I suck vs zerg and i'm in gold league.

Terran Discussion
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My winrate is probably about 30% what should I be doing vs zerg? What are some pointers you experts can give me? I need some general things and specifics to keep in my whilst playing zerg.
im not an expert or anything but early pressure?
Style is all up to personal preference. Here are some tips given to me by high masters terran and zerg players:

Never fight on creep. Whether you contain creep or clear creep, avoid army engaging on creep. It gives Z vision of hwat you are doing and when to strike. Clear creep and pull back until the ground clears up.

Hit expos, not natural or main. You want to deny Zerg economy and esp his gas mining so hit peripheral expos. No need to risk your entire army attempting to end the game.

Make sure to macro and army re-supply ASAP. This is important because in mid-late game zerg stockpiles larvae to instantly re-max army to overwhelm you. Zerg is strongest in the 1st and 2nd fights since he has the larvae to remake the army he wants. Starting from the 3rd fight and on, if you traded efficiently, you should be whittling down his larva count and his forces should get progressively weaker. This explains why Bomber prefers to go for a 3 base-all in because he wants to never let up the pressure.

TRADE EFFICIENTLY. Split your forces and never get mass chain fungaled.

Be creative with supply depots and wall off space as much as you can. Supply depot walls can save an entire mineral line from being wrecked by a pack of lings.
01/30/2013 05:40 PMPosted by ICEdKing
Never fight on creep. Whether you contain creep or clear creep, avoid army engaging on creep. It gives Z vision of hwat you are doing and when to strike. Clear creep and pull back until the ground clears up.


Actually you don't have to pull back. Its the creep tumors that give the vision, not the creep itself.
01/30/2013 07:47 PMPosted by Rathelm
Actually you don't have to pull back. Its the creep tumors that give the vision, not the creep itself.


Actually I'm wondering now if the speed boost is because of the creep or the tumors. I guess what I'm asking is does the speed boost immediately disappear in the tumor area after its killed or does it slowly fade out like the creep itself.
Now, I'm technically worse than you, but I have some good advice that lets me get the win against Zerg every time.

First off, get more bases. Against Zerg, their biggest advantage is their macro ability. You need to expo for gas, and deny his expansions.

Next, use Hellions efficiently. You want to do run-bys, drops, whatever, to barrages his workers. You need to keep that low.

Next, use the time your Hellions bought you efficiently, and make Thors. Yes, I know they are bad units, but they effectively counter most Zerg units. Mix in hellions to prevent any Zerglings surrounds, and bring in Vikings against Brood Lords.

Finally, remember that you need to keep pressure going, as, just like another poster above me said, they can remax instantly, so try to destroy both armies, scan for creep, and contain him. If you feel confident that he has nothing left, storm his natural, and take the main if your feeling up to it, otherwise, keeping a Zerg on 2 bases will secure you an easy victory!

Oh, and try not to get mass fungal'd.
My personal suggestion, if you haven't already, try mech out.

Reason's I suggest this are:

Fungal, not really an issue compared to bio (in general)

Banelings, splitting marines is not something you have to shoot yourself over now

Gives the potential to harass during the early/midgame

From personal experience, I have watched too many death animations from my marines, and mech in TvZ seems to function so great because it is based on hard counters (hellion versus ling, siege tanks versus roach etc) and to me at least seems to be much harder to deal with as zerg (no banelings, not as many infestors).

Make sure to squeeze a raven into your push though, burrow roaches will be the end of you ;)

There have been some really great mech builds posted here recently so look those up, but just basics:

fast expand

hellion banshee harass

double upgrade

thors for 10:00 mutas

fast third

Huge pre-hive push
01/30/2013 08:04 PMPosted by ICEdKing
Actually you don't have to pull back. Its the creep tumors that give the vision, not the creep itself.


Actually I'm wondering now if the speed boost is because of the creep or the tumors. I guess what I'm asking is does the speed boost immediately disappear in the tumor area after its killed or does it slowly fade out like the creep itself.


I'm not for certain. I'd guess that as long as there's creep you'd get the speed bonus. Overlord creep spewing gives you the speed.
01/30/2013 05:40 PMPosted by ICEdKing
Never fight on creep.


Until it's over the entire map in under 15 minutes.
01/31/2013 04:36 PMPosted by Dhark
Never fight on creep.


Until it's over the entire map in under 15 minutes.


I didn't know Scarelet played in platinum, I haven't run into that level of creep spread yet thankfully :S
01/31/2013 05:29 PMPosted by fingrknitter


Until it's over the entire map in under 15 minutes.


I didn't know Scarelet played in platinum, I haven't run into that level of creep spread yet thankfully :S


for the most part the creep spread in gold is just connecting their bases and a little bit down fromthere but ive had some random games where they have like half the map by 14 mins, hate fighting on creep so much

i may start throwing in a fast raven after my first 2 medivacs and just have creep clearing crews of mm that can pick up and jet out if they need too. in almost all my tvzs my army supply is bigger and a better comp and i still lose due to bad engaging and posistioning and stim running in on creep only to be fungaled, or surrounded or both.

its hard to find the balance of being patient enough to clear creep and engage well and being to passive and running into a blord festor deathball
02/01/2013 09:05 AMPosted by raiderryan
for the most part the creep spread in gold is just connecting their bases and a little bit down fromthere but ive had some random games where they have like half the map by 14 mins, hate fighting on creep so much


If they have half the map by 14 I'd think you were playing against a smurf.
02/01/2013 10:26 AMPosted by Rathelm
If they have half the map by 14 I'd think you were playing against a smurf.


With zero pressure I dont think that requires much skill since 4 queen or even 6 queen openers are quite popular. Hellion banshee should be able to hold creep back all the way until around 11min if they do use mutas to force you back.

A lot of people go mech after hellion banshee but they forget its quite easy to put down 2 engibay and go bio and transition perfectly fine into the mid game.
02/01/2013 10:51 AMPosted by ICEdKing
If they have half the map by 14 I'd think you were playing against a smurf.


With zero pressure I dont think that requires much skill since 4 queen or even 6 queen openers are quite popular. Hellion banshee should be able to hold creep back all the way until around 11min if they do use mutas to force you back.

A lot of people go mech after hellion banshee but they forget its quite easy to put down 2 engibay and go bio and transition perfectly fine into the mid game.


Point is though, the total capacity of a gold player is not to spread good creep AND be hitting their injects, macroing and microing properly and what not.

If we assume this zerg opponent belongs in Gold, and he covers that map with creep as detailed by a number by 15 or 14 minutes than the rest of his game is going to be horrible.

What I mean to say is, there is no capacity for a gold league player to have creep spread like that AND be a formidable opponent, otherwise they wouldn't be in gold. I hit 47 scvs at 10:00 yesterday in a game hitting EVERY production cycle (nearly) for a TvP stim timing, I hit every macro movement dead on.

However, I managed to lose one of my armies completely to HT storm. I outproduced him with macro but it stands, my league is a representation of my combined efforts. If I have the control of MKP but am in silver, my macro sucks accordingly. If I can hit every inject to 12:00 not missing a drone or overlord, but am in platinum, my micro and game sense is poor accordingly.
Personnally in TVZ i like to think as if im a zerg myself, You want to cripple his econemy and get no more than 3+ bases. If you can outmacro the zerg ie: He has 2 base you have 3. Then you can usually win. Except when it comes to baneling attacks. If he is doing that, You should load up parts of your force and attack his tech buildings ( Go for spire and nest above all and then the lair ) Harassing zerg is my key to winning
Marine Marauders and medivacs

It's not super technical as Marine/tank/medivacs, but it's still very tanky against zerg. If Mech is too hard and uncomfortable for you, I suggest you just pump out endless MMM's.

Obviously, you want to have some splitting skills to be optimal but it's alright even if you dont have the godly-micro. Marauders are very good because they can tank for very long.

So when you see a swarm of zerg units, you can just stim and A-move. If you see many banelings, infenstors, try to split the army. (or at least double click and select all the marines, and pull them behind the marauders)
02/01/2013 11:37 AMPosted by fingrknitter


With zero pressure I dont think that requires much skill since 4 queen or even 6 queen openers are quite popular. Hellion banshee should be able to hold creep back all the way until around 11min if they do use mutas to force you back.

A lot of people go mech after hellion banshee but they forget its quite easy to put down 2 engibay and go bio and transition perfectly fine into the mid game.


Point is though, the total capacity of a gold player is not to spread good creep AND be hitting their injects, macroing and microing properly and what not.

If we assume this zerg opponent belongs in Gold, and he covers that map with creep as detailed by a number by 15 or 14 minutes than the rest of his game is going to be horrible.

What I mean to say is, there is no capacity for a gold league player to have creep spread like that AND be a formidable opponent, otherwise they wouldn't be in gold. I hit 47 scvs at 10:00 yesterday in a game hitting EVERY production cycle (nearly) for a TvP stim timing, I hit every macro movement dead on.

However, I managed to lose one of my armies completely to HT storm. I outproduced him with macro but it stands, my league is a representation of my combined efforts. If I have the control of MKP but am in silver, my macro sucks accordingly. If I can hit every inject to 12:00 not missing a drone or overlord, but am in platinum, my micro and game sense is poor accordingly.


Nail on the head here. I think that's why there's a lot of OP complaints about the different races too. Different races have difficulties at different times. As an example, it seems to me that Protoss to get to the 10 minute mark and life in TvP is much harder than for the Terran. So Protoss players in lower leagues complain that Terran is OP. However once they have that figured out and can hold the 10 minute 2 medivac push then Terran players complain that Protoss is OP because now they, the Terran, have to learn how to play the next 10 minutes. This goes back and forth. This game requires a tremendous amount of back and forth and the only players that can truly talk about balance are the higher masters.
02/01/2013 03:15 PMPosted by Rathelm
Nail on the head here. I think that's why there's a lot of OP complaints about the different races too. Different races have difficulties at different times. As an example, it seems to me that Protoss to get to the 10 minute mark and life in TvP is much harder than for the Terran. So Protoss players in lower leagues complain that Terran is OP. However once they have that figured out and can hold the 10 minute 2 medivac push then Terran players complain that Protoss is OP because now they, the Terran, have to learn how to play the next 10 minutes. This goes back and forth. This game requires a tremendous amount of back and forth and the only players that can truly talk about balance are the higher masters.


Actually I played that game I described above in HotS so I am going to look for people to try resuming it with and work on my micro and game sense (since my macro was pretty much perfect there, the best it has ever been) because of that cool thing in hots where you can RESUME a replay as one of the players (I would resume myself and someone else would resume my opponent) just when my drop got turned back, I think that is where it turned south (I should have gone for the natural too but chickened out :S). I gotta practice my storm dodging lol.
i was stuck vs zerg for awhile and ive been using polts 9 minute hellion marauder push and have been thrilled so far. was hopingto just snipe 3rds and delay some tech and im actually straight up winning a lot of games with the push and always atleast killing the third and some drones at the natural.

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