Masters Mech TvZ guide.How to get a 95% WR

Terran Discussion
Hello, im a master terran mech player, i had a good Q&A thread but i felt a guide would be a good way to help players against Zerg, as i know alot of people have trouble with that matchup. As i mentioned before my winrate is roughly 90-95% in tvz.

So lets begin, what is the best opener

Hellion banshee is my preferred way to open into mech

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ForGG_Hellion/Banshee_Opener_(vs._Zerg)

Alternatively you can open 2 or 3 factory Blue flame.

·10 – Supply Depot
·12 - Barracks
·16 – Marine (only 1)
·17 – Orbital Command
·17 – @ 400 minerals, start 2nd Command Center
·19 – 2 Refineries
·17 – Supply Depot (Resume SCV and Marine production)
·@100 Gas, start Factory and Bunker
·@50 Gas and 100% 3rd/4th Marine, start Reactor on Barracks
·@100 Gas, Start 2nd Factory
·100% Factory, Swap off and Start Techlab on rax
·100% 2nd Factory , Swap off and Start BF
·Third factory @100 gas if desired or starport for vikings to clear out ovies
·Move out with your hellions (12-15) right before blue flame finishes and roast some drones!


With your first 4 hellions you want to basically attack into his natural, i have won alot of games with just my first 4 hellions, as alot of zergs dont expect it, and arnt prepared. My first cloaked banshee is rallied to his third, and you ill kill it if.

  • he doesnt have creep connected
  • he went 3 hatch and his third isnt done, meaning he cant build spores at the third and cant detect your banshee
  • often when your 2nd banshee gets there and he isnt prepared for 2 banshees, regardless, your going to put a TON of pressure on the zergs third if he tries to go 3 hatch before lair.
  • Dont overcommit your opener, meaning dont send ALL your hellions to kill drones and lose all your banshees, banshees are VERY useful when you make your mech push, as well as for scouting and keeping you safe to take your third.

    Im not going to tell you exactly when to take your third, etc, because that really depends on how the game is going, and there are many timings a zerg will try that i will address later, but you MUST have 3 bases to mech, so take that third as soon as possible!

    As your harassing with hellion banshee put down the 3rd cc, if the zerg is going for 2 base lair i sometimes get my 2nd and third factory, as well as 1 armory and an engineering bay before my third CC, you want to get thors out a bit earlier in case he gets mutas, and this also opens you up to being able to get tanks if he goes for some kind of 2 base roach max.

    Your 3rd and 4th gasses you should get around 8:00. I usually take my third when my first 2 thors pop. Before doing so though you want to put 2-3 turrets up around your mineral lines and production buildings. Thors are SLOW. If you get caught by surprise mutas your going to take alot of damage because your thors cant move between your third and main very fast. Start siege mode upgrade asap. Mutas are often followed up by a roach push, so generally after my first two thors i start 2 tanks, you should always be pumping hellions and a few banshees.

    The midgame

    Once you take your third go up to 5 factories, your armories should and must be getting those mech upgrades. Upgrades make a mech army 1000x stronger, so ideally you want to be at 2-2 for that prehive push.

    If i find im floating minerals i lay down more cc's. But the priority is that mech push, so its ok to stay on 3 base. Your idea composition for that push is as follows.

  • 3-4 thors.
  • as many hellions as the reactored factory can produce
  • a TON of tanks
  • 1 raven
  • banshees are great as well
  • You MUST have that raven, i have died more than once because i didnt have a raven and my opponent sent burrowed roaches and/or infestors under me.

    Your goal of course is to kill the zerg before hive tech, so you want to constantly be scanning his base to see that hive transition. When you push out you probably wont have vikings, so MAKE SURE you push out before hive tech, as i push out i always lay down an additional 2 starports and start rallying vikings to my army. Its ok to catch the tail end of hive tech, meaning he has just enough time to make a few broodlords, unless hes skipping out on army, hes not going to have the resources to get a ton of BL's when you hit.

    You dont want to take ALL your units, leave a few tanks in well positioned areas, and its very very ideal to have a complete walloff of of all 3 of your bases, as it will delay any kind of counter attack. He may go for a base trade, and with mech that isnt good, so you want to make him regret any such decision by having good defense. Your factories will still be pumping units, so you should be able to defend anything less then a complete base trade.
    The engagement

    Your mech army is your lifeline, babysit it like crazy. I will make this clear, if you are caught unsieged and/or clumped up you are DEAD

    You want to be scanning for his army constantly, as soon as you hit creep and not a second later you want to start siegeing up chunks of your mech army and spreading out a bit. A mech army is 1000 times more effective spread out If he engages 1 tank, he takes fire from 6, you get the idea. Spread it out. Start unsieging the rear chunks of your army and moving them up, if he hasnt already he is going to engage you as soon as you start hitting his hatchery. If you are spread out and sieged up, he will lose, period.

    Usually as i push i take my 4th, just in case he survives the push.

    =========================================================

    I will now get into some of the common ways a zerg will try to kill you.

    There are several zerg builds that i will address.

    Roach ling bane all in

    By far the scariest. But with good scouting you want to pull most of your scvs from your natural into your main. You want to prioritize killing the banelings with your banshee. Dont fight the roaches with your hellions straight up. You need them to deal with the lings. I will tell you now there is very little way to hold your natural. Your priority is to survive. If i scout this kind of all in, i generally build a bunker in my main, as well as possibly a 2nd in my natural. I put a tech lab on the barracks and start making some marauders.

    Ling bane all in.

    Kill the banes with your banshee if possible, micro the hellions and kill the lings

    7 roach rush

    Against zerg all ins your lifeline is generally the banshee. You should have a complete walloff at your natural by the time this hits. You want to bring some of your scvs to repair the bunker, you can either counter attack with your hellions or use them to soften up the roaches a bit, but you dont want to trade hellions for roaches, as the hellions will lose. Your banshee should pop JUST as this hits. Do NOT delay your banshee if you scout an early gas

    Zerg gas

    Scouting a zerg gas timing is very important, as it allows you to know what type of play to expect.

  • If you scout a gas before 3:30. I would say there is a 90% chance you will face early aggression.
  • A gas at 4:00 is standard, but that doesnt mean there wont be any aggression, standard hellion banshee should keep you safe at this point however.
  • Alot of zergs will grab a gas arond 3:30, and then just use it for speed. Try and keep your scv alive long enough to see how much gas he gets, if its just for speed he will stop at 100 gas mined.
  • Ways a zerg will try and kill a mech army.

    Muta into roach.

    As i mentioned, alot of times zergs will get 10 or so mutas to try and force a ton of thors, and then transition into mass roaches. Something you must realize. Until 2-2 Roaches BEAT thors. Do not go thor heavy mech. Get your first two thors, and possibly a third if the muta count is high, then check his base. Is he going muta ling bling? or transitioning into roaches? you can grab a couple extra thors if he goes muta ling bling, but if it is indeed roaches get those seige tanks Asap.

    Drops

    As soon as you take your third base you want to start a BIG turret ring around your main, alot of zergs will try to drop a ton of roaches in your main, severely hindering your production. If you can check his ovies and see if they have speed, that is basically the big tell. But regardless you want that turret ring in your main.

    He may also drop roaches on your army as soon as you push out, as soon as you scout this you want to retreat ASAP. Since your pushing out im assuming you started your extra starports. Wait until you have a decent viking count, grab some extra thors, and push out again, he will regret trying to drop you at that point.

    Nydus Worm

    Sometimes zergs will also try to nydus worm your main, like i said you MUST have that turret ring, so this should not be an issue. If he does drop roaches or nydus in your main. Lift all your production buildings, dont try to base trade or anything like that. Mech is not an army you want to basetrade with.

    Replays

    http://drop.sc/299390
    http://drop.sc/299107
    http://drop.sc/298996
    http://drop.sc/298824

    I will add more replays as well as analyze the ones that i have posted and point out key things.

    Also, if you have replays of games where you mech and want advice. Feel free to share! and i will be happy to analyze them.
    http://drop.sc/302801

    this one felt great haha.

    I had a bit of difficulty as you can see with his drops, but wave after wave was just too much for him.

    To be honest im not sure exactly how to beat drops, the vikings just dont seem to kill them fast enough. I think the key is just to spread out as much as possible.

    http://drop.sc/302216

    Did some great harass with my hellion banshee. Eventually sniped his third. Notice things like how i hit his third with the banshee to draw the queens away, then run 4 hellions into his main.

    I played this one pretty much how i always play, trading banshees for infestors is a pretty good trade. You waste energy, and kill infestors. So if your able and hes relying on just infestors for AA, i often will grab 2-3 banshees and Magic box his infestors.

    I went rather hellion heavy on this one, as i saw he was going for alot of lings. Remember to use your excess minerals to build extra cc's.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thought i would switch it up and do a little 2 factory blue flame hellion.

    http://drop.sc/302224

    http://drop.sc/302251

    NEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Had alot of fun with this one, as mass infestor was something i use to fear. Haha enjoy!
    http://drop.sc/302914
    Could you perhaps upload a replay of your own that best follows the build order? Basically what the ideal situation calls for (it might be one that is relatively passive just for time references and a base supply/time to play against). - Should be relatively easy this one.

    OR one that provides a great response at a key point in your BO that your scouting let you in on? - This might be populated by defense against various early pushes with roaches and banes but could also be for your opponent blind countering you with mutas that come REALLY fast, or something along the lines of that.

    You could also just highlight some replays and recall there most valuable feature (one of the above or something else like "This is why you get ravens" and "Roach drops" or something like that).
    Could you perhaps upload a replay of your own that best follows the build order? Basically what the ideal situation calls for (it might be one that is relatively passive just for time references and a base supply/time to play against). - Should be relatively easy this one.

    OR one that provides a great response at a key point in your BO that your scouting let you in on? - This might be populated by defense against various early pushes with roaches and banes but could also be for your opponent blind countering you with mutas that come REALLY fast, or something along the lines of that.

    You could also just highlight some replays and recall there most valuable feature (one of the above or something else like "This is why you get ravens" and "Roach drops" or something like that).


    http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ForGG_Hellion/Banshee_Opener_(vs._Zerg)

    Literally the perfect guide to this
    forgg does this every game vs zerg, he has played thousands of games at his twitch station of this build
    Literally the perfect guide to this
    forgg does this every game vs zerg, he has played thousands of games at his twitch station of this build


    I kinda meant just categorizing the replays he has examples for, to highlight the significance of each one kind of :S
    Thanks for putting time into writing this up. Was a good read and I'll definitely have to try this thing out at some point.

    Hopefully will help with TvZ struggles :D

    +1
    Literally the perfect guide to this
    forgg does this every game vs zerg, he has played thousands of games at his twitch station of this build


    I kinda meant just categorizing the replays he has examples for, to highlight the significance of each one kind of :S


    principles of hellion banshee

    1. i need a 3rd CC at some point - might as well build it early
    2. i can keep making hellions and banshees as long as there are no mutas out and zerg hasn't taken a third base
    3. ill need to get thors / keep hellions alive or marines and tanks to deal with muta / ling / bane eventually

    just grind games, keep these things in mind. eventually you'll get a feel for when everything should happen. there are so many different levels of commitment to aggression and orders/decisions with units in this game to have a textbook response to it all. stick to the basic ideas and try to learn it firsthand imo. this is a great build to begin learning terran with. it's not as economically booming as some of the stuff you can do once your control lets you get away with big greed, but it's got a really nice economy/order of units and its safe vs everything if you do it the way forgg does it
    I haven't played around much with mech TvZ; I have too much fun with bio to want to shake things up.

    How do you deal with the inevitable brood lord rush when he realizes you're meching? That's my one great fear when meching; he gets too many brood lords.
    I haven't played around much with mech TvZ; I have too much fun with bio to want to shake things up.

    How do you deal with the inevitable brood lord rush when he realizes you're meching? That's my one great fear when meching; he gets too many brood lords.


    you can take a 4th, get thors and vikings + set up for ravens and just turtle or goo for an all in timing before broodlords

    if your hellion harass is unsuccessful, normally he'll have broods before you can push (15ish min) so you can take the 4th base. normally it doesn't work out, but if you're behind it's better to harass with hellions/make vikings/thors instead of pushing and losing 100% for sure
    I haven't played around much with mech TvZ; I have too much fun with bio to want to shake things up.

    How do you deal with the inevitable brood lord rush when he realizes you're meching? That's my one great fear when meching; he gets too many brood lords.


    What Senza says. So basically he can rush for broodlords, but that means his economy is going to be weaker, he will have a smaller army, and less bases. Broodlords in small numbers arnt a problem. If he his saving up all his resources and trying to get broodlords, you can.

    1. Push a bit earlier and take advantage of the fact that his army is smaller, he will either have to lose bases to wait for his broodlords, or invest the resources he planned to use for the broods into roaches.

    2. If he is rushing for broodlords he cant really be so aggressive until then, which leaves you free to take a 4th.

    In my experience i usually hit him at an earlier time, and find that he has a fairly small army.
    im assuming you get blue flame eventually, how early do you get it or is it something you just squeeze in when affordable. also do you go double armory or throw one down build some thors then another when its affordable
    01/31/2013 08:14 PMPosted by raiderryan
    im assuming you get blue flame eventually, how early do you get it or is it something you just squeeze in when affordable. also do you go double armory or throw one down build some thors then another when its affordable


    Depends what im facing. If your facing a ling player you want to get blue flame right after siege tech, or at the same time if resources permit

    If your facing a roach player there is no need to rush blue flame, just make sure you get it before you move out.

    Also The armories really depend what your facing. If he is going really agressive (like mutas or fast roaches) you want to put down 1 armory and get your first two thors asap. If he is being passive then feel free to put down both armories at the same time.

    Typically i like to go 1 armory and then the other once i have the money, simply because i like to feel extra safe. Keep in mind upgrades are very important so you dont want to wait any longer than you have to.
    What do you do if zerg make roach/hydra and attack at around ~11 min after you opened hellion/banshee?
    02/01/2013 10:32 AMPosted by marcmad
    What do you do if zerg make roach/hydra and attack at around ~11 min after you opened hellion/banshee?


    ah yes. That build. Is this off 3 base or 2?

    Regardless, delay taking your third base, and get out siege tanks asap. The key to beating roach hydra is just a TON of siege tanks

    again guys if you post a replay it helps me alot more to critique your play
    I'm curious on your thoughts of a 1/1/1 into bio build? So it's pretty much a helion banshee opener into bio play?

    Also I know this is a TvZ thread but since you're a masters I'm sure you've gone against your fair share of protosses. What helps you win? Right now this match up for me, is a toss up at best. *pun intended*
    I'm curious on your thoughts of a 1/1/1 into bio build? So it's pretty much a helion banshee opener into bio play?

    Also I know this is a TvZ thread but since you're a masters I'm sure you've gone against your fair share of protosses. What helps you win? Right now this match up for me, is a toss up at best. *pun intended*


    111 into bio is a high execution build, but it's also probably the most viable if you read zerg perfectly

    against protoss, i would say the biggest thing that has helped me lately is keeping a marine about 2 or 3 range in front of my bunker to scout for gateweay all ins around 6_30 until 9_30ish, after that i'm good to go. i build two bunkers blindly, because a large portion of protoss are horrible and cant win without a cheesy gateway/kill 3/4s of your army push a minute or two before your medivac timing, so building 2 bunkers just makes it so he can't all in you as easily. i think you will win more games from building blind defenses against protoss fa99otry than saving the money so you can have your 3rd CC 15 seconds earlier or w/e it is.
    I'm curious on your thoughts of a 1/1/1 into bio build? So it's pretty much a helion banshee opener into bio play?

    Also I know this is a TvZ thread but since you're a masters I'm sure you've gone against your fair share of protosses. What helps you win? Right now this match up for me, is a toss up at best. *pun intended*


    Like Senza says. The biggest difficulty of hellion banshee is controlling those units while you macro behind it. It is very execution and multitasking oriented. That being said hellion banshee is the best opener regardless of what you do after that.

    Against toss i either mech or go hammers 1-1-1. So not not experience there in bio :)
    You're an asset to the Terran community

    Love the guide! I like to change it up in my tvz often so I play bio - Marine tank - mech - and sometimes skyterran. Great write up Definetly making my mech play stronger just by reading it :D

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