Start a Spine Crawler, then Drone Drill and fight with Drones carefully until the Lings hatch

10 Pool: Same thing as above, just expect those Lings to possibly have Speed

Against Terran and Protoss: Your first 4 lings should be scouting EVERYWHERE to watch for anything fishy

Proxy 2 Rax: Make a Spine, then Swarm him with Lings. Don't let him kill your expo, pull Drones if you have to, just be careful not to lose too many

Proxy 2 Gate: This is probably the most dangerous. Key is Spines, Lings, and Queens until you've got Roaches, unless you manage to spot it in time to kill the pylon
Random players affect cheesers the most. You can't cannon rush a random players if he's zerg and you can't 6 pool a terran. If you attempt a 10 pool it will work against zerg, but not terran or protoss.
Your best bet is to scout, expand, macro and put up some spine crawlers. If you see him about to go all-in, pop some more spine crawlers down.
i scout with my 10th drone vs any random player. don't screw your own build by doing an early pool, vs someone who may just be playing standard. not every random player is going to cheese.
gl :)
not every random is cheesing, but 90% of them do. and if they arent cheesing theres a 33% chance he is going to be playing his best race, ontop of that there is a 3.6% chance he is going to get his best matchup. and a 33% chance your going to get your best matchup.

using this calculation there is a 3.6% chance your opponent will be at the top of his game where as you have a 33% chance. so there is a 10.9% chance your opponent will get a varourable outcome of playing random.

so really your chances of having an advantage over your random opponent are approx 90%, just scout at 10ish with drone to see what race he is and play accordingly. the only real advantage of playing random is your cheese is unknown, if your playing macro your at a disadvantage. which is why 90% of randoms cheese.
10 scout your Drone. Send your first OL to their Natural. Send the second one to your natural to check for cheese.
I either 6 pool or straight up leave immediately. I see no reason to play a "legitimate" game against someone who starts with an advantage. All my 4 player maps are vetoed so that I don't waste time. If you do 6 pool send a drone about 10 seconds before the pool finishes right to his ramp and deny his wall off if he is terran, or make a spine if he is zerg.

And no, it's physically impossible to scout him by the time you need to make certain build decisions, so either you get lucky or play from behind.
I'd say drone up to 9/10 food and while you're building your OL, send a drone to scout. From there you can choose which build order to go with depending on their race.
01/28/2013 08:44 PMPosted by Luckylou
I'd say drone up to 9/10 food and while you're building your OL, send a drone to scout. From there you can choose which build order to go with depending on their race.
It's already too late by then.
01/28/2013 10:55 PMPosted by Geo
I'd say drone up to 9/10 food and while you're building your OL, send a drone to scout. From there you can choose which build order to go with depending on their race.
It's already too late by then.


On a 4p map maybe. But remember the other player has to scout too. And the fact that you're zerg means they are having a dilemma similar to the one you're having because they don't know if you fast pooled or not. And unless they're terran, that has major build implications.
On a 2p map a 10 scout is fine every time. You will still have the opportunity to choose between 15 pool or 15 hatch. There is no build in the game that will automatically beat a zerg who 15 pools.
And I can't speak for all randoms but personally I play FE every game (but pool-first as zerg) to take advantage of the other player's uncertainty and the shortcuts they might take in order to scout me earlier or play safer.
Open 14p 16h. /thread
01/28/2013 11:29 PMPosted by Obamarauder
You will still have the opportunity to choose between 15 pool or 15 hatch.
No you don't. if they don't send a scout to meet you in the middle you won't see his race in time to decide to pool or hatch first.

Where do I send my 1st and 2nd overlord? If I send it on a zerg or toss scouting path it will die to a Terran. If I send them on a terran safe path they most likely won't be able to see what they need to see or get into position for later.

01/28/2013 11:29 PMPosted by Obamarauder
There is no build in the game that will automatically beat a zerg who 15 pools.
It's called a bunker rush. If you don't hatch first he can freely put down bunkers at your natural and contain you or bunker walk into your main. Also 15 pool may not automatically lose to a standard Terran build but it puts you behind right from the beginning of the game.

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