Call to Action: August 19 Balance Testing

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A change that will actually help the zerg deal with mid-game pressure.

- Set the default range of hydralisks to 6 instead of 5 and remove the grooved spines upgrade.

This will stimulate more speed hydra play, which in my opinion is pretty exciting.
Could we test a faster attack on the thor, or perhaps a more microable haywire ability?
PLEASE test more mech changes ;; godamn it
Hello Mr. Kim, and all of my fellow forum goers, in the previous iteration of this map I played roughly 12-13 games I believe, in both ZvP and ZvT, I am at this moment a top 8 diamond Zerg, but have kind of floated from mid-high masters all the way to low diamond, I am more of a viewer and less of a player nowadays with work keeping me busy.

I have played at this time 10 more ZvP and 10 more ZvT games with these new Ultralisk changes, my partner with this was a low masters Terran and a fellow low masters Protoss player, and here is my thoughts.

I played no mirror match ups, since I do not really like ZvZ anyways and I played these games on my own time, I just wanted to play non mirrors, hope that doesn't garner any criticism on the relevance of my other opinions on these changes.

ZvP

Overseer change is actually deceptively powerful in this match, now, grabbing sometimes an earlier speed upgrade in the games have greatly strengthened not only my scouting abilities (Overseers are insanely fast, only Phoenix and blink Stalkers have any hope of killing them if you are controlling them well.) but has greatly strengthened the use of Contaminate.

The ability to consistently have your Overseers darting in and out of the Protoss bases I would say gives Zerg an upgrade and tech edge, with two Overseers, just two, I was able to greatly delay my opponents Colossus count, his tech, and was even able to land some on his Forges, very fun to play with, and a good little buff.

Ultralisks however, may actually be too strong against Protoss, unless they are really going for a hardcore robo based army, or just mass Void Rays. Zealots, while bad against the new flat damage Ultralisks, were still able to hold them at bay while the Stalkers and back of the army did some damage before the Ultralisks closed in on, this is no longer the case, the extra 50 HP actually is a significant boost in longevity vs. any Protoss army that isn't heavily composed of Immortals, Archons, or Dark Templar, I almost would go as far to say that this buff makes Ultralisks a little TOO durable vs. Protoss.

ZvT

The new Overseer is pretty good now, it is indeed easier to not lose it in big fights, and it really helps when using Mutalisks to pick off the Widow Mines, they do indeed keep pace with Mutalisks much better, but really, as much of a buff as this is (not having to constantly replace them is great, the extra gas really does kind of add up) the Overseer's role in this match up is far more limited then it is in the ZvP match up, so I have no choice but to keep it short.

A good little buff, good on you David, have to say this buff is a good one that impacts both of Zerg's non mirror match ups in a positive way <3

Ultralisks however are just, relatively the same, I mean I guess they of course survive a little bit longer, but Ultralisks were already amazing vs. Marines and Mines, it was when the Marauder count got too high that Ultralisks start waning in effectiveness, but that actually just seems to still be the case. 3/3 Marauders with stim still chew through the Ultralisks, the extra 50 hp just kind of vanishes against large stimmed bio armies.

Opinions

In ZvT, Ultralisks are a little better at annihilating marines and mines, which they were already really good at, and it doesn't take Marauders really any longer to kill them, and it's still transitioning that is the dangerous part of a ZvT, and the endless mine/marine parade that is dangerous, so the Ultralisk in ZvT actually accomplishes close to nothing, it made it better at what it was already good at, and it still is killed by the things that killed it before, it just takes 0.8 seconds longer.

In ZvP however, they are extremely hardy with 3/6 upgrades, really forcing the Protoss to play re actively to Hive Tech, which is what made WOL so bad, Zerg is supposed to be reactive, not Protoss, with their inflexible tech tree, it just means that Protoss will either go mass Void Rays or will have to go heavy robo in the late game vs. Zerg, always.

Opinion on Ultralisk buff, bad.

In my opinion we really shouldn't abandon Viper changes to enhance their use in ZvT, all they really need is to be strong against bio, and much weaker vs. Mech, this would enable Hive tech armies to really stand up once a few Vipers come out, with good control, the Zergs can turn the tide without needing 12+ Ultras with Infestor support.

Blinding Cloud Changes

Blinding Cloud now decreases range by a flat 5, but any biological unit that steps out of the cloud still blinded for 2 seconds.

And to the Overseer, no long winded stuff for that one in this opinion, a really good change that does help in ZvT, but really opens up options in ZvP.
A change that will actually help the zerg deal with mid-game pressure.

- Set the default range of hydralisks to 6 instead of 5 and remove the grooved spines upgrade.

This will stimulate more speed hydra play, which in my opinion is pretty exciting.


That is a great idea, period. ZvT right now is one big mid-game.
08/21/2013 02:05 PMPosted by Lumi
ZvT right now is one big mid-game.


But Zerg can actually survive this mid game, it is the transition to to end game that Zergs are having trouble with this.

A Hydralisk buff doesn't seem possible without greatly hurting ZvP, in which Roach/Hydra/Viper is already considered standard, stable play. As much as I would totally love Hydralisks being buffed, I just can't see it happening.

I am adamant that the Viper must be buffed against strictly biological units.

Or, if they are not willing to buff it against bio.

Buff it against Widow Mines <3
Sounds great! Looking forward to these changes!
A change that will actually help the zerg deal with mid-game pressure.

- Set the default range of hydralisks to 6 instead of 5 and remove the grooved spines upgrade.

This will stimulate more speed hydra play, which in my opinion is pretty exciting.


That is a great idea, period. ZvT right now is one big mid-game.


Agree, ZvZ is in dire need of help atm, it's almost as bad to watch as hellbatdrop TvT was.
I think a baneling buff would help Zerg out a lot, what if the Zergling Adrenaline Gland affected Banelings also? Maybe add more Speed, upgrade the attack, or something on those lines. Possibly decrease the morph time of Banelings, or tinker with the Baneling Centrifugal Hooks Upgrade. I like the idea of the Viper starting full energy, maybe even increase the rate energy is gained with consume. Just some thought I wasnt sure if they had been thrown out there. Also i think something must be done about overseer, love the speed upgrade, but need a more efficient, faster way of getting them,or keeping them because they use up overlords quick. maybe think about increasing the cast range of infest.
ok ok ok. Here is a balance that might be reasonable to everybody. and should change zvt forever.

Maybe!

How about significantly decrease cost of both overlord upgrade for speed and drop. while keeping the the new buff for overseer.

Time to see more zerg drops! Why should only toss and terran abuse it.
08/21/2013 12:24 PMPosted by Yoshi
PLEASE test more mech changes ;; godamn it


Sorry, those GM use mmm only and player such as me can't get a relevent result with using terran mech easily.

But I can tell you a formular ~

zerg air > terran air + widow mine = protoss air > zerg air
zerg ground > protoss ground > terran factory unit

Terran mech has 2 units that deal friendly fire, they are tank and widow mine. Tank has so many counters so that it is considered underpower for a long time. And widow mine can be countered by skill, such as mmm + scan, mutalisk hit and run, blink stalker and long range units. Widow mine still good in zone control, but it is less useful in high league. In addition widow mine deal more friendly fire than tank. It gives terran mech an auto lose if you bring widow mine along with your team.
yeaaaaahhhh um...

If you could realize the Ultralisk was fine and that corruptors/broodlords are useless that'd be greeeaaat.
yeaaaaahhhh um...

If you could realize the Ultralisk was fine and that corruptors/broodlords are useless that'd be greeeaaat.


Office space quote successful.

+1
not enough. Still not balanced. when is blizzard going to balance the TvZ match up? the point isnt end game, its zerg never being able to attack.

If terran can win by doing a 2 rax, hellion run by, mass cloak banshee, or just mines getting a connection on baneling or muta, yet zerg cant win unless killing every unit over and over and over and over again, that's not balance. That's zerg out playing terran.
not enough. Still not balanced. when is blizzard going to balance the TvZ match up? the point isnt end game, its zerg never being able to attack.

If terran can win by doing a 2 rax, hellion run by, mass cloak banshee, or just mines getting a connection on baneling or muta, yet zerg cant win unless killing every unit over and over and over and over again, that's not balance. That's zerg out playing terran.


what a nonsense comming out of a zerg fanboy. Random player here

Imo.
bio mine vs zerg is good, but ultra's are way to 1a move compared to kiting of the marauders.
i think viper blinding cloud should be adjusted for mech and kept the same for bio
more energy to compensate indeed
what a nonsense comming out of a zerg fanboy. Random 13 games played silver league 2v2 player here


Fixed that for you.
A change that will actually help the zerg deal with mid-game pressure.

- Set the default range of hydralisks to 6 instead of 5 and remove the grooved spines upgrade.

This will stimulate more speed hydra play, which in my opinion is pretty exciting.


I've been asking for this for about 3 years now -_-
A change that will actually help the zerg deal with mid-game pressure.

- Set the default range of hydralisks to 6 instead of 5 and remove the grooved spines upgrade.

This will stimulate more speed hydra play, which in my opinion is pretty exciting.

Nah keep the grooved spines upgrade but make it a hive upgrade. That'll also help zerg out in late game as well and against harassment as well.
It would be great if we could actually discuss with the Devs in this thread, if only through a few posts.

Right now, this discussion feels so one sided, and it is really easy to think that you guys are ignoring us.

I realize there are some posters who just want to cry and complain, but some of us can be level headed. Please consider this.
08/21/2013 12:24 PMPosted by Yoshi
PLEASE test more mech changes ;; godamn it


This. Do something with servos, 50/50 no armory would be ok at this point.

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