Call to Action: May 2 Balance Testing

General Discussion
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[Oracle}
Ok the changes seems to make sense except the Oracle one...
Like you(blizzard) points out, the proxy oracle exists pretty frequently already and it is VERY strong even if you scout it... sometimes it can even be to late dependning on your opener as Terran which is a huge problem, see for example Grubby in Dreamhack games.
What you now do with this change is making tactics like this stronger than they already are which is very unnecessary if you ask me, why buff something that already works?

You have to look at it at another perspective because if you buff the speed the protoss doesnt really need to proxy that close to the terran base . This now gives them oppurtunity to proxy at 100 more places = Very hard to scout out,
And if you can´t really scout the proxy you will as terran (upon seeing the double gas) assume that its either Dark templar rush or all in Blink stalker or all in colussus?
Protoss already got so much diversity in their double gas and it is already to hard to scout what the protoss is up to.

And I really dont agree that the Oracle isnt game ending because it kills workers SOO fast and if you dont pull workers instantly it can easy kill 10 workers in a couple of seconds... and escpecially because it is so hard to scout.
If you buff the oracle even more you have to atleast make it so it has to be microed.. like the banshee for example.
As IdrA said on twitter, instead of tweaking spore crawlers again, change corruptors. They're the most boring unit in the game.
Can't forget that Flash didn't have yamato cannon in that engagement with the tempests
you can repeat the same thing for toss and it's all true, except that toss have ONE unit capable of beating a muta strategy. basically zerg and toss have the tools to handle ALL air strategies except for muta (which toss can beat, but has to counter in a very extreme way).
really seems to me that the problem isn't that anti-air is too weak, it's that mutas are too strong.


I thought Toss had Phoenix, Stalker, High Templar, and Archons? Nexus Cannon helps a tinsy bit too, but isn't exactly a unit.

As for Zerg, even with this buff to Sporecrawlers, Mutalisks will do what they have been doing, which is deny expansions and map control. However.. If people start getting burrow with banelings/roaches early on, mutas could be delayed, or even seen less.

Edit: Forgot to mention that, on the upside, at least early mutas won't come in to snipe workers/that spire being built if you were late to it/queens. Definitely a step in the right direction.
[Oracle}
Ok the changes seems to make sense except the Oracle one...
Like you(blizzard) points out, the proxy oracle exists pretty frequently already and it is VERY strong even if you scout it... sometimes it can even be to late dependning on your opener as Terran which is a huge problem, see for example Grubby in Dreamhack games.
What you now do with this change is making tactics like this stronger than they already are which is very unnecessary if you ask me, why buff something that already works?

You have to look at it at another perspective because if you buff the speed the protoss doesnt really need to proxy that close to the terran base . This now gives them oppurtunity to proxy at 100 more places = Very hard to scout out,
And if you can´t really scout the proxy you will as terran (upon seeing the double gas) assume that its either Dark templar rush or all in Blink stalker or all in colussus?
Protoss already got so much diversity in their double gas and it is already to hard to scout what the protoss is up to.

And I really dont agree that the Oracle isnt game ending because it kills workers SOO fast and if you dont pull workers instantly it can easy kill 10 workers in a couple of seconds... and escpecially because it is so hard to scout.
If you buff the oracle even more you have to atleast make it so it has to be microed.. like the banshee for example.


The effect of not pulling workers instantly when an oracle comes in is the exact same as not instantly responding to a widow mine drop.

Oracles need a buff and need a use besides proxy cheesing. And it takes alot more micro to keep Oracles alive than banshees.
These threads are always filled with armchair balance experts and emo kids.
Really questioning the effectiveness of the spore crawler change, blizz has impressed me with the effectiveness of their minor changes before (immortal range vs 1-1-1) but this one really seems like it wont do much to effect any matchup, spores even in small numbers already deter mutas pretty effectively, and yet the muta cloud remains the only reasonable way to play
Very strongly disagree with the Oracle buff.
As IdrA said on twitter, instead of tweaking spore crawlers again, change corruptors. They're the most boring unit in the game.


Indeed, give them the +15 or so vs Biologicial.
S C O U R G E S
First of all good that you reduce the cost of burrow , and nice buff to spore crawler.

But I would like to see buff to roach or speedlings or any other unit that can dig / use burrow to have it at tier 1 , hatchery instead of lair , l and increase speed at hatchery too or something.

Just do something so we can use burrow more effective at agressive way , some how ,
S C O U R G E S


I echo this sentiment
And it takes alot more micro to keep Oracles alive than banshees.

100HP 60 shield 3.375 (now 4) speed vs 140HP 2.75 speed. Guess which one is the oracle, which one is banshee?
The very top levels will benefit from the Oracle change, I believe. But if the Oracles are already strong in the early game, but become useless later in the game, why isn't it a Fleet Beacon upgrade?
spores will 3 shot mutas now at 45 damage a shot.
WoW. Oracles might be good now outside of an allin. Nice. That Spore buff though is just kinda stupid. Just nerf the Muta slightly. Which would make so much more sense vs all match ups. Cause its kinda like just stupid of a unit now.
100HP 60 shield 3.375 (now 4) speed vs 140HP 2.75 speed. Guess which one is the oracle, which one is banshee? [/quote]

Except banshee has cloak and can endlessly attack while oracles only deal significant damage to light units and are useless once you run out of energy, banshees also are good transitioners into mid/late game while banshees are countered by 1 turret and (especially if you proxy them) actually put you behind in the game if you don't deal enough damage with them.
lol oracles needed that XD they were only good if unscouted rush to them. and hmm spores that could be gross. lol i like it. and oracles moving as fast as muta only makes sense gives u a chance to micro them away. they will still die 9/10 times lol
I’m not sure that I completely agree with the oracle change. While at the highest levels it may be true that the oracle don’t affect players nearly as much, but at the lower levels that’s not true. I think for some the oracle is already deadly and this little change will make it even more so.

I’m already blindly making static defense, but even then the oracle manages to pick stuff off here and there as I can’t afford that much static defense so early in the game. I don’t know, I just don’t see it being a good thing for us poor bastards in the lower leagues. Could heavily sway balance in the lower leagues.

For ZvZ, I can see the spore crawler change. Makes sense.

The burrow, I think could be powerful, because you can heal. I can already see it being a bunker buster for Terran. Put 3 up there, pop up and down to make him waste his scan and then bring the rest of the roaches in. At that point, continue to pop up and down quickly taking out structures. The roach rush will be on a whole new level. Though, I’d actually like to see this in play. It might be pretty interesting and bring a whole new dynamic to the game. I don’t think people quite realize how powerful healing can be. I do it with Zerg all the time. There is no good reason to walk away from a fight and not heal your units.

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