Possible changes for balance test map

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08/13/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Zibbibbo


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At0PE4rdhsI9dDE0cEprWkwwMGxQdTczTTlLNW1qX1E#gid=10

omg, someone still believe in this !@#$ty document?


I agree, here are the real stats

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/race

It's actually scary how even the race distribution is.
I think blizzard is making to many radial changes at once (except ovey speed boost). It would be better if they implemented small incremental buffs to z similar to the warp prism buff.

Heres a suggestion I mentioned earlier that will buff zerg and not affect z v p to much:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9653125242

Thanks
INTERESTING..

omg, someone still believe in this !@#$ty document?


I agree, here are the real stats

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/race

It's actually scary how even the race distribution is.


sorry but, sc2ranks is borken too

anyway, probably the zerg changes will pass, they will start to squeeze vipers in any comp/timings and we will have another "infestor era", then devs will "wait and see" for about 6-8 months, because T and P have to learn to adapt while blizzard keep sewing the game around zerg


2. Combine mech ground and air upgrades

We don't think Terran is struggling, but do think mech in general has been weak throughout HotS. We tested this specific change a bit in the beta, and we have some idea of how much better mech will be, but a lot has changed since then, so we'd like to actually have players playtest it again.

Right now, it's looking like the only area where Terran might be weak is late game PvT, but it’s debateable. If so, this change would address that area, because upgrading Vikings that are really core in the matchup will also help with the Hellbat transition in the late game.

Thank you!


It is clear that blizzard doesn't even pay attention to their game. Terran is struggling. It is certainly NOT debatable who has the advantage in late game T or P. It is blatantly Protoss. I don't think I could find a single player who says otherwise. Protoss players are very much aware that they have an advantage late game.
08/14/2013 12:00 AMPosted by RamboJeezus
. Terran is struggling. It is certainly NOT debatable who has the advantage in late game T or P. It is blatantly Protoss.


I find it really confusing that most of high end tournament results are not approving this. Terran has a really solid winrate on the highest level in every match-up and the edge terran has in the midgame is a huge.

08/14/2013 12:00 AMPosted by RamboJeezus
I don't think I could find a single player who says otherwise. Protoss players are very much aware that they have an advantage late game.


This has nothing to do with balance. Terran obviously has the edge vs. zerg in the lategame while zerg has an edge over protoss in the midgame but not in the lategame etc. etc. If you want to directly critisize this DESIGN then you've to target the DESIGN. Design of the game is not the same as balance of the game. Most of people mix up these two; it's prolly bad DESIGN that race X has to kill race Y before a certain point or they lose (most likely) but the match-up can still be thoroughly balanced. I think protoss vs. terran in WoL was pretty awfully designed match-up that gave terran a huge edge during the midgame and gave protoss a huge edge into the lategame. In HotS I think it's pretty much the same after the hellbat nerf though. Terran has huge edge during the midgame while protoss has huge edge in the lategame.

Blizzard has somewhat been interested in doin something about this design but it definitely does not harm balance right now. I don't think terran is overpowered even if i feel like they've a huge mechanical advantage in the lategame vs. zerg (widow mines are easy-to-use and in the lategame they're so many that it takes a lot of skill of zerg to handle all the pressure while terran can still extend their toughness by dropping and multitasking.
the issue is the same, ladder and tournaments are way different

on ladder, protoss have a big advantage, in tournaments, where progamers can actually incrase the efficiency of their races, terran have this advantage because they are rewarded more than protoss

i'm not saying terran easy or that one race require more micro/macro than the other, they both require a huge amount of management skills, i just feel that protoss aren't rewarded as much as terran from this at the highest level

and that's, indeed, a design issue
Have to agree with:
Overseers needing buff

Allow Contaminate to target mechanical units alongside structures, units affected can still attack and move, but cannot use spells or activated abilities (Blink, Prismatic Alignment) and any cooldowns (such as the Widow Mine's) would be halted for the duration of the spell.

Is an awesome way to do that

Also one thing I'm curious about: In beta, Overseers had the ability to spawn Infested Terrans. Why not allow them to spawn Infested Terrans again-- in ADDITION to what all else they can do? :E

Also have to say?

Can has mine nerf pls? :(

And Raven buff- Removing Durable Materials and just making PDDs and Auto-Turrets come with 240 second lifetimes? :E
Have to agree with:
Overseers needing buff

Allow Contaminate to target mechanical units alongside structures, units affected can still attack and move, but cannot use spells or activated abilities (Blink, Prismatic Alignment) and any cooldowns (such as the Widow Mine's) would be halted for the duration of the spell.

Is an awesome way to do that

Also one thing I'm curious about: In beta, Overseers had the ability to spawn Infested Terrans. Why not allow them to spawn Infested Terrans again-- in ADDITION to what all else they can do? :E

Also have to say?

Can has mine nerf pls? :(

And Raven buff- Removing Durable Materials and just making PDDs and Auto-Turrets come with 240 second lifetimes? :E


mine cant has nerf please. because if mine has nerf pls, zerg has power to a-move terran again.

seriously, stop crying about the mine when your micro control sucks.

main problem with zerg players these days is that they simply refuse to attack from different angles and keep attacking with the whole army from the front.


I agree, here are the real stats

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/race

It's actually scary how even the race distribution is.


sorry but, sc2ranks is borken too


Please explain.
08/14/2013 12:00 AMPosted by RamboJeezus
Protoss players are very much aware that they have an advantage late game.


Terran players are very much aware that they have an advantage mid game.

Asymmetrical balance.
I think the Overseer buff is good. I am confused about the Mech/Air shared upgrade; didn't they try this already in Beta and it did not work. I don't mind a small nerf to the WM splash radius in exchange to a buff to the tanks (additional damage to armored units). It is pretty simple, not sure why Blizzard is holding off.
I've just made a topic about 2 kinds of ideas about blinding cloud. Here's the link for those that want to comment in the topic there and I'll also quote the opening post I made for those that don't want to go to the topic.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9661596174?page=1#2

I think everyone agrees that the Viper can use a buff but it can also use a nerf in some fashion as well. The main ability that causes this issue in my opinion is Blinding Cloud.

Both of my ideas are a type of AOE silence ability that lasts a few seconds. It would give zerg an anti caster tool, which they need, and replace an abilty that is either too good against compositions like mech or too weak against compositions like bio. I don't have details on the two ability ideas like range, the size of the AOE, the energy cost, or the duration of the ability but I figure it would give blizzard a good idea to help balance things and help everyone out.

It can be a standard AOE silence ability. It would be a bit boring but it would be easier on blizzard to make and be actually useful.

The other idea is more complex and hard to make other would be a harder make for blizzard but be a but cooler ability. It would be an ability that put a debuff on a group of targets that would trigger off the first energy costing ability they cast. If they do cast something, their cast would be successful but the unit would be stunned for some time.

I welcome all suggestions and comments.
08/12/2013 12:34 PMPosted by dodgeZX
As a protoss, i am damn glad to see a terran mech buff

You are not Protoss, so stop trolling.

I agree with 1. Other changes, I guess the test map will show.

3. Vipers start with full energy
TROLOLOLOL

so i can feedback them even sooner :D ty for your work dayvie


That...
How bout this:

Vipers spawn with full energy

Blinding cloud changed to (insert not-so-subtle name here): spell reduces the rate of fire of unites hit by spell by 50%

That way the unit can be useful vs Bio so those marines don't have to walk just 5 feet to avoid it AND it is still useful vs mech just not as much.
Balance it out.

Vipers spawn with full energy
HT spawn with storms researched and full energy
Ghost spawn with cloak and nuke ready.

/balanced
08/12/2013 12:45 PMPosted by Chaz
Oh hellooooo skyterran ;)


Oh sweet jeezes yes.

I think your stupid/genius build just got a bit more viable xD

!@#$ing nerdgasm
1. Overseer speed buff (after upgrade)

TvZ feels quite balanced until the very late game when there are so many skirmishes and so many Widow Mines. We want to keep the really exciting gameplay while finding ways to help out Zerg in those specific battles. Having to micromanage your army in every engagement, morph new Banelings, manage 4-5 (or more) bases, and morph new Overseers can be a bit too much. So we’re going to test giving Overseers a speed buff after the speed upgrade is purchased, so that we keep the early- and mid-game the same while specifically helping out the Zerg in the later stages. They still wouldn't move as fast as say, Mutalisks, but perhaps late game TvZ goes more evenly if Overseers don't lag behind and get killed in most late engagements.


This makes absolutely NO sense at all. How does buffing overseers help AT all with all the issues you mentioned. Widow mines are 'GUARANTEED' dmg vs Zerg. That is the problem. Lings and banelings are MELEE units, and currently if Terran is applying constant pressure, overseers are going to do NOTHING.

The problem is, in the late game a terran can SPAM Marines (gassless) and NEVER lose the mines (cost very little gas). While the Zerg has to spend A LOT of gas to stay toe to toe. And the problem is... All the Terran has to do is keep poking and moving up with mines while the Zerg has NO choice to either retreat, or go in fighting... Risking ALL their lings and banelings while the Terran has 16 rally points of Barracks with marines streaming across the map.

The problem has NOTHING to do with detection. The problem is the fact that widow mines take out lings and banelinegs so easily... and the terran sits there laughing because all it takes is 1 lucky mine and its GAME OVER. Do you not realize this Blizzard? Terran don't give a !@#$ about losing the mines or the marines because he knows that once the Zerg attacks and takes out their army with banelinegs and lings... they can just keep sending in marines and the Zerg is still %^-*ed.

Blizzard your idiots. Making overseers faster does NOTHING.

Those speed overseers can contaminate barracks and stop that steam train of marines a lot better now instead of spamming changelings only you can run in spam contaminate push gain map control=profit

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