ZvZ made me quit Zerg

Zerg Discussion
if you want you can try the fast hydra build :3 COME TO THE DARK SIDE
I don't blame you.
I hated ZvZ so much, but I've realized it may be the biggest help to improving my game.

ZvP and ZvT leave a lot of room to focus on things other than macro.
ZvZ, especially early game does not.
If you miss one inject, mis-micro your banelings/zerglings, over/undercommit, tech switch too early or late - well then gg.

Really I find ZvZ a reality check to where my macro is and where it isn't.

That being said ZvZ is my worst match up by far... but I appreciate it now at least.
If nothing else it's made fighting anything that's not Zerg that much easier!
I think ZvZ has its own quirky beauty. When I play vs T or P, there's.... sort of a feeling of 'static' stemming from lack of knowledge of how they think, how they build, etc. The feeling is going away with T, but its still there... and it's full-force in ZvP. For me, at least.

In ZvZ, there's none of that. Everything is clear, and I feel free. It's like stepping out onto a frozen lake in the middle of winter.

I can be aggressive early, and I understand much better how well that aggression is going. I can employ walls rather than just running into them, and most of all, it's demanding. Macroing up while microing ling/bane is MUCH harder than macroing while fighting a ZvT or ZvP(again, at least for me). Even when biomine gets into play, I have an easier time hitting injects on time than I do in a ZvZ. Expansion timings are also so much more harder to judge in ZvZ. Can he get lings past me to snipe that expo? does he have banes protecting it? Is his whole army there protecting it? Can I just runby and snipe his queens at the main instead?

I'll take ZvZ any day. It's HARD, but I don't feel helpless like I do vs hellbat drops or mine dragging bio balls.
I think ZvZ has its own quirky beauty. When I play vs T or P, there's.... sort of a feeling of 'static' stemming from lack of knowledge of how they think, how they build, etc. The feeling is going away with T, but its still there... and it's full-force in ZvP. For me, at least.

In ZvZ, there's none of that. Everything is clear, and I feel free. It's like stepping out onto a frozen lake in the middle of winter.

I can be aggressive early, and I understand much better how well that aggression is going. I can employ walls rather than just running into them, and most of all, it's demanding. Macroing up while microing ling/bane is MUCH harder than macroing while fighting a ZvT or ZvP(again, at least for me). Even when biomine gets into play, I have an easier time hitting injects on time than I do in a ZvZ. Expansion timings are also so much more harder to judge in ZvZ. Can he get lings past me to snipe that expo? does he have banes protecting it? Is his whole army there protecting it? Can I just runby and snipe his queens at the main instead?

I'll take ZvZ any day. It's HARD, but I don't feel helpless like I do vs hellbat drops or mine dragging bio balls.

thumbs up

its like a jedi battle
i love the match up, it all depends on your reflexes and how good you are with sling / baneling micro and it doesn't allow players to sit back on two bases at all. i love it.
Yeah I decided not to quit Zerg... 0-12 as Terran decided me that. So I'm back with Zerg.

I'm still off to a rocky start. Feel like I forgot most of what I had learned with Zerg. It's coming back to me.. but the losing streak continues :D I'm definitely regretting trying to race switch.

So yeah my ZvZ is horrible it's by far my worst matchup now.

WHY did you guys tell me never go roach in ZvZ?? WHY!? 6 roaches kills 15++ Zerglings...
lol every matchup is my worst matchup. I'm doing so bad this season. I feel like I should maybe think about quitting the game altogether.
Yeah I decided not to quit Zerg... 0-12 as Terran decided me that. So I'm back with Zerg.

I'm still off to a rocky start. Feel like I forgot most of what I had learned with Zerg. It's coming back to me.. but the losing streak continues :D I'm definitely regretting trying to race switch.

So yeah my ZvZ is horrible it's by far my worst matchup now.

WHY did you guys tell me never go roach in ZvZ?? WHY!? 6 roaches kills 15++ Zerglings...


but it doesn't kill 24 zerglings.
and the zerglings don't have to fight the roach if they don't want to. they can go shred your mineral line if they want to.

if you rely on roaches in early game zvz now, you'll hate the match-up like crazy when you go up a league and you'll have to re-learn it all over again. learn to love speedlings and banelings!

speed roaches are valuable in zvz. slow roaches not really. you can make roaches while you are on the way to getting roach speed. your bases should already be basically saturated at this point.
Yea but look at this play right here.. just replace banes with roaches?
http://drop.sc/342930

look how many lings he pumped out. My roaches shredded them
Sry about the QQ's guys... I'm like that tho. But I went from 0-12 to 50% ratio in an hour just now and I'm feeling a little better. Sorry I ever abandoned the Swarm.
Never again.
Yea but look at this play right here.. just replace banes with roaches?
http://drop.sc/342930

look how many lings he pumped out. My roaches shredded them

i don't think you can get consistent results in zvz with a roach opening. lings are just as powerful and much more versatile.

in your natural, you should put the spinecrawler between the hatchery and the ramp, and use that as your primary point of defense. This lets you cover your ramp to prevent him from running up it, and also lets you defend the hatchery from attack. Keep your queen and units in that zone with the spine, near the ramp, so that all your units will fight at once if he attacks.

that will save you so much trouble against zergling pokes.
Yea but look at this play right here.. just replace banes with roaches?
http://drop.sc/342930

look how many lings he pumped out. My roaches shredded them

i don't think you can get consistent results in zvz with a roach opening. lings are just as powerful and much more versatile.


Maybe it's just me, but I've never ever had a consistent ZvZ.
You show us a 25 minute game and complain that the aggression is whats wrong with it.

So essentially what you're looking for is a game with "no rush 15".
If this is any other race, the title would have been "Race X is OP, so Imba" :)
I feel ya. I think my zvz rate was like 26% last season while t/p was 60-65%. Im just horrible at individual unit micro. (I blame using a track ball my whole life and inability to use mice). I just don't have the point control. I can't click a gd single tiny speedling moving on creep let alone split them and send singles against banes. My strengths lie solidly in positioning and decision making. But that doesn't matter if you can't get past the ling bling wars.

I never actually win ZvZ. My opponent looses. The only ways i win is by opening roach and my opponent being to stupid to take a fast 3rd, or they just amove some baneling all-in into my sim city queen/roach wall (again to stupid to take the map).

I've just given up on opening ling bling because i can't physically control them worth !@#$ so i just open up slings into roaches. So far this season any game i can get a 3rd on, i win. Any game i can't i loose and its up to the level of stupid in my opponent to get it. Screw this match.
I find ZvZ the most rewarding. Of all the match ups, it's the one where I find myself constantly attacking or defending; there is so little down time. I love ling all-in vs ling all-in. It's fast paced and requires so much micro and fast decision making. Every action and decision has consequences. Building even one extra drone could be the end. Plus, doing a 10 pool with banes is hilarious.

~Cheers

i don't think you can get consistent results in zvz with a roach opening. lings are just as powerful and much more versatile.


Maybe it's just me, but I've never ever had a consistent ZvZ.

if you never skip ling speed or your baneling nest, zvz can be "consistently dynamic"
that's a good thing, in my opinion.
I hate rush mode. It forces the game to be an all-in. Either you commit to early aggression you cause enough damage to be ahead or you lose.. or you defend vs early aggression you either hold and win by getting ahead or take too much damage and then you lose.

If you understand the matchup and nail overlord positioning, defending can be much easier than attacking. You get an exact read on how many units come out of their base, you can guess how many drones they have from the amount of injects devoted to zerglings, and you can make banelings in response to waves of zerglings coming out. If you can nail these things and do better at baneling micro, you can get a significant drone lead. In a nutshell, defense favors the defender in ZvZ as much or more than the other matchups. Just get those overlords covering the attack paths, and you should know exactly how many units you need to defend at any one time.

Baneling micro feels hard, but it feels equally hard for all of us. All you have to do is do it better than the similarly skilled person playing against you ;)
Zvz is fun and its alot better than pvp that for sure :)
I hate rush mode. It forces the game to be an all-in. Either you commit to early aggression you cause enough damage to be ahead or you lose.. or you defend vs early aggression you either hold and win by getting ahead or take too much damage and then you lose.

It's so annoying how it all relies on one good baneling hit within the first 4 mins of the game or w/e. hate it.


If you don't know how to rush it means you can only play half this game. If you aren't okay with rush mode then you should quit since as terran you will have to do all in timings in every matchup at the 9-10 minute mark.

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