Possible changes for balance test map

General Discussion
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I like the ideas.

For the first one, though - have you all considered instead, to make Widow mines unable to burrow on creep?

This would both reward the zerg for creating/holding creep spread, while at the same time not have to worry about the insane micro requirements in late game harassment.
BBBut.... full energy Vipers?...
Wouldn't blinding cloud super overkill Mech even more?
Regarding the viper change, high templars will insta snipe vipers that come out to the field and vs terrans, idk really.
BBBut.... full energy Vipers?...
Wouldn't blinding cloud super overkill Mech even more?


Yes it would.

I don't understand the devs logic on this one at all.

The reason no one is using the Viper is because its spells are useless in ZvZ and useless vs Bio/Mine. It isn't because of the energy cost or need to use consume right when you make them.

Adjusting their starting energy just makes the Viper better at what it already is good at, it doesn't help it become a more versatile unit.
oh great .. I didnt even think about combining the mech air and mech ground upgrades ever again ..
but I feel like this buff mech the nessessary direction

full energy viper is a great idea also .. I feel like vipers then could be a good option against bio mine on hive tech.

But other than that I wanna see great new icons .. if u take those mech upgrade changes the old icons will no longer fit the sense of a mech ground and air upgrade :) so we need new icons
and I want also see a new passive spell icon on the viper .. just like from the mutalisk regeneration passive spell icon.. and give that passive spell a reasonable name and reasons for it :P
It will help new players know why that unit is that special and it's cool ;)
I don't get the full energy for vipers... They can just consume which gives them full energy very quickly. And overseer speed AFTER upgrade???? seriously? that upgrade gets researched in 1% of the games, and the overseers themselves don't do !@#$, its the changelings! doesn't make any sense...

And as a zerg i'd rather face a bio mine army than a maxed out mech army, since most mech games end up in base trades.
1) Decent idea, rewards micro.

2) Bio can transition to mech or skyterran in TvT, mech can transition to skyterran or incorporate sky more effectively as support in all matchups so looks good to me.

3) Vipers at full energy from the getgo? Looks like Vipers will become useless in zvp, still be useless against bio, but now is ridiculously OP against mech. Also, this breaks the design rules about casters.
08/12/2013 12:48 PMPosted by EzMarcoPolo
I don't really understand how giving vipers full starting energy is going to change much of anything, they already get full energy after 10-15 seconds after spawning anyway


And they always seem to come out just barely too late in ZvP, so this will help. The point is that the unit is strong enough, but it is hard to get to it in time where it is needed.
Widow mine is not interesting in the game,it must be modify for better game experience.
thank god no widow mine change. Its nice seeing zerg actually have to micro against terran!
so what about protoss?

now that viper starts at full energy, what about a 12 min push of roach and a couple of viper?
and what about a proper counter to mutalisks? like giving fenix the +2 range for free?
Nice, love it!
I agree with everything on there. At least, they seem to know exactly what is the current problem. Hope to see all the changes there soon.
Viper full energy + consume are you serious? Nooooooooooope.
While we are at upgrades, you might as well remove the Durable Materials upgrade from Raven and just increase the life-span of Auto-Turret and PDD to 240 seconds as they spawn.

Or make the upgrade to remove the life-span from PDD and Auto-Turret altogether.
How about we un-nerf the neural parasite? Or something like make the recharge on the mines shorter, but make them visible while they recharge.
I know these are just "Suggestions" but let me explain something to you from my point of view.

    1) You can defend Widow Mines just fine without the upgrade, Overseer speed isn't the problem.
    Suggestion: An upgrade @ Lair makes every overlord into overseer no abilities on it, similar to BW

    2) Not going to help mech in the slightest, only going to help whatever currently exists better vs Z and P
    Suggestion: None

    3) Not going to stop the underlying problem, Viper timings are only good if not scouted, they're easily countered otherwise. This is only good against Stardusts all in.
    Suggestion: None


Edit: Viper Buff is actually a Zerg NERF and a Protoss BUFF. Feedback instantly kills Vipers now no matter what.
protoss 45% population in gm leage. How those changes help to fix this situation?

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