MapDesign] Colossus > defenders advantage TvP

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Hi, I posted this in the defense mechanic thread but I felt like I should post it here as well to hear some opinions. Was my inability to engage the colossus a map fault or my fault? I was on the back foot and felt like I was at a complete defenders disadvantage It was extremely frustrating as I felt like I should have had some chance to fight, but rather I was obliterated.

http://drop.sc/301539 ~ There is replay, I do some weird rage at the end but whatever ignore it, I personally despise the colossus.

additional note: In the images it looks like I have a puny army. There are a lot of units hugging the back wall that you cannot see. Supplies are similar. Protoss favor.

So basically I did the standard medivac timing and lost a few units, killed 3 pylons and a few stalkers. I wasn't too stressed, he pushed back at me and I had to set up a defensive stance as he had 3 colossus and I had 4 vikings with 2 more on the way. To be frank I didn't stand a chance because he could move his colossus over his stalker army and deny any positioning for my vikings to take down his colossus. This is why sc2 will never change, because of specific units and their requirements for a "Hard counter". There was no defenders advantage for me here, rather he had the better advantage being on the offense.

This is me in a position ready to defend ~ I try to kill his colossus but he simple moves them to the right hand side of his army.

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/imba1i.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img18/5157/imba1i.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Now you can see that my viking have to reach over his army to attack the colossus, extremely vulnerable to the stalkers. Now you know why vikings have such big range people.

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/401/imba2.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img401/6747/imba2.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Now despite losing all my forces, I want to see if its even possible to engage with my

vikings at all. They are to the right now.

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/imba3.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img138/7950/imba3.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Oh the colossus, what a most genius unit.

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/imba4.jpg/][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img717/8101/imba4.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I was pretty angry when this happened. I know I made a few mistakes but the fact that I couldn't even engage the colossus really baffled me, I couldn't even put up a fight and I wouldn't have mind losing even if I killed SOME of his units. Perhaps it was because I did not engage at the ramp? I still feel like he can maneuver his colossus the same way. I know it's only 4 vikings vs 3 colossus, but they were rendered completely useless, and this makes me feel sad.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396650

I would greatly appreciate a reply from a blue post, I feel like this is a situation which is most unfair and is far from enjoyable. Did I have no right to defend myself because of my early blunder?
he had an army that hard countered your composition. no amount of defenders advantage should so completely eliminate a hard counter, otherwise nobody could ever win. you absolutely should have had more than 4 vikings.
bad image post, Please check teamliquid link at the bottom
02/02/2013 09:05 AMPosted by Kelthar
he had an army that hard countered your composition. no amount of defenders advantage should so completely eliminate a hard counter, otherwise nobody could ever win. you absolutely should have had more than 4 vikings.


noob I was producing da vikings mate, I couldnt get enough out in time as u has the chrono. The point is my 4 vikings were rendered USELESS
first off, you should NEVER engage at your base if you can help it. Terran bio relies on mobility to stay alive in an engagement, and you basically backed yourself into a corner.

second, theres a specific ratio of vikings to colossi (which i dont know off the top of my head but higher league players could tell you) you need to have to be able to kill them before the colossi kill your bio.
02/02/2013 09:11 AMPosted by overlord
he had an army that hard countered your composition. no amount of defenders advantage should so completely eliminate a hard counter, otherwise nobody could ever win. you absolutely should have had more than 4 vikings.


noob I was producing da vikings mate, I couldnt get enough out in time as u has the chrono. The point is my 4 vikings were rendered USELESS


use reactors. vikings build faster than chronoed colossi WITHOUT reactors, and they can build 2 at a time from a starport. theres no excuse for that.
02/02/2013 09:11 AMPosted by overlord
noob I was producing da vikings mate, I couldnt get enough out in time as u has the chrono. The point is my 4 vikings were rendered USELESS


Scout and build Vikings earlier, or stop whining and take the loss.
1. Imageshack sucks
2. You have already been banned on TL.
3. 3 Colossus vs 4 Vikings. He had the time to make 3 Colossus and you did not have the time to make more Vikings?
2 Medivacs and 4 Vikings.. you've got to be kidding me
02/02/2013 09:29 AMPosted by FrostyBacon
2 Medivacs and 4 Vikings.. you've got to be kidding me


He's Diamond too. I'm not sure if this is a troll post or not.
this is what i do if my opponent goes 3+ colosi, make a 2nd starport instead of building extra rax(depends on eco) and also scout plz or scan to see his unit comp.

The micro part:

hotkey bio units and viking separately

push w/ viking first (if stalkers blink or move forward to snipe vikings stim forward w/ marines) u can easily take out tons of stalker if opponent doesnt micro properly.

...oh he has heavy zealots:

gotta kite =/ but heavy zealot = less stalkers(if that happens i just suicide my vikings to take out as many colosi as possible.

usually ill take out most of the colosi maybe 1 left but i can just focus target w/ small portion of my army, pretty much u take out colosi = u steam roll protoss gateway army.

Timing

usually at 10-12 min mark if toss goes colosi he should have around 1-2 colsi(at this stage you should have 2 vikings out and another 2 in queue

most protoss will stop making colosi and switch tech

then u go ghost

word of advice go watch Bomber build works wonder.
lol you make vikings vs collosus all in? youre going it wrong
Early Collosi are kind of like lurkers in bw, you don't want to fight them at your choke, you want to fight outside HIS choke. That way you can spread all your bio in front of the ramp and, because it constricts movement you should be able to place your Vikings so that a stalker won't be able to hit it without coming fully down the ramp where you can pick them off with your bio. By the time he pushes you back you should have more Vikings.

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