Which do you prefer? CC First or 1 Rax Fe?

Terran Discussion
Which of these openings do you prefer and why? Also, what build order do you use for each one?
For me, the 1 rax FE is dead. Here's what I do:

TvT: 1-1-1. I get my second CC after the rax is built, and depending on what I scout with my reaper I adjust. Usually I get the CC started during the factory being built.

TvZ: 1 rax 1 gas FE. If the reaper sees something worrisome I prepare for that.

TvZ: I'm stil trying to figure this one out, but 1 rax 1 gas FE doesn't seem to work.

I don't really rely on build orders, so I'll leave that to the others.
For me, the 1 rax FE is dead. Here's what I do:

TvT: 1-1-1. I get my second CC after the rax is built, and depending on what I scout with my reaper I adjust. Usually I get the CC started during the factory being built.

TvZ: 1 rax 1 gas FE. If the reaper sees something worrisome I prepare for that.

TvZ: I'm stil trying to figure this one out, but 1 rax 1 gas FE doesn't seem to work.

I don't really rely on build orders, so I'll leave that to the others.


I'm assuming CC First and 1 Rax FE are too vulnerable to all ins to bother attempting for you?
06/21/2013 03:51 PMPosted by Raver
I'm assuming CC First and 1 Rax FE are too vulnerable to all ins to bother attempting for you?


I've tried them, and I get stomped by all-ins, yes. Reaper scouts alone have won me a few games: oracle harass and raoch all-ins were met with PAIN. I've gotten so used to using reapers that it's hard to stop using them. I don't have the best mechanics, though: so some people have success with 1 rax FE and CC first but I don't.
06/21/2013 03:58 PMPosted by JorgeCis
I'm assuming CC First and 1 Rax FE are too vulnerable to all ins to bother attempting for you?


I've tried them, and I get stomped by all-ins, yes. Reaper scouts alone have won me a few games: oracle harass and raoch all-ins were met with PAIN. I've gotten so used to using reapers that it's hard to stop using them. I don't have the best mechanics, though.


Thanks for the heads up. I've been doing 1 Rax reactor expand mostly as it's generally quite safe, but economically it is a bit lackluster in the mid game. I've been trying CC first and noticed that it's much more powerful in the mid game, but I worry that it's very risky and vulnerable to all ins. Perhaps, 1 Rax FE is the most suitable option for me as I prefer to play macro games.
I gasless 1 rax FE on large maps. I don't like CC first a whole lot. It's good and all, but personal preference dictates that I 1 rax FE.

I take a gas and grab a reactor on my rax first on smaller maps, so technically I 1 rax FE on every map in every matchup, aside from when I scout an all-in and need to tweak it.
Gasless expands arent that great anymore outside of TvZ, but even then reaper openings are just so much better.

So I prefer reaper expand.
1-rax FE is a very bad idea except in TvT, and there's still way more options that are more effective in TvT.

CC-first is far superior to 1-rax FE in HotS. In TvP and TvZ, it is a practical and defensible opening with lots of excellent transitions.

TvP, it can transition into standard 3-rax bio, quick Tanks for a 2-base push, quick upgrades, mass Barracks, and holds almost all all-ins better than a 1-rax FE would. In particular, Blink all-in is much worse versus CC-first than a WoL style 1-rax FE.

In TvZ, you can go into quick bio play, 3CC double upgrades, Hellbat drops into bio, Hellbat drops into mech, Blue Flame Hellion. Mainly the question revolves around how greedy you want to be with your 3rd base and upgrades.
reaper expand in tvz is good you can switch to helion marine push later after you constantly harass zerg.
CC First obviously, if you are gonna die to oracles you mind as well go balls to the wall.
CC First obviously, if you are gonna die to oracles you mind as well go balls to the wall.


Funny part is that CC-first doesn't even lose to Oracles. If you scout it, the Oracle harass will do negligible damage; the only way it kills you is if it's followed with a massive Stargate/Gateway all-in. That's holdable with standard Bunker/repair shenanigans.
CC first I find to be too risky, i prefer reaper expand but I like to play safer lol
1-rax FE is a very bad idea except in TvT, and there's still way more options that are more effective in TvT.

CC-first is far superior to 1-rax FE in HotS. In TvP and TvZ, it is a practical and defensible opening with lots of excellent transitions.

TvP, it can transition into standard 3-rax bio, quick Tanks for a 2-base push, quick upgrades, mass Barracks, and holds almost all all-ins better than a 1-rax FE would. In particular, Blink all-in is much worse versus CC-first than a WoL style 1-rax FE.

In TvZ, you can go into quick bio play, 3CC double upgrades, Hellbat drops into bio, Hellbat drops into mech, Blue Flame Hellion. Mainly the question revolves around how greedy you want to be with your 3rd base and upgrades.


Thanks for this in-depth answer. :) Do you think CC first works well for TvT as well?
I find CC first superior in general.

TvT - I normally don't CC first since the variety of pressure openings is hard to handle.
TvP- It's pretty safe. Just scout what all in they're doing if any. This is safer than 1rax FE since a CC First gives you a higher marine count to deal with proxy oracles.
TvZ - Safe and not really punishable. I use it to great success.
*Bump*
1rax gas FE vP
CC first vZ
1rax gas FE vP
CC first vZ


What do you do against T though?
Gas

You can get away with gasless openings on bigger maps, I don't recommend it.

Check out my blog @ sc2builds.blogspot.com
Gas

You can get away with gasless openings on bigger maps, I don't recommend it.

Check out my blog @ sc2builds.blogspot.com


Okay, thanks for your opinion. :) I'll check out your blog.
06/21/2013 08:11 PMPosted by Raver
Do you think CC first works well for TvT as well?


Unless you are absolutely certain he isn't going 2-rax Reaper, no. A 2-rax Reaper opening will murder a CC-first player, and any Reaper opening is a pain to deal with on any map not named Red City (that map is so huge). I have seen people go CC-first into Hellbat drops, but that's much more of a professional "I respect that my opponent goes macro, so I'm going to macro harder" kind of thing rather than a strict "CC-first is totally safe" that it is in TvP/TvZ.

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