I just realized why I am now bad at Zerg.

Zerg Discussion
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I definitely feel you a bit. There's been a bit of an arms race, with new units added, and sc2 is a game with units that tend to hard counter each other.

The big thing really seems to be the power level of the new stuff. WM /hellbats were stronger than wol units, so other units were made or buffed from WoL. But stuff that was unchanged does show it's age.

I disagree that Sh haven't opened any new paths (just much less than were closed), but both new units are very niche, and high tech. So they were never going to mess with stuff as much as units in main armies.

It was a problem i had in beta, with the niche flavor compared to stargate (essentially becoming part of main army comps,and wm/hellbats also being main army units.
I feel quite the same doing the same boring stuff so often, if you truly feel that way then I advise you to play WoL instead and just do what you did to have fun, there is no reason to stop enjoying what you used to enjoy.

As for the post you wrote I agree that toss and terran got very valuable units and abilities, but all I say is blame blizzard for this crappy race design.

In fact I recall a time that zerglings were once powerful when utilized in a giant swarm, but that was broodwar.
Against Protoss, most of the time you just have to hold off the all-in and then kill their third and win . . . sounds like is a concept that you don't really understand or appreciate, playing mass pure ling styles against Terran, when banelings make your composition so much stronger. Swarmhosts, Broodlords, Ultras, Infestors are all really cost efficient still. Vipers? Derp.

I feel like you're just saying, "I don't want to play normal because I'm an individual and skilled players are beating me because I don't adapt to the way the game changes." Well tough luck boyo, this game is harder to play well. And believe it or not, that's a good thing.


Wow. I am not really sure how to respond to this other than to tell you how far you missed the point. I am capable of grinding out builds that end up with blah+blah+blah. But have you beat 1200pt master terrans with pure lings? What about mech terran? Or 1200pt master protoss with bane rain? No? Well I have. Yet you write in your post like it is EZPZ roflcaust--as if I were taking the easy road--then you contradict yourself by saying "X-combo is stronger" like you know something I don't. I can tell you it is a thousand times more difficult to win with those two strats than it was to 3/4-base turtle into winfestor+GGlord and a- f-move to the win. Your victory stood on the edge of a razor.

HotS didn't up any skill level. Are you kidding me? There you sit telling me to go broodlord ultra infestor viper.. Zerg's only option now is to turtle until (X) is out. Great. That sounds like it takes so much more effort than 3-pronged attacks with drops while taking so many expansions you are mining the opponent's 4th because that's the only remaining base. The only thing HotS did was tell us: "You can't do this, this, or this anymore. You have to go muta or wait until ultra."

06/25/2013 10:21 AMPosted by Tamerlane
I disagree that Sh haven't opened any new paths


Well, OK. I have to take that back. They gave us a hilarious mid-game allin.
I do get very sick of being a punching bag all game long while I tech to one of three armies that can handle a straight-up fight. I missed out on WoL zerg because I quit playing too early in the game, so I probably don't miss any of the things you miss, or miss them as strongly... but I do look with considerable envy at the seemingly infinite flexibility of the other races. Their unorthodox strategies are viable, and in some cases even supported by buffs in the interest of 'variety'.

I chose zerg because I wanted to be reactive; to learn to see through and counter the moves of other players while being aggressive, and constantly trying to keep them off-balance. Instead, I find myself making, pulling, and defending drone lines for ten to fifteen minutes, and then moving out with a very toss-like deathball that I robotically make because it is one of few combinations of units that has a fighting chance. Perhaps some of that is my own lack of skill, but I hear similar complaints from people all up and down the ladder.

Even ZvZ, which you could once count on to have early-game aggression, has become an irregular mix of ling/bane all-ins, and rushing to roach/hydra balls while sitting behind an evo wall with spines/spores and queens. The ONE MU where we could once be free to play on the map, and players are willingly sitting in their shells for fear of messing up their ling/bling micro.

Maybe it's different at higher skill levels. I really don't know. What I do know is that this "turtle, make drones, tech to A, B, C army comp, try to starve your opponent out" rhythm is a cancer that is killing Zerg near the upper middle of the ladder. We're slowly being reduced to playing like Protoss. If I wanted to simcity and follow a standard BO to an all-in, I would be playing Protoss.
06/24/2013 09:04 AMPosted by VapidSlug
Learn to micro and build mutas


My post is exactly about HotS units requiring certain builds in every matchup (mutas) and eliminating all other options.


I've used hydras with success in TvZ before, and swarm hosts are decent against mines, so we're not entirely forced to go muta.
I agree with OP 100%.

I don't think there is much to add to this because he hit the nail precisely on the head.
swarm hosts are decent against mines

I'd be surprised if A. The Locust got near the Mines. B. you weren't dropped to death.

Its because Zerg's production mechanics are extreme. Extremely different from Protoss/Terrans.
If only they'd tone down the macro mechanics of all three races, then they could focus on the problems the races actually have, rather than super buffing specific units to make the game fast and determined by one misclick.
06/25/2013 04:36 PMPosted by Setho
I've used hydras with success in TvZ before, and swarm hosts are decent against mines, so we're not entirely forced to go muta.


I am actually messing around with host/hydra. The problem is that I am inconsistent with my play. I regularly lose to platinums, then randomly play like a master again. So I can never tell if it is so much that I am winning with something viable or that my opponent is losing the game because he didn't know how to react.

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