Terran Ghost super OP?

Protoss Discussion
I am a gold level player and for some reason just cannot defeat a terran that goes ghost. By the time I get high templar along with my colossi, he will have ghosts in his bio ball. EMP destroys all my energy for psi storm and wipes out all my armies shields instantly. Even if I separate my templars, he is still able to wipe out half the life of all my units, 100 damage to shields instantly.

Do I just forget about templars and use that money towards mass colossi when he goes ghost?

because ghosts basically completely hard counters templars. makes them useless and a waste. I know there is feedback, but I mean cmon, I'd have to click feedback onto that skinny ghost hidden in the bioball, when he could just emp me much more successfully. also, and no archons are super weaksauce, they are a melee unit and are highly weak against emp and Range units.

how do you counter a 10-12 ghost terran MMM/viking ball???

My units die so fast because their life is halved instantly.
A late game t vs p should be a zealot/templar/colossi and some archon/stalker. Because of EMP, you don't want to simply A- move into ghosts, unless you have plenty of storms. Poke in poke out to force emps, drop storms if he chases. Back up if you get hit with emps, push if he has too few ghosts/vikings and adjust your composition based on his. Zealot warpins to harass, keep active on maps and snipe expos while keeping yours, etcetcetc.

Also keep obs nearby. Speed obs are very useful, if its late game it is certainly worth getting.
Split your HT.
01/30/2013 08:18 PMPosted by TechNo
Split your HT.


This.

I actually have a lot of problems myself because I get lazy and cluster everything together. And that's against high diamond and low masters terran. Splitting your high templar and army apart is probably the single most important thing you can do prior to engaging a terran.

People always talk about the protoss deathball, but it really sucks against emp. You have to spread your army or die. If everything gets emp'd bioballs just toast everything.
Pvt in my eyes is if they make ghost you make colossus. If they make vikings you make blink stalkers.
If you're losing to ghosts in the lower leagues I would say that the bigger problem is your economy is further behind than the Terran's. Ghosts are pretty expensive as Terran units go and not a particularly ideal unit. MMM is much stronger than using your tech lab barracks to make ghosts instead of marauders.
thanks, this is useful.
I'm talking about late game. in late game, protoss will have both colossus and HT in the ball, and terran will have viking and ghosts in their ball.
How do you lose at that point? With enough HT you can storm the Vikings keeping your colossus much safer and possibly hitting ghosts. Also don't you have at least one observer hanging out with your army just in case the ghosts cloak?
01/31/2013 10:08 AMPosted by Rathelm
How do you lose at that point? With enough HT you can storm the Vikings keeping your colossus much safer and possibly hitting ghosts. Also don't you have at least one observer hanging out with your army just in case the ghosts cloak?


Terran scans your army. Ghosts snipe observer. Ghosts cloak, walk forward and emp all the templar and zealots and then run away.

Vikings fly in and start taking potshots at colossus. Bio army stims forward and starts attacking. Once the battle starts bio starts kiting away from any remaining templar and colossus. The shieldless zealots slowly melt as they chase down the bio army which is out of range of any AOE. Meanwhile cloaked ghosts off to the side start sniping templar or shooting colossus. Then the bio army stims forward to chase down any slow retreating templar or colossus or transforming archons.

During this whole battle there's zealots warping in at a proxy pylon attacking terrans latest base while new terran reinforcements try to defend it. A medivac also flew around and is dropping a protoss base while the protoss warps in units to defend. Both players try to rally any new units not harassing or defending harassment to their main army.

That is what I consider typical late game pvt. It's very hard to beat terrans that have a significant ghost and viking count. Especially since storms do very little to ghosts and they can take zealots or stalkers 1v1 especially with emp.

This is why so much of the battle comes down to HT vs Ghost micro and storm/emp dodging.
I have horrible micro so I've learned a few strategic tips to compensate.

One thing that works really well all the way up through diamond:

If you have 2 fairly evenly matched armies that are about to engage and are ~one screen apart or so, something that happens fairly often, protoss often will wait for the terran to come to them so they can engage with their cannons and have better positioning etc.

Don't do this!

When the two armies are close but not fighting, and you get scanned, this is when he's microing his ghosts to try to emp your templars and important units and lower your shields. He's also microing his vikings to try to get early shots off on your colossi. Basically, the terran uses this last second scan to try to arrange the battlefield in his favor. At this point, I do my time tested patented "Badloss Kitchen Sink Maneuver", or as that guy in Star Trek puts it, "Fire everything!!"

I A-move straight into the terran ball as soon as the scan goes down. This almost always catches the ghosts by surprise and he'll lose most of them before getting the EMP off. Even if he does pull it off, the EMPs are chaotic and poorly targeted. You'll usually have storms left. He's also microing his ghosts, which means he has a couple of seconds where his army is unstimmed and not being directly controlled. This couple seconds can be the difference between a close battle and a rout in your favor.

If you can't dodge the EMP (and believe me, I am terrible at this), then don't even try! Just stomp the ghosts with your zealots before they can do it.

This is also the best way to handle a drop in your main while a huge army is outside. When the drop starts, Engage his main army instead of falling for the bait. Clean up the main army while he blows up your buildings, and then go clean that up. He'll almost always lose more than you do even if he gets a tech structure or two.
01/31/2013 10:49 AMPosted by wraithcube
That is what I consider typical late game pvt. It's very hard to beat terrans that have a significant ghost and viking count. Especially since storms do very little to ghosts and they can take zealots or stalkers 1v1 especially with emp.


Oh I get how a Diamond Protoss loses to this, but a gold level Protoss when its poor micro versus poor micro I'd give the edge to the protoss army. Terrans at that level are not going to micro away their units from chargealots. Storm is easier to hit with than EMPs. At least that was my experience at the gold level on a Terran account. It takes quite a bit of practice to be effective against Protoss.
Or keep your HT's in a warp prism until after the battle starts
01/30/2013 07:47 PMPosted by Fenix
Do I just forget about templars and use that money towards mass colossi when he goes ghost?


You should go Collosi and only switch HT after he brings out the mass vikings, from which you should not continue massing as much collosi but have that HT for storms. Also, I find hallucination with your mass collosi really useful in death ball fights as vikings could target the hallucinations(assuming they're up front) and he could waste his time focus firing them as well.
How do you lose at that point? With enough HT you can storm the Vikings keeping your colossus much safer and possibly hitting ghosts. Also don't you have at least one observer hanging out with your army just in case the ghosts cloak?


Terran scans your army. Ghosts snipe observer. Ghosts cloak, walk forward and emp all the templar and zealots and then run away.

Vikings fly in and start taking potshots at colossus. Bio army stims forward and starts attacking. Once the battle starts bio starts kiting away from any remaining templar and colossus. The shieldless zealots slowly melt as they chase down the bio army which is out of range of any AOE. Meanwhile cloaked ghosts off to the side start sniping templar or shooting colossus. Then the bio army stims forward to chase down any slow retreating templar or colossus or transforming archons.

During this whole battle there's zealots warping in at a proxy pylon attacking terrans latest base while new terran reinforcements try to defend it. A medivac also flew around and is dropping a protoss base while the protoss warps in units to defend. Both players try to rally any new units not harassing or defending harassment to their main army.

That is what I consider typical late game pvt. It's very hard to beat terrans that have a significant ghost and viking count. Especially since storms do very little to ghosts and they can take zealots or stalkers 1v1 especially with emp.

This is why so much of the battle comes down to HT vs Ghost micro and storm/emp dodging.


So F**ING irritating.

When terrans get like 10+ Ghosts, I am not even sure if its possible to win against that bio ball. They keep their ghosts in front clocked and they either scan or just EMP everything they see moving, and since EMPing revelas units they reveal your observer and snipe it outright. BAM and now you don't have detection.

RIght now I keep like 2 observers with my army + 2 observers way behind to transfer them if first two are sniped. So frustrating. And the thing is, if they are sniped - you are done. Ghosts are then free to take half of your health instantly and since you have no storm, they kill you without losing a single unit. And if you do have storm, they just walk away from you and try again.

Amount of micro that is needed to take out a competent terran is just mindboggling. Ghosts are like the ideal anti-protoss units with no weaknesses whatsoever.
02/03/2013 08:03 PMPosted by Lite
Do I just forget about templars and use that money towards mass colossi when he goes ghost?


You should go Collosi and only switch HT after he brings out the mass vikings, from which you should not continue massing as much collosi but have that HT for storms. Also, I find hallucination with your mass collosi really useful in death ball fights as vikings could target the hallucinations(assuming they're up front) and he could waste his time focus firing them as well.


You can pretty much assume he'll go vikings after the first engagement. I mean, it would increadibly stupid not to. So as soon as he saw your colosi, you can start switching. Otherwise it would be too late. And protoss are very weak during that transition. Sometimes I start swithing before the first engagement. HTs take a while to tech to, start early.
The easiest way to engage pvt up until mid-masters is to keep your ht on a seperate control group. Do a little bit of pre-splitting and a-move. when you fight engage the terran will always have the ghosts in front. If you have more than one observer than it doesn't matter too much if he scans. When you are about to engage pull your ht back so that when he emps your whole entire army it doesn't hit the ht. if you have 3 collo the ghosts should be pretty much all vaporised by the time he gets off all of his emps. Then walk your templar back and storm everything.
Have you tried charge lots? or storm? i hear storm is good against clumped up terran units. also Killossus does good damage. Oh and there is this thign called micro, you might want to look it up on google.
yes it is... but they'll never fix it. We have storm which is DoT, they have EMP which is instant damage plus an AoE feedback. Even splitting HTs it does considerable damage to the meat shield units and they will still hit some unless they have few ghosts.

It SHOULD require research and be T3 in some aspect. EMP in scbw was a t3.5 spell practically. It's stupid that a better version of it is now on the ghost.

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