TvP Stim = GG! Terran wins

Protoss Discussion
That's right, most Terran in the pro turnys will not go for a 3-rax all-in because it leaves them too vulnerable for a Col counter attack. Which is why Trump didn't have an extra 4 rines and 3 marauders to beat your force.

You're ratio is average, congrats, but decent doesn't warrant the arrogance you're throwing.


Average? I think it's pretty good considering I am playing pro/top players, not random diamond players.

Honestly anyone with a brain can get into diamond, so I am not sure why I am trying to knock any sense in you.
"Oh my fault, didn't realize you were plat, you obviously know what you are talking about."

If maybe your win/loss ratio were 3-1, even 2-1 you could pull a statement like that. But no you're a 1 for 1 player so don't throw arrogance around like that.

Other top tier players disagree with your strategy. Live with it, don't troll on it.

To the original poster:
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeLlzeecUsc&feature=fvsr

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obkO2o2GGVM&feature=channel

He almost has 100 more wins than loses. If he played as many games as you have had. He would have a 2-1 ratio.
This is in reguards to Minigun's post but any input is helpful


Ok I have watched all the replays you posted and in all but the QXC (which he pretty much Stimmed his self to death ) one there are instances where a normal 4 gate expand or 2 gate robo would be the same out come of a win cause ether the player was trying to cheese and got cought or going for a fast expand and just didnt have army to counter your push with. What I am having trouble with is when Terrens cut SCV production to get more units and push with a MMM or a MM with tanks. I'm not a great player and only been playing toss for almost 2 weeks and yes im in Bronze but I'm not a bad player. I'm rank 1 with 1500+ points and have been getting alot of silver league match ups and win alot of them. But always lost to a all in push from a bio ball.
i had trouble with FE builds at first, then realized how important it is to have your first few stalkers mobile and doing work. for example if you have your 3 stalkers at the xel'naga in LT, there's no reason that ANY amount of early marines should make it to your base without getting whittled down with some simple kiting. if you keep these first units in your base you don't have much room to do said kiting.

by the time a dangerous amount of marauders come, you should have a good mix of z/s already or even an immortal. what's most important is being prepared by early stalker map control, 1 minute to prepare knowing exactly what he has is HUGE.

not that it's easy by any means if he does something like 3 rax, but it's definitely possible to pull off. worth the effort because you can play soooo comfortably once that 2nd base is complete... love it when cheesy terrans crumble when they realize their usual plan isn't going to work and i'm making 2x the resources as them :)
just wait until you graduate to plat/diamond where everyone does 2port banshees :)
Only then will you know true suffering
ok i just lost doing the 1 gate FE build to a 2 rax seige tank i still dont see how this build can do any good at all against a full all in 3 rax push or any other well macroed all in push
just wait until you graduate to plat/diamond where everyone does 2port banshees :)
Only then will you know true suffering


diamond protoss will have an observer by the time 2 starports are pumping, and know that something weird is going on way before that. so i dont think too many diamond terran attempt 2 port banshees... when it does happen usually just gives me a huge advantage.
ok i just lost doing the 1 gate FE build to a 2 rax seige tank i still dont see how this build can do any good at all against a full all in 3 rax push or any other well macroed all in push


what time in the game did he attack you? by the time a siege tank makes it to your base with any support at all you should be comfortable with robo up/3+ gateways with both expands full of probes.
at 10:30 hey came throught my back on Shakuras Plateau i see him coming but he had 3 seige tanks 10 marauders took out my 9 stalkers 2 sentre and 2 immortal and yeah i had both bases almost fully saturated food count was my 72 to his 51 and he walked all over me like nothing
"Average? I think it's pretty good considering I am playing pro/top players, not random diamond players.

Honestly anyone with a brain can get into diamond, so I am not sure why I am trying to knock any sense in you."

Its an average ratio, don't get upset about it. HuK is about 3-1 to give you some scale, to your 1 for 1. In fact, Trump pulled more of a poke than an assault.



"He almost has 100 more wins than loses. If he played as many games as you have had. He would have a 2-1 ratio."

What kind of proportions are you using?

743 / 645 = 1.15 ratio

Essentially 1 for 1.
no i was at the back waiting for him to come in i seen him killing off my rocks
I've also been having this problem, and the only way ive found to deal with it is to get zealot charge. The problem with this is that it is far less of a hard counter than high temps or colosus, but usually zealot charge is the only advantage i can get in time for the push. Another thing it does well is transition into high temps, which are the only way i know to deal with ghosts.
Just throwing this out there from an average silver player: does heavy FF play require more than one gas? I've been trying to move to getting more sentries in my gateway army early game but end up with little-to-no-gas to afford sentries and stalkers on one base.

[/offtopic]
"Average? I think it's pretty good considering I am playing pro/top players, not random diamond players.

Honestly anyone with a brain can get into diamond, so I am not sure why I am trying to knock any sense in you."

Its an average ratio, don't get upset about it. HuK is about 3-1 to give you some scale, to your 1 for 1. In fact, Trump pulled more of a poke than an assault.



"He almost has 100 more wins than loses. If he played as many games as you have had. He would have a 2-1 ratio."

What kind of proportions are you using?

743 / 645 = 1.15 ratio

Essentially 1 for 1.


he has a 53% win ratio at as a 2269 player, you have a 52% win ratio as 1300 platinum player, do you understand the skill difference between 1300 and 2200? no, so stop talking !##* to someone who you will never be as good as and respect the fact that he knows what he's talking about.

Stop comparing people to top sc2 players like HuK, it makes you look like an idiot. straight up

Now back to the original post..... You need to post some replays so we can narrow down were your problems occur. We can sit here all day posting strats but unless we can see what it is your doing wrong we cant accurately give you advice
@minigun- I actually did a playtest with this and it worked out pretty well. Had my opponent do a 3 rax mm push on LT (on the closest base too) and they did a push after laying down the second and third gateways (after the expo of course). A handful of stalkers and zealots were able to hold them off fine, and after that I'd have 3gate robo with a solid economy, and the terran would have to catch up. Against someone who actually goes all in, of course there's the possibility of losing. However, most competent diamond players won't go for a really early all in rush, and this is actually a fairly strong build. However, I did go for the gateway @12 instead of 14, since it seemed like waiting till 14 would leave me a bit too vulnerable. It also really didn't affect the build order much. Is there any specific reason to do gw at 14 instead of 12?

@revan- huk also plays the game as his job, and someone who can get a 1/1 ratio vs the best players is still exceptional. You also don't seem to realize that if you're rank 10 players in the world and you play ladder, you're most likely going to be matched down instead of up, unless those 9 players above you happen to be all looking for a match atm. More often than not, you're going to be playing people a bracket or so below you, so you're going to have a higher probability of winning. Being near the middle of top 100 would mean you'd be playing against a bigger pool of players who might be better than you, but you'd still be playing among the best players. The guy isn't being arrogant, but you are. I don't see how proposing a strong BO for other players to use is being arrogant, since the merits of the build was listed fairly logically. You just need to actually play it yourself, and know your place. Generally the method to improving is to accept that people are better than you for a reason, and learn from people better than you, not worse.

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