Protoss buff balance test map

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05/28/2013 10:36 AMPosted by Magnijung
so that we can be prepared with a patch if needed down the line.


I think a lot of people missed this part. Also I think people forgot about last time protoss buffs were introduced and down the line rejected due to shift in meta game.

So folks, save your qq and go test the patch.


But no one tested it. 99% of the people who complained about it never stepped foot into the balance maps just like how most people here won't step into it.

David Kim acknowledges that medivacs are strong harass units, and I think proper medivac usage is what has made Innovation perform so well. He doesn't lose them often, and even if zerg builds mutas, in an army vs. army fight, if he'd lose too many units, he could always just speed boost back towards his rallied marines and it was enough to keep mutas from killing them. 200 energy on a medivac is 600 Hp worth of healing, and when u start balling 10+ of those in an army, it becomes more difficult to trade efficiently with.

About protoss underperforming, I'm curious what metric they are using. Toss aggression is already pretty strong. In ZvP in a SH attrition war, whoever is smarter with flanking or placement of their energy units can determine who wins those games, and in PvT, well, honestly I don't know much about that.

Wanting players to perform more multi-prong attacks is a good thing IMO, but I think the risk/reward ratio needs adjustment.
About protoss underperforming, I'm curious what metric they are using. Toss aggression is already pretty strong. In ZvP in a SH attrition war, whoever is smarter with flanking or placement of their energy units can determine who wins those games, and in PvT, well, honestly I don't know much about that.

Check RO8 in WCS KR and WCS EU. That's what they meant.
Dayvie, that's insane. Most terrans can't win any single game versus tosses. Don't do it, this will harm balance too much.
o: sounds really interesting and will be fun to see what toss can do with it cuz I feel like it really helps to have one warpprism out to harrass everywhere but I don't see it as much as I'd like to. And ofc it will be cool (and annoying) to see what early timings/ rushes they can come up with :D AWESOME!
Terrible TvP change.
You know what, I'll take it.

<3 you brotosses xD
I think changing the Oracle will be a better step. It gets shut down easy with one static defense. Maybe increase range by one so it can pick off corner workers.
because most Terran do not use the tools given to them! When I use mmm/hb/ghost, I take my time, I choose my engagements, and the games usually go in my favor.

For instance, last night I was playing as Toss. The guy 18mins into the game didn't have any ghosts. I was using Storm/Colossus.

The problem isn't the unit compositions, it's the unit-controlling-device (you).
Hi~ why don't you do two more tests:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8920161959
You know what, I'll take it.

<3 you brotosses xD


I don't think they will do it though.

I personally think that this strengthen's all ins and on top of that could have a negative impact on PvZ.

It could happen but this change could easily create more problems than it solves.
I'm not really sure this solves specific problems protoss has been having, but it opens up some potentially interesting play. I find a lot of the problems in the game currently are map related (Neo Planet S for example).
I think changing the Oracle will be a better step. It gets shut down easy with one static defense. Maybe increase range by one so it can pick off corner workers.


A single turret can't cover the entire mineral line to begin with; I think you are better off wishing for more shields + more range with a slight dps to light nerf.
Im sick and tired of Blizzard balanced after pro level only. They need to look at lower level players, where protoss are doing very well. This is a step in the wrong direction, protoss all-in gonna be sooooo much stronger than it is now, and now it is allready too strong.

I've said it before, I think that protoss is a broken race. Broken because all-ins are so strong, and they have so many all-ins. In TvP theres only really the option of sittig back, and making a stim timing, because of the fear of cheeses that are so strong. With this, protoss are gonna be even more broken.

I know this is only on a test map, but Blizzard please, you need to not balance your game only on how pro level players are doing, otherwise the game will be too annoying at lower level play, even diamond as I am in.
You know what, I'll take it.

<3 you brotosses xD


Fingerkitten approved :D
I really hope this change goes through. If it does it might allow templars in prisms to chase down medivacs and feedback them to prevent retreats.
I want to make a point about the problem with warp prisms.

Since protoss can't defend bases, particularly out-lying expansions, with few units, they can't usually commit the amount of resources required to use warp prisms effectively.

The problem pretty much boils down to the colossus, and the recently buffed mutalisks.

Since the colossus is bad in low numbers, and is bad without support, they will never hold a base. If the protoss doesn't want to lose to a counter attack, they need to leave a handful of units back to help defend the colossi, but that largely weakens any warp prism strategy.

Because of the buffed mutalisks with its strong regeneration, there is no protoss unit that can defend expansions in low number from the mutalisks.

The changes that would probably make protoss aggressive surgical warp prism strikes + low unit defense work are these:
- add in the reaver
- add in the corsair
- possibly nerf mutalisks regen (not sure if this would be necessary)

All of a sudden, defensive plays can be made by a very minimal amount of units by protoss, and more resources can be dedicated to offense.

Of course 30 mutas will still crush through a couple corsairs, but it would be a lot better than how phoenixes fair against them (needing at least 6 or so to even do anything to the mutalisks).

Ultimately, it boils down to my theory - since protoss and zerg lost all forms of positional units, they can't split their army without severely weakening their defense or offense.

Note: To help zergs ability to do something similar, lurkers, and possibly scourge, would have to be added (or other units to fill those roles better).
HotS statistics:

PL in round 4:
PvT 14–13 (52%) PvZ 20–14 (59%)

PL round 5:
PvT 14–18 (44%) PvZ 18–13 (58%)

WCS KR season 1:
PvT 76–73 (51%) PvZ 93–111 (46%)

WCS EU season 1:
PvT 140–154 (48%) PvZ 233–210 (53%)

All numbers from aligulac.

It is just that the best terran players just plays better then the protoss players. I have seen terran players play almost flawless in long games but almost never see protoss players do it.
And let me guess, next patch will be with terran buffs and zerg nerfs.

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