Sep 16 Rogue Leveling FAQ (6.x) Update: I know that this is out of date for the prepatch. I plan to have a new version ready before legion launches. This FAQ is for new rogues. It is full of simplifications and generalizations. The focus is on optimal leveling speed and viability. This is not how things will work for end game pve/pvp. Be sure to read though the notes, as I've tried to explain major exceptions and caveats. Bold/underline is direct question answer. But, as you will see, many choices can not be made in a vacuum. If any class is about experimentation and situational planning, the rogue class is and to fully understand the class, you will need to think this way as well. As always, I do my best to field questions in this thread as fast as possible. But don't be afraid to pop in a say hello, and ask a question on the floating community thread which is nearly always active. Just look for the "Tricks of Our Trade" thread and I guarantee that you will get a near immediate response from a knowledgeable and friendly rogue who will gladly take the time to help you. Or you can contact me on youtube, twitter or email. Ask me anything. Email: wavefunctionp on gmail Twitter: @wavefunctionp Youtube: Video Combat Video Guide: A basic explanation rogue mechanics and combat spec rotation. Assassination Video Guide: Down and dirty assassination gameplay guide. Twitch: Watch some unscripted gameplay of from past streams. Feel to free to laugh at me. :P I announce a live stream on twitter. (Usually late night into the morning).Aeriwen386 Sep 16
Oct 18 Roguedom: Common Rogue Q's & A's (Last updated Oct. 21, 2016.) Whether you're new to the class or a grizzled veteran, there's always more to learn about playing a rogue. In this thread, I’ll do my best to answer commonly asked questions on a wide range of topics relevant to every level and breed of rogue. At present I'm keeping this thread to PvE questions only; I'll fill in PvP gaps in the future. If you've got any suggestions, Q's you'd like to see A'd, corrections or general death threats, feel free to post in this thread, flip me the bird at @SvelteKumquat or email me at I look forward to completely ignoring your messages. :)Rfeann224 Oct 18
Oct 16 6.0.3 Mutilate PvP How-To: Cold Blood... ... Ladies and gentleman, I'm going to be brief. And by "brief" I mean I'm going to update this stupidly-structured, gargantuan and entirely NOT brief post of mine. Patch 6.0.3 is here, and that means I need to get back to work. I think it's time we hacked out some of the brain-dead introductory material to streamline this steamy pile a bit. Here we go. ------------------------------------------------ 6.0.3 ASSASSINATION CHANGES IN THEIR ENTIRETY ------------------------------------------------ Lovingly stolen from Jokaste's PvE guide: Go read it. ... ------------------------------------------------ SPEC-SPECIFIC PERKS ------------------------------------------------ Improved Slice and Dice -- Slice and Dice is now always passively active. Enhanced Vendetta -- After activating Vendetta, your next Mutilate, Dispatch, Envenom, or Ambush has 100% increased chance to be a critical strike. Enhanced Crimson Tempest -- Crimson Tempest also increases the damage targets take from your poisons by 30% for 1 sec plus 1 sec per combo point. Empowered Envenom -- While Envenom is active, you deal 20% more damage with Mutilate and Dispatch. ------------------------------------------------ TALENTS ------------------------------------------------ There will be differences in opinion here. Keep calm. Breathe. This is a guide, not a bill on the Senate floor. Use whatever arrangement makes you happy. I'm only suggesting what has worked for me. ... ... Nightstalker -- Increases your movement speed while stealthed by 20%, and the damage your abilities deal while stealthed by 50%. The only time I would consider this talent is MAYBE for carrier-killing in Kotmogu, and that's still a stretch. Great for transmog runs in dungeons/raids? Subterfuge -- Your abilities requiring Stealth can still be used for 3 sec after Stealth breaks. Nerfed in 6.0.2 to no longer keep you hidden. Not really a deal-breaker though. Incredible CC potential (see "Openers" section), but since we don't like to use Ambush it no longer has much going for it in our eyes. Shadow Focus -- Abilities cost 75% less Energy while you are stealthed. Another good choice, and a recommendation for the casual PvPer that enjoys random BGs. Paired with Anticipation, it makes for very high burst potential without starving you of energy or forcing wasted combo points. With the advent of Subterfuge's change, this talent shines even brighter. ... Deadly Throw -- Finishing move that reduces the movement speed of the target by 50% for 6 sec. If performed with 3 combo points, also interrupts spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for a period of time. Good when you're up against ranged opponents. Essentially lack-luster in any other situation. You will almost never find yourself timing the throw correctly to interrupt/silence anyone. Main use is a ranged snare. Nerve Strike -- Causes a successful Kidney Shot or Cheap Shot to reduce the damage dealt by the target by 25% and healing done by the target by 10% for 6 sec after the effect fades. Sounds good on paper, performs well in practice. The choice between this and the next talent really comes down to whether or not you're selfish. Would you rather peel for your healer, or save yourself? Combat Readiness -- Enter into a state of heightened awareness, deflecting enemy weapon strikes with increasing effectiveness. Successive attacks will deal 10% less damage per application, stacking 5 times. Lasts for 20 sec, but if 10 sec elapse without any incoming weapon strikes, this state will end. An "Oh !@#$" button if I've ever seen one. If staying alive means your arena team wins then it's absolutely worth it. Only works against melee, so obviously not recommended against ranged players. ... Cheat Death -- An attack that would otherwise be fatal will instead reduce you to no less than 10% of your maximum health, and damage taken will be reduced by 85% for 3 sec. This effect cannot occur more than once per 90 seconds. In situations where 3+ potential targets can wail on you (5s, RBGs), this is not the talent to use. Formidable in 2s, even 3s; situations where you won't be slammed by the GCD of the next schmuck in line with you in his sights. Can really save the day when the stars align, and if you're willing to ride that train all the way home, go for it. Also works great on Hexos in the Brawler's Guild; gives you an extra shot at killing him if you screw up, so hey...knock yourself out. Leeching Poison -- Coats your weapons with a Non-Lethal Poison that lasts for 1 hour. Your melee attacks have a 50% chance to poison the target for 10 sec. Your subsequent weapon strikes against the poisoned target will heal you for 10% of damage dealt. Hilariously terrible. All your damage is from poisons, not weapon strikes. Of all 3 specs, Assassination makes the least weapon strikes against a target. You are hurting yourself with this talent. Move along. Elusiveness -- Your Feint ability also reduces all damage taken by 30% for 5 sec. Elusiveness' 30% mitigation, and 100% up time when you need it are tough to beat. You can stack it with other damage reduction abilities (smoke bomb and/or glyphed cloak) to buy yourself time for a heal if situations are dire. ... Cloak and Dagger --Your Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot abilities can now be used from 40 yards away, and will cause you to appear behind your target. I still can hardly fathom why someone would want this talent. It serves some purpose when paired with Subterfuge for a multi-target Cheap Shot, but that's about it. I'm not going to hide behind a pillar forever or use Vanish just so I can port 40 yards. No thanks. Shadowstep -- Step through the shadows and appear behind a target. Movement speed is increased by 70% for 2 sec afterwards. A very strong talent considering the present choices. Great for reaching players on ledges above you, and saving your skin in BGs like Eye of the Storm (I'm looking at you, Shaman). This is the talent you run when it comes to interrupts or stuns that need to happen RIGHT-%$(@ING-NOW. You got ground to cover, do it instantly. Burst of Speed -- Increases movement speed by 70% for 4 sec and removes any movement-slowing effects. Does not break stealth. Great choice here. Doesn't exactly carry Shadowstep's surprise factor, but you're going to be hell to kite or catch. Works hilariously well with Shadow Focus (costs 7.5 energy in stealth; spam it). No longer stacks with Nitro Boosts (/cry), and is back up to a 30-energy cost. Time to start being mindful of how often you mash this button out of stealth, people. ... Prey On The Weak -- When you disable an enemy with Kidney Shot, Cheap Shot, Gouge, Sap, or Blind, they suffer 10% increased damage from all sources for the duration of the effect. It's useful all right, but man is it boring. I am not a personal fan, HOWEVER, I also don't find myself in 3s or 5s very often, where this talent really shines...and lordy does it shine bright. That's 10% from all sources. Everyone. Sic 3-5 people on your stunned target and they're going to cry. In 2s though, I find it far more useful to opt for a control talent, I'm just not convinced you're going get the maximum benefit from that 10% bonus unless you're running a 2s team whose sole purpose is simply to pop all their cooldowns, slap things and hope for the best. Internal Bleeding -- Your Kidney Shot also causes the target to bleed for (124.2% of Attack power) damage per combo point over 12 sec. Paralytic Poison's replacement, and not a bad one at all. The bleed can be pretty wicked. Useful in twos; useful with a healer; useful in any situation where you don't have a bunch of helping hands to smack people when they're stunned. For instances when you DO have said help, Prey on the Weak is still probably your poison for 10% damage from all sources. Also has a bad habit of not applying when the target is immune to stuns. Watch out for that. Dirty Tricks -- Your Gouge and Blind no longer have an Energy cost, and no longer break from damage dealt by your Poison and Bleed effects. True, this talent is definitely not the talent of choice if you're doing 3s or 5s. There are far too many sources of damage that can ruin your CC. But it's solid in 2s despite what you've been told, especially if you're running with a healer. Gouge becomes a free interrupt at worst, and a solid free 4-second CC at best. It's your new best friend. Gouge everything. Keep your Glyph of Blind if you see fit, just remember you'll have to get your peanut butter all up in your target's chocolate to gouge them without Glyph of Gouge (ie. face-to-face). You will also lose the ability to Blind -> Stealth -> Sap your target, as better explained in the glyph section. This tier is situational and depends on a lot of factors, not the least of which being your personal play style. I can't make a strong recommendation here. It's better you find your own preference, or use what the situation calls for. ... Shuriken Toss -- A ranged attack that deals 2493 (+ 60% of Attack power) Physical damage to an enemy target. If the enemy is farther than 10 yards away, your autoattacks will be replaced with ranged shuriken for up to 10 sec, granting them a 30 yd range. Shurikens are coated in your Lethal Poison. Awards 1 combo point. Replaces Throw. It has some merit against ranged teams, but we've got other means of catching them. There are better alternatives in this tier. Marked for Death -- Mark the target, instantly generating 5 combo points on them. If the target dies within 1 min Marked for Death's cooldown is reset. Works pretty well with Combat and Subtlety because they can use it for back-to-back Eviscerates among other things. Back-to-back Envenoms don't translate quite as well for Assassination rogues. You'll end up clipping the initial Envenom's 30% poison application buff. We don't necessarily like that. It's good for 5 free combo points if your target is about to die. Can also be used for instant 5-point Kidney Shots or Ruptures. Very useful utility when you need that special something right this very second, and you don't have the energy to make it happen otherwise. An obvious life-saver in stressful situations. With the advent of our 4-piece bonus in 6.0.3, Marked For Death's use, while still undoubtedly amazing, is diminished slightly. Take that for what you will. Anticipation -- When one of your attacks generates a combo point on a target that already has 5 combo points, you gain an Anticipation charge, up to a maximum of 5. When you perform an offensive finishing move on an enemy, any Anticipation charges are consumed to grant you an equal number of combo points on that target. Solves a pretty major quality of life issue with the Assassination spec: 4-point finishers. Without this talent you will CONSTANTLY find yourself debating whether to use a finisher at 4 combo points, or risk wasting combo point procs in order to get 5. Problem solved with Anticipation. For the assassination rogue that likes to "GO HAM!" and keep things simple. ... Venom Rush -- Increases your maximum energy by 15. Increases your energy regeneration rate by 5% for every enemy you have poisoned, up to 3. A marvelously simple talent. A good way to get that 150 energy feel back, considering we lost our 30 energy set bonus from the previous season. One cheap FoK in a group of players should land you a solid regen buff and a high chance at a crit proc for an additional CP. Shadow Reflection -- Summon a shadow of yourself on the target that will watch you and memorize your offensive ability usage for the next 8 sec. After this time, it will mimic the memorized abilities on its target over the next 8 sec. I'll admit, I haven't tested this one in great detail. Been having far too much fun with Venom Zest. Granted in PvP it can have a solid impact on control, I'm going to defer to Jokaste's appraisal on this one: ... Death From Above -- Finishing move that consumes combo points on the target to empower your weapons with shadow energy and perform a devastating two-part attack. You whirl around, dealing up to (133.3% of Attack power) damage to all enemies within 8 yds, then leap into the air and Eviscerate your target on the way back down, with such force that it deals an additional 50% damage. Is that not the f*cking coolest-sounding and coolest-LOOKING talent ever? This was the first talent I chose when I dinged 100. It's also the first talent I spec'd out of 15 minutes later. As an Assassination rogue, your CP-builders are expensive. You've lost the 30 energy bonus from the last season. If you're not using glyph of energy you're sitting at 120 energy. This talent costs 50 energy. To me, it just doesn't seem to have the oomph it needs for the cost it demands. If I can manage to use it when I need it, I'm usually energy starved afterwards and I've gimped an Envenom buff. Compounding this issue is the fact that DFA can be nullified. You can be pulled by a DK mid-air, or shadowstepped or wild charged or what-have-you. Ultimately this means you've spent 50 energy for nothing. I've had much better results with it in Subtlety, though. ------------------------------------------------ GLYPHS ------------------------------------------------ 6.0.3 brought us a lot of new glyphs. Let's take a look. Glyph of Energy -- I'm running this one. With Venom Rush you got yourself 155 energy. I'm in the business of dumping my energy, and Glyph of Disappearance -- Also running this. Works wonders with our new 4-piece bonus. Just remember to bind/activate stealth afterwards. Can be a bit buggy in that if you Vanish while in a large group of people AoEing or what-have-you, it won't allow you to activate stealth manually and you'll pop back out a few seconds later. Better be prepared to run. Glyph of Elusiveness -- Misleading name. I haven't yet been able to justify a major glyph for 30 seconds off a 2-minute cooldown that I can reset with Prep if I really need to. Glyph of Energy Flows -- Haven't tested this one. Sounds hilarious when used against the right people though. Doubt that laugh every 2 minutes is worth the major slot. Now, for the oldies-n'-goodies. Glyph of Blind -- Pretty much your main-stay. You don't want it breaking when you need it most. Thumbs up, but it does have an unintended side-effect. Dirty Tricks users will not be able to Blind -> Stealth -> Sap as their DoTs are not removed via this glyph, and will break the Sap. Fair warning. Glyph of Recovery -- Everyone loves 20% more heals, but is it worth a major slot? My playstyle has me using Recuperate in short spurts though, so I personally haven't justified it yet. If you love using Recup, you love this glyph. That's the short of it. Will definitely see a lot more action in arenas where you can be the center of attention. Worth a recommendation for sure.. Glyph of Gouge -- Amazing with Dirty Tricks. Enjoy your free gouge without positional requirements. Casters will loathe you. High-five, bro! Glyph of Feint -- Pretty straight-forward. Maximize your up-time with Feint for that sexy 30% damage reduction through Elusiveness. If you're using this glyph for any other purpose you're just silly. Glyph of Cloak of Shadows -- I'm not much a fan of dying, so I like this glyph. Tell both casters and melee to shove off. All with one button! Glyph of Garrote -- I don't personally use it. If you take the Subterfuge talent, Garrote ends at just the right time for a Cheap Shot before the talent wears off so I find little use for it. Others are absolute diehards over this glyph though, and I can't say they're wrong so it still gets a recommendation. ------------------------------------------------ REFORGE STAT PRIORITY ------------------------------------------------ ... Hit and Expertise are gone; BREAK OUT THE GOOD WINE! Mastery is still your bread-and-butter. Crit will always have value through Seal Fate. Multistrike has a reduced (1) chance to proc in PvP as opposed to PvE (2), so it gets knocked down a peg. I'm unsure if multistrike procs can also proc Venemous Wounds, so until I do I'mma leave it pretty much equal to Versatility for now. Anyone got some insight in that regard? Holler at me. Scream like only the forums can. ------------------------------------------------ GEMS ------------------------------------------------ Everyone gets their knickers in a twist over this, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. With resilience gone, and the fact that socket colors seem to be irrelevant, maybe this'll be less of an assault on everyone's sensibilities. For rich !@#$%es: Greater Mastery Taladite or Greater Critical Strike Taladite For poor peons: Mastery Taladite or Critical Strike Taladite Good lord are those blue gems going to be expensive. Especially at the start of the season. Buyers beware. I took a look at Noxxic (my eyes!) to see what they're babbling about over there. I don't know what I expected, honestly. I just...I don't understand why they're listing the mastery gem so low in value. With the return of Cold Blood, you'd think the crit gem wouldn't be as high as it is either. Then again I've never understood why Noxxic recommends what it does. I want what they're smoking half the time. Get back to me on this with your own personal experiences. This guide is always subject to change. ------------------------------------------------ ENCHANTS ------------------------------------------------ ... Neck -- Enchant Neck - Gift of Critical Strike or Enchant Neck - Gift of Mastery Cloak -- Enchant Cloak - Gift of Critical Strike or Enchant Cloak - Gift of Mastery Rings -- Enchant Ring - Gift of Mastery Weapon -- Enchant Weapon - Mark of Bleeding Hollow ... Neck -- Enchant Neck - Breath of Critical Strike or Enchant Neck - Breath of Mastery Cloak -- Enchant Cloak - Breath of Critical Strike or Enchant Cloak - Breath of Mastery Rings -- Enchant Ring - Breath of Mastery Weapon -- Enchant Weapon - Mark of the Shattered Hand ------------------------------------------------ OPTIONAL ITEM(S) ------------------------------------------------ Greater Draenic Agility Flask or Draenic Agility Flask -- Really shines in WPvP and random BGs. Obviously not allowed in arenas. Draenic Agility Potion -- No arenas either, but a great addition to your cooldown macro(s). STOCKPILE THIS ITEM, SERIOUSLY. You will burn through these almost as fast as I change channels when an ASPCA commercial comes on. Draenic Invisibility Potion & Draenic Swiftness Potion -- If you gotta get away, you gotta get away. Sinister Spores & Super Sticky Glitter Bomb -- Earned mainly through the Gladiator Sanctum, these are hilarious. Both are wonderful in WPvP, but sinister spores can't be used in any instanced play. Glitter bombs, to my knowledge, can't be dispelled through Cloak of Shadows, so start slappin' 'em on every yellow health bar you see! Any of the engineering devices -- The shield shares a cooldown with healthstones, but has saved my #$% countless times already. The rockets hit like a freakin' TRUCK (50-77K crits, not in Kotmogu), and the gliders are useful to anyone that doesn't have the cloak tinker. Stealthman 54 can't be used in combat, so that sucks. ------------------------------------------------ (DE)BUFFS TO MAINTAIN ------------------------------------------------ Rupture -- Rupture provides has a chance to proc something called Venemous Wounds every time it ticks. Each tick has a 100% chance to deal nature damage & give you 10 energy.Sadly it used to work with Garrote as well back when the proc chance was 75%. It was a trade-off I guess. You should have at least 1 Rupture on somebody, somewhere. The more people you have bleeding, the more energy you'll get. Elusiveness -- 30% damage reduction. 100% up time if you're carrying the flag/orb, or when you're being tunneled. All other times, you can save the energy for something else. Glyph of Feint can help with this. Recuperate -- Restores 4% of your health every 3 seconds (5% if glyphed). While you can argue it's not the greatest or fastest heal in the world, you can't really turn your nose up at it either. Use it when flag carrying or being tunneled along with Elusiveness, or whenever an encounter is going sour. ------------------------------------------------ COOLDOWN(S) ------------------------------------------------ Vendetta -- A wonderful 30% damage boost. With Shadow Blades removed, this is all we got, folks. Be aware this is not considered a buff for you. Rather, IT'S A DEBUFF PLACED ON THE TARGET, IT CAN BE REMOVED. Vanish no longer seems to be able to do that though. Hoorah! Bubble & Ice Block will still remove it. Boo. Make sure to be at 5 CPs and pool your energy before using. Use the Cold Blood buff on Envenom, then spam Mutilate/Dispatch during the 20% envenom buff. ------------------------------------------------ TRINKETS ------------------------------------------------ As far as DPS trinkets are concerned, you have a few options. Primal Gladiator's Insignia of Conquest -- An absolutely marvelous proc. A full 213 agility more than the on-use trinket. This would be my first choice. Primal Gladiator's Badge of Conquest -- No longer a huge fan of these types, but everyone has their preference. The question becomes: are you willing to accept the smaller agility bonus for the control of its use? Primal Gladiator's Badge of Adaptation -- This one's interesting. We sure do like mastery, and the versatility bonus is large enough to matter for a change. On-use though, and requires a rep grind. Sounds iffy to me. There's really only one option for your free-action trinket: Primal Gladiator's Medallion of Cruelty ------------------------------------------------ MACROS ------------------------------------------------ Now, I'm one of those super cool guys that uses a Naga mouse so I don't have many macros that aren't something simple like a rebound key: shift-1 or ctrl-5. I will tell you however, that I use Engineering for both the Nitro Boosts and Goblin Glider. If you're seriously considering going the PvP route, I suggest you do the same. The reason I say this in the macro section is that as of 5.3 the Goblin Glider will NOT FUNCTION WHILE THE NITRO BOOSTS ARE ACTIVE. Because of this, you'll have to make something along the lines of the following for your Glider if you plan to use the Nitro Boosts just beforehand: /cancelaura Nitro Boosts /use Goblin Glider With that out of the way, let's talk damage. We've got our one-and-only cooldown mentioned above: Vendetta. We've also discussed your trinket options. We need to make them work together. If you're the kinda player that likes to control your damage and you chose the badge trinket: /use <badge of conquest goes here> /use <whichever draenor agility potion you're using> /cast Vendetta If you did not take the badge trinket, just remove that line from the macro. Remember, VENDETTA IS A DEBUFF ON THE TARGET. You need to be targeting something for it to be used; it will not activate with everything else otherwise. How about a sap macro? #showtooltip Sap /cleartarget [nomod] /targetenemyplayer [nomod] /cast Sap This will target the nearest enemy player and sap them, duh. Because of the cleartarget line, do not target a player before hitting the macro. You'll deselect them and sap the player next to them. But the cool thing is if you hold down any modifier key (shift/control/alt) it will cast sap normally so you can still use it on mobs or players you want to hit specifically when targeted. ------------------------------------------------ OPENER(S) ------------------------------------------------ Your opener largely depends on the target. However, there is a cookie-cutter option if you are spec'd into Subterfuge. It's most effective on casters/healers. I use Mutilate instead of Ambush in stealth as it costs 5 less energy, has an additional chance to poison the target, and procs Blindside. Some consider this a gamble, and like to stay with Ambush. It comes down to personal preference. The possible benefits of Mutilate outweigh Ambush in my opinion. For most casters/healers I open with Garrote -> Mutilate -> Cheap Shot. Since I do not have Garrote glyphed, its silence effect only lasts 3 seconds (which is the length of subterfuge) and therefore lines up perfectly with my Cheap Shot. If the player does not break either the silence or the Cheap Shot, this opener makes for 8 straight seconds of lockout. It's very effective, but we're not done. At the end of this opener, you will have 5 combo points. Sit on them and do not use them right away. Just let your auto-attacks unload on the player while they're sitting in the Cheap Shot stun. If you proc'd Blindside in your opener, use it now. If you're spec'd into Dirty Tricks, as I suggested you be, Gouge them the second Cheap Shot fades for 4 extra seconds to build energy. Your DoTs will continue to damage them while you stand there. /emote at the player while they sit in Gouge. This step is ESSENTIAL but highly variable; which emote players use is subject to personal preference. I prefer /fart. When Gouge fades, use your 5 combo points on Kidney Shot. You'll have pooled a very nice amount of energy at this point. Pop your cooldowns and go to town. That's one dead player you got there. And if your aim isn't to kill...all said and done, this method tallies as follows: 3 seconds -- Garrote 4 seconds -- Cheap Shot 4 seconds -- Gouge 3 seconds -- Kidney Shot at 50% diminishing returns 14 seconds of lock-down. Highly recommended against healers. ------------------------------------------------ POISONS ------------------------------------------------ Lethal As you just begin to gear, you will make a bigger impact on an enemy's health using Wound Poison as your lethal. As you obtain gear and stack your mastery, however, Deadly Poison is going to be your bread and butter. I use it nearly exclusively, save for a particularly pesky healer. Non-Lethal With Paralytic Poison out the window, we've got one less thing to consider. We also no longer have our 2-piece bonus where Crippling Poison would always apply whether or not it was active. Leeching Poison -- We've discussed its uselessness before, so I swear I better not see any of you out on the field with it active. You'll hurt my feelings. Crippling Poison -- This is probably going to be your one-and-only. Without the 2-piece from previous seasons, we don't have much of a choice. Mind-Numbing Poison -- Finally has a use now that caster's aren't insta-casting everything, but if we use it the only thing we're gonna see is our target running off into the sunset because we had to give up Crippling Poison for it. It's up to you, folks. ------------------------------------------------ USEFUL WEAKAURAS STRING(S) ------------------------------------------------ The following is for WeakAuras users that wish to easily track their Vendetta/SB durations, and when to use Dispatch without having to stare at health bars. Simply copy this string and then import it into WeakAuras: d8drhaGAQq16LQOBJe7sQsTnK0(iHYmPc5Zk1SL4WICtQq58urFJk1PP0ojP9c7MQ2pjQFsLmmL04uKVtfmueIbtImCP0brGlrcXXuuNtkSqsXsffwmcYYr1dri9uvltQ8CjnrKstLIjtQMoXffLUQOOllCDuAJsrBvQcBwuTDsWhLQKVscPPPeZJeQgPuv9mez0Oy8iuNeb1TqkUgP09KQYJrQ(lI63kmMHbpbde8k(CVx6T7EpVItbxhxhgCESTdVXzBGV5d2w8G42Kxp0Hg8AuYjYW6fCnUmgxoMJY20GN01TID4tfYc3U3bVcdeCRoUdjU363vCplfd3U3bVc1z8YiPddoFucyWPWwelmqGabcoDyG6mm45dVCBpdO2nHtFugCyGAhuxHkj0CrB3Ch11P1osUB4UrhYPrBdi462ABj50eel4ksRYk1JSQ0M1yiaNhB7WBC2g4sqSG70vEEneOUGB1X7rwvAZAmeGlC7EhCyW5bf8v8HdEx(ItObN1BfCjX3HGZwJmckqdopO4Qn4jzWXvmCFIsuHbQZ49i86Hiji46bHyZZnoBd8(jidhRzMoccUdwDHbnD3n35UHw3lZKi1G6YeYPzrlE(Wl4zlkKjHvwPMdVG7zPy429o4vOoJZe2nJGMUNMM7AqLkvsAxinToHCAwMWlJKom4S1Gm9sQwHgC(OeWGtHTiwyGabNEjvRWGxT(DjWZWvVYmlei4jDDRyh(uHSWT7DWRWabcu7GbpF4LB7za1UjC6JYGddu7G6kujHMlA7M7OUoT2rYDd3n6qonABabx3wBljNMGybxrAvwP3pb06srvwjAjqLOzX5X2o8gNTbUeel4oDLNxdbQl4wD83pb06srvwjAjqLOzXfUDVdom48Gc(k(WbVlFXj0G7tuIkmqDg)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(koBniZePIWan4mrQimKhTbpjdoEF9H3gC6HxyIuryWxXzRb52Gtp8ctKkcdieEBWPhEHjsfHH8On4jzWX7RpC2AqM1BfObcei4c3U3bhg8HdEx(ItOb3NOevyG6mUMI1RxT6bei462QJZ6PlwfcObpNNOex4jjbvT4oy1fg0u7kvQAxOo1G6cj3DltiNMfT45dVGNTOqMewzLAo8cUNLIHB37GxHAhoty3mcA6EAAURbvQujPDH006eYPzzc3PR88AiqLMUv8YiPddoBnitVKQvObNpkbm4uylIfgiqWPxs1km4vRFxc8mC1RmZcbcUvhNwcFIqGHO9dbcUcqDEzDfca ------------------------------------------------ Well guys, those are my basics. It's not my intention to have this be the all-encompassing guide to Assassination PvP. I'm sure everyone has discrepancies. The intention is to reduce the amount of question threads. Deal? Now get out there and make their blood run cold.Toryk176 Oct 16
Oct 9 [Guide] Rogue Raiding Compendium Good day! My name is Alc. I am the writer of this guide. I do not own or claim any information here. This is not based off of my experiences exclusively. It's based off of a pool of knowledge that someone cataloged, processed, and presented. If you wish to dispute anything in this guide, here's what I want you to do ... ...............................................!!!!!ATTENTION!!!!!......................................................... Jokaste has a guide written specifically for Assassination Rogues. I cover Assassination in this guide, however, hers is more in depth and likely better. Check it out! =) Table of Contents Introduction Section I: Specialization Overview Section II: The Basics Section III: Talents and Glyphs Section IV: Gearing and Preparations Section V: Passive Effects Section VI: Stabbing for Dummies Section VII: Non-DPS Spells Section VIII: Proofs Oct 9
Oct 6 Shadow Dance and the Stealth Bar We’ve been reading all of the feedback throughout beta regarding Shadow Dance and the desire to have it use the “Stealth action bar.” To get right to the point, after an upcoming hotfix, Subtlety Rogues will find that Shadow Dance swaps their main action bar to the alternate bar that is used while in Stealth. For a bit of context on the late change to our thinking on this: we rarely allow automatic functionality (such as action bar swaps, or macros) to choose between core damage abilities on the player’s behalf. We believe it’s important that the player has to make those choices themselves. The Rogue Stealth bar has always been a minor exception to this, but for many years, the Stealth bar was only active for the single ability you used to open a combat, and was not seen again for the duration of combat (other than with Vanish). The ability to bind your openers to the same buttons as your rotational abilities was a convenience that didn’t affect your use of abilities in combat. However, the new Shadow Dance (and to a lesser extent Subterfuge), has resulted in some Rogues regularly using openers during combat, as elements of their rotation. In this case, the Stealth bar changes from a minor convenience that lets you place once-per-combat buttons on more convenient keybinds, to actually making regular, mid-combat decisions for you. That said, after following the ongoing discussions and carefully considering your feedback, we understand the desire for consistency with other abilities that allow Stealth-only actions. Given the gray area that Shadow Dance is in, and the widespread feedback that using the Stealth bar would be more consistent and intuitive, we’ve decided to go ahead and allow Shadow Dance to once again swap your main action bar. This hotfix is scheduled to live with weekly restarts in each region. A few details for players who use macros to further manage their buttons: Shadow Dance will be treated similarly to Subterfuge for the purposes of macro conditionals. It will not activate [stealth], but it will activate [stance:2]. If you want to make a macro that mimics the behavior of the main bar (i.e. swapping when you have any of Stealth, Vanish, Subterfuge, or Shadow Dance), you can use the macro conditional [bonusbar:1].Ornyx124 Oct 6
Jul 19 Jo's Compendium of Mutilating: Seeya in 7.0! DISCLAIMER: This guide is outdated currently! It will likely not be updated until a few weeks after Legion launches. Until then, I will be changing things over time, so don't be surprised if things don't make sense! The tell all guide to assist you in plunging two daggers into the heart of Archimonde! Learn how to maximize your defense! Be the envy of the other melee in the raid! Live through extreme damage! Pull more burst than ever before! Be the prize member of your raid team! (Warning: Do not attempt any of the practices in this guide unless you are an Assassination spec'd Rogue!) ~Changelog~ 10/16/14 - The Iron Tide crashes into Azeroth! Made my first pass at updating the guide for the new patch and decorated the hidden gumdrops with spikes of iron and bone. 10/18/14 - Herped my derp and missed some things with the 6.0.2 patch update, changed the stat section. Began the Great Changelog Purge to prevent having the changelog become half the guide. 10/22/14 - Found more missed parts of the guide, mostly wording to things that aren't around anymore like profession bonuses. Updated gem section and some talent descriptions. 11/10/14 - Updated rotation section to reflect the pandemic changes affecting Envenom. 11/14/14 - Started updating the guide for Warlords of Draenor. 11/17/14 NEW N' TASTY! Finished updating to level 100 Warlords. Combined enchant and gem section, eliminated some outdated wording, added new glyph recommendations, added new talent tier, reworked stat priorities, changed rotation guidelines and covered everything in a delicious Lemon Zest. Removed Herobrine. 11/19/14 - Made some changes to the 100 talent tier section. and expanded on the rotation section to accommodate for Shadow Reflection. 11/21/14 - Changed the enchant recommendations, elaborated more on multi-target section. Released the Molten Corgis. 12/02/14 - Expanded on the rotation section. 01/06/15 - It's a new year! Finally got off my lazy butt and updated example fights for talent descriptions. Also updated the enchantment section. 01/17/15 - Added a paragraph on Vanish and Premeditation into the rotation section, expanded on Vendetta section. Changed some syntax and grammar choices. Removed all parasprites and sent them back to the Everfree Forest. 02/02/15 - BRF OR BUST! Began updating the guide for Blackrock Foundry. Lamented that 'Blackrock n' Roll' doesn't fit as the new tag line. 02/19/15 - Stopped being lazy and updated enchant section to reflect Shattered Hand losing value. 02/25/15 - Updated Leeching Poison for the new changes in 6.1. Removed Herobrine. Or added. I forget at this point. 03/02/15 - Updated the foreword section with another communication option. 06/29/15 - Patch time! Started updating the guide for 6.2: Fury of Hellfire. 09/3/15 - I'm still alive! Finished updates for 6.2... Almost three months after the patch came out. Changed references to Premeditation to Preparation. 04/27/16 - Since there's very likely to be no update until Legion, I had some fun with the title. Compendium of Mutilating 1. Your Initiation - Foreword (J1): 2. Your Tools - Common Terms, Abilities and Abbreviations (J2): 3. Your Build - Talents and Glyphs (J3): 4. Your Gear - Stats, Enchanting and Gemming (J4): 5. Your Cunning - Common Tips, Tricks and Strategems (J5): 6. Your Victory - Afterword (J6): ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your Initiation - Foreword (J1) The first spec on your left, Assassination has classically been a bit of an oddball spec. Originally following the same path as the Arcane spec for Mages, in the early days of the old talent point system, most Rogues only ventured into the tree for Seal Fate, a talent that gave extra combo points on critical combo point generating moves like Backstab and Sinister Strike, or for Cold Blood, a now deprecated talent that used to ensure a critical strike on your next ability. As it went through expansions it slowly began to gain traction until Cataclysm, when Assassination was able to hold it's own against the other two specs. Now, Assassination is as competitive, if not more so, than Combat and Sub. The rotation is simple and requires less management than the other two specs and pulls exceptional numbers. Assassination has come a long way from it's origins. This compendium will help you identify common Rogue terms, maximize your gear, talents and glyphs, and perfect your strategy in raid encounters during patch 6.0.3: Warlords of Draenor. Most of the advice in this guide will focus on preparing you for Blackrock Foundry (Which releases on February 2nd.) but should apply just as well to previous raid tiers and other content. If you have any questions or suggestions, please, feel free to leave them in a reply to this thread! I'll get back to you as soon as possible. I also have a Twitter! Just send a tweet to @JoTheRogue to chat! ... Your Tools - Common Terms, Abilities and Abbreviations (J2) Common Terms AP - Attack Power Crit - Critical Strike Rating Mastery - Mastery Rating Multi - Multistrike Rating Vers - Versatility Haste - Haste Rating CD - Cooldown GCD - Global Cooldown Common Assassination Abilities and Abbreviations (Stuff that should be on your bars) Mutilate (Mut) Dispatch Marked for Death (MfD) Shuriken Toss (Toss) Rupture (Rup) Garrote Cheap Shot (CS) Kidney Shot (KS) Envenom Slice and Dice (SnD) Recuperate (Recup) Shadowstep (Step) Burst of Speed (BoS) Sprint Deadly Poison Leeching Poison Crippling Poison (Crip) Gouge Blind Kick Feint Evasion Combat Readiness Stealth Vanish Fan of Knives (FoK) Crimson Tempest (Tempest) Vendetta Smoke Bomb Cloak of Shadows (Cloak, CloS) Sap Venom Rush (Rush, VR, Lemon Zest) Shadow Reflection (SR) Death from Above (DfA) Non-Assassination Abilites and Abbreviations (Things that can't be on your bars, for reference) Hemorrhage (Hemo) Backstab (BS) Shadow Dance (ShD) Sinister Strike (SS) Blade Flurry (Flurry, BF) Killing Spree (Spree) Revealing Strike (RS) Adrenaline Rush (AR)Jokaste262 Jul 19
Oct 26, 2010 Welcome Rogues: Please Read! Welcome to the Rogue forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss the rogue class with your fellow World of Warcraft players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct ( and guidelines ( before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
1m Thank you for the nerfs Blizz! All justified and needed... Rogues were insane, and now they are where they are supposed to be. Thank you blizzard for listening!Treesaiyan0 1m
3m The rotting and crushed horse corpse So how many more !@#$ing times is Sub going to have its HP reduced in pvp? The best talent in the row already cuts 20% off. What's next, all sub rogue are now lvl 107? Was sub performing well or something? Did I miss that? I already don't play it in instanced pvp because its a glass nerfgun, but that extra 5% is just the sweet spot, eh? The perfect little bit of seasoning left, was that little 5% extra.Badjuicy2 3m
8m What are you even doing anymore..? It's pretty clear that you don't even know. A flat nerf across all 3 rogue specs when one has nothing to do with the other? L O L That's all that needs to be said here. Holinka you are the best troll, man. What happened to the days of identifying the problem with an ability that was a bit too strong, and tuning it down a bit? What happened to the days of actually putting clear thought into changes before you tossed them out there? I think most of us were hyped when you introduced this "tuning nob" that allowed you to change PvP without effecting PvE in order to keep arena balanced. Now it's pretty clear you're just using it as a tool to be lazy and over-nerf entire specs and classes by a flat % instead of taking the time to identify the real issues with particular abilities and/or passives and tuning them. Literally am at a loss for words over how bad you're making your game, and how distrustful you're making your player base. You're clearly not even trying anymore.Bronco0 8m
20m I don't understand the Rogue Nerf Explanation This is from the October25 Patch Notes: ... You nerf both our stamina, and our damage, AGAIN, and lump all three rogue classes together as if they all have the same strengths and weaknesses, when two weeks ago you said this: ... So each rogue spec is, as you describe, different, with Outlaw having the utility, and Sub having the mobility. But you just ALL rogues with the same justification, as if each spec is the same. How can that be? I can understand one or the other: Nerf our damage if you think it's still too high, or nerf our survivability if you think that's too high, but to nerf both, across all 3 specs? That doesn't address the issue you say Rogues display, which is that they have too much survivability while dealing damage with utility. In essence, what you're saying is "we want rogues to be strong but vulnerable. So we've made them more vulnerable, and also less strong." I just find that hard to understand. You clearly have archetypes for the different specs, but you're balancing, it seems, without any consideration of said archetypes. You say you want one thing, but then your actions take it in a different direction. It's hard to feel settled in the game, or confident in your class, when these hits keep coming, and they don't seem to make sense. It's disorienting and discouraging as a player to have to deal with this, and also fear this at any moment. These changes take their toll on the playerbase. They deflate excitement and identity of a player to a class. They create a distrust of the people making these decisions, and that translates to less engagement and attachment to the game itself. It's not a sudden thing, but it definitely builds up over time.Tuckered8 20m
30m Sub rogue aoe Like most rogues I've been struggling hard, with mythic dungeons. I came back to the game last month after an 8 year haitus. So I chose my old spec to boost to 100. In any case, I've finally unlocked second shuriken. I only chose it because I wanted a bit more aoe for mythics... but it's actually pretty damn good. When using WM, I'm often hitting a target for 300k with my shruiken storm. Then I'll apply night blades to everyone and I'm hitting 500k dps. I can't believe how good it is. Am I wrong? Because it feels very powerful but no one ever really talks about it.Chrisevo0 30m
40m Subtlety PvE guide Hi all, I noticed a few people might be turned off to Subtlety for PvE, and I just wanted to see if I could help. I main Subtlety, obviously. My Weapon is currently level 25, and I currently have an Item Level of 852. I can currently dish out somewhere in the realm of 300k+ dps on a single target. Even if I screw up or Shadow Techniques doesn't go my way, I nearly always come out with at least 280k, and that's if I'm being an idiot. With that said, I routinely find myself scoring top dps in boss fights. I honestly have not seen that many Mythics or Dungeons where my Single Target dps wasn't the highest. Yet for some reason, I routinely find people that mention they can't get above 250k DPS. One my suspicions is that there really any up-to-date guides out there for Subtlety. I found one on Icy-Veins, but... It is nowhere to even close to what I use, and when I used it, I lost a lot of DPS. Without further rant, here is my setup: Tier 1: Master of Subtlety Tier 2: Subterfuge Tier 3: Vigor Tier 6: Premeditation Tier 7: Master of Shadows Any tiers I didn't mention don't really affect your dps. For stat Priority, I stack Mastery => Versatility > Crit > Haste. Versatility and Mastery offer very similar results in terms of DPS, but I number crunch a lot, and I find that my best results are found when I put a very slight priority on Mastery. The whole build or rotation is based around 1 very simple combo: Wait for 1 CP from ST, SS > SS > Finisher > SS > SS > Wait for ST > Finisher (ST = Shadow Techniques, SS = Shadow Strike). This combo is the bread and butter to your rotation, because a majority of Sub's damage comes from Shadow Dance. Vigor is important because it helps with managing energy. It helps from accidentally over-capping your energy when you are waiting for ST to go off. Master of Shadows helps to smoothen the rotation. Doing this combo knocks 30 seconds off of the Shadow Dance cooldown. There really isn't much of a rotation as much as there is a set of rules. Rotation: 1. Keep Nightblade and Symbols of Death up 100% of the time. 2. Wait for ST before and after the combo. Use Backstab if you are at risk for energy capping. 3. Don't begin the combo with less than 80 Energy, as you will starve if Energetic Stabbing decides to not go off. 4. Wait until you have ~100 Energy before you begin the combo if you need to reapply Symbols of Death (you can still do the whole combo without interruption). 5. Use Vanish and Goremaw's Bite when they are off cooldown and it is convenient. 6. DO NOT use Goremaw's Bite during Shadow Dance. 7. DO NOT use Vanish OR Goremaw's Bite while you still have 3 Shadow Dance Charges. 8. Try to Avoid having 3 charges of Shadow Dance for long periods of time. Follows these rules, and you're golden. The basic idea is that you treat Shadow Dance like a resource, not a cooldown, and how well you manage it makes a massive difference. Think of it like energy: You don't want to starve yourself, but you don't want it maxed out either. I do occasionally find myself using the Combo even before I ST goes off because at this point I'm comfortable enough to know roughly when it will go off. You will notice that I didn't mention Shadow Blades. That is because it has its own set of rules. When to use Shadow Blades: - If the Boss fight is pretty short and doesn't have a burn phase, Use it in your opener. - If the boss has a burn phase, save it for the burn phase. - If the boss fight is kind of long, but doesn't have a particular burn phase, save it for when you are out of Shadow Dance Charges and need to use Backstab for a while. The reason being that using it during Shadow Dance can cause a lot of Combo Point Overflow, even if it does smooth out your rotation. Then of course you have the rules for Trash mobs. - Use Shuriken Storm when there are 3+ enemies - Spread Nightblade to all non-mini enemies. - Don't be afraid to use Shadow Dance, but try maintain at least 2 charges of it (you will need it for the boss fight). Finisher Spam combined with Vigor and Master of Shadows makes this super easy. Always Remember that Subterfuge is, for all practical purposes, a mini Shadow Dance. Take this into Account during your opener. I really hope this helps!Exìtus2 40m
45m Assa Rogue - Heroic EN Logs Review Hi fellow rogues! I completed 6/7 bosses in heroic Emerald Nightmare tonight. I did pretty poorly compared to my ilvl colleagues and other rogue parses I have seen. I would appreciate anyone who could look over the logs and let me know what areas they think I could improve. The most glaring thing is very poor rupture and garrote up-time, but I feel like I am most likely doing other things wrong well. I ran MP/AP and some MP/EX. I don't think I have the crit for EP? DandyAndy Assa Rogue ilvl 865 Crit - 35% Haste - 10% Mastery - 110% Vers - 1% 45m
51m Finding Nothing but Fel Artifact Relics Literally every artifact relic I find, with loot spec Assassination, has been Fel. I found a few iron before via world quests... but now EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. IS. FEL. I can't use Fel for anything, blizz. Cmon. -.-Turanx0 51m
1h Dissapointed with no Shadow Nova Changes Patch 7.1 was the perfect time to fix Shadow Nova so that it doesn't constantly screw us over. They could have: Made it toggleable Made it so it doesn't pull neutral mobs Made it so that it doesn't break the CC of other people But they haven't done ANYTHING to address this. As far as I know, they haven't even MENTIONED anything about it. It's just disheartening that I have to purposely not take my third golden trait because I know it will just cause me lots of grief.Railguy2 1h
1h Mut rogue Pvp nerfs (Not mentioned in notes) So i've heard some crazy stuff like 30% less damage on bleeds/poisons, a significant health decrease, and other rumours. While i can personally confirm that our health in pvp has been lowered by a significant amount and that our damage has been severely nerfed, I can't tell exactly how it has been nerfed. If anyone has actual comparison numbers for pvp dmg of our primary spells I would love to take a look, just trying to figure out what they've neutered.Voor12 1h
1h Your Guide to Topping Charts: Assassin/Sub Introduction: Hey Guys! I'm not much of a poster but I was sad to see that there isn't much discussion about or help about how to play a rogue effectively. There are definitely websites like icy-veins that help players get the general idea, but it's slightly outdated! There's also other various guides around that offer great information, but they are normally obscure to find and sometimes difficult to dissect. So I wanted to make a post that we can all collectively put our input into properly playing both of the current competitive rogue specs for PVE. This Guide Won't be explaining the very basic concepts of the class other than a short overview because there are other very well written places to obtain this information. I'll be going over rotations, openers, the value of talents and how they effect your stat priorities. About Me: I don't have a very impressive repertoire as a Wow Player. I started in mop, immediately went into mythic (Old Heroic) SoO and then went to start my own guild. I had to retire from WoW due to work reasons in Warlords so I never got to jump into mythic content there. I am however a very competitive and generally a skilled player. I theory craft for hours and sit in front of training dummies testing rotations, talents and stat priorities more than anything else. I have 3 full sets of obliterum gear to mix and match and give myself the best ability to properly test every combination of stats possible outside of artificial simulations. *IMPORTANT* Here is a link to my personal Warcraft Logs Page. Here you can look at where I rank compared to other rogues and determine if I preach what I speak. This way anyone and everyone can always keep tabs on me. Collection of Data/Other Guides: For Those who want more information or find my guide to be untrustworthy, I have provided other sources of information for you to use! Anyone who has more valid and current links to guides pls post them so I can make sure we can collect it all into one area. - - - (Great Little Post Detailing Outlaw Skill Breakdowns) (Guide to Finding Some awesome AP/MP Gear, shoutout to Akamaru) Table of Contents - Why I'm not covering Outlaw Anymore~ (Until Further Notice Anymore) - ASSASSIN - Spec Overview - Key Elements To Assassin - Talents - Stat Priorities and Talent Combinations - Relics - Trinkets - Opening Rotations for Each Sin Build - How to Properly Abuse Kingsbane and it's Damage - BoTA and how to try and stack it with Exsanguinate - Snapshotting With SoT And How to properly abuse it with the MP Talent (Not EP Viable) - How to Mythic+~ (NEW, Check it out! :D) - Conclusion and Raid Effectiveness for bosses - Final Notes Why I'm not covering Outlaw Anymore Until Further Notice~~: Much to my Chagrin I simply do not have the heart to play/test/theorycraft for Outlaw right now. I have fallen in love with Sin and plan on breaking down every aspect of Sub due to it's scaling potential. This has left me little time to keep up with Outlaw's very different Meta. Most of the info I had originally posted is both outdated and simply wrong. I don't want to mislead people with poor information as it would both hurt our player base and invalidate the rest of this guide which is all kept as up-to-date as possible. So on that note I will be removing the Outlaw portion until further notice, likely being a rebuff or rework of outlaw to the point that I feel it's either fun or a spec that's a strong contender with the other specs. Please note that I am not saying you Can't be a strong contender as Outlaw, there were plenty. It's just that IMO they have been gutted and are no longer the strongest spec or the spec to play in the future (which leaves little for me to work with). I'd love to see a buff on them as they were my first love coming into this xpac. Sin is now my favorite and that won't change even with a rework, but I'd still like to see All you Outlaws who got jerked around get recompensated somehow or buffed to the point of viability in *Key word* FUTURE Top level mythic progression~ Of course my opinion on the matter may be wrong and Outlaw may be viable still, but I personally have not been able to produce results and will not pretend like I know how to with their current state. So with that in mind, Sorry for anyone who had used this as reference before! On Another note I Am working very hard on Sub and hope to post a good guide on it to help those who are making that Transition to Sub from Outlaw!Neverrz781 1h
1h sub was dead i feel. already sub had weak since several nerf. but! Rogue Agility reduced by 10% in PvP. Stamina reduced by 5% in PvP. Developers' Notes: Rogues are intended to be strong, yet vulnerable to focused-fire. We feel they have too much survivability while dealing too much damage with both utility and survivability, so we're toning them down. (Assassination) System Shock duration reduced to 2 seconds (was 4 seconds). (Subtlety) Stamina reduced by 5% in PvP. (Assassination, Outlaw) Stamina reduced by 15% in PvP. lol sub was dead RIP i'll realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly miss Ghost Crawler idk. why do blizz sub rogue nerf.Theonê19 1h
2h So I should level my DH now, right Blizz? Buff master race DH plz nerf rogue further so I stop leveling my rogue artifact and instead push me to level my DH. Leveled outlaw artifact to 19 (Outlaw Nerfed to the ground) So I leveled Assassination weapon to 19 and they just patched a further agility nerf This crap has to end sometime, right?Farrah2 2h
2h RIP to the rogues who havent got TF skin No more gliders mean no more NL farms. If you havent got the NL bindings you will probably never get it. RIPShanksinatra13 2h
2h Tricks of Our Trade: Waldo Detected ... My first capping of the thread! ... There are some places in suramar that you can fly while dead, presumably because you can't run back there to your body very easily. I don't know why they didn't implement this everywhere else though (Highmountain, I'm looking at you!). So I just got a new skin for thunderfury, and I wasn't originally looking forward to it, but I really like it now. 2h
2h Rogue PvP Nerf discussion. Assass Rip? (Subtlety) Stamina reduced by 10%, Agility reduced by 15%. (Assassination) Agility reduced by 30%. (Outlaw) Agility reduced by 10 %. What do you think of these changes? RiP Assassination? Hows the damage of it after the nerfs? Lets discuss.Sonics117 2h
2h So outlaw '10% buffs' in 7.1 .. Outlaw ​Saber Slash damage increased by 10%. Pistol Shot damage increased by 10%. Ghostly Strike damage increased by 10%. Blunderbuss damage increased by 10%. Does this even do much? Noob question of the day.Surelock68 2h
2h why am i a rogue every time blizz hotfixes, nerf. everytime they patch, nerf. Can we please have a class change option, i will pay money to switch to Monk. what is the point of this if every week everything we work for is just nerfed to the floor. Blizz, hire some testers for your stuff, you stink. Sincerely, A pissed rogue.Wasabì1 2h
3h What to do in PvP moving forward As is Assassination is truly dead this time. We're only wanted for 30% healing debuff, but with Rets stronger than ever it's not worth having a Sin Rogue on your team. There is is simply no reason to play one over a Warrior / Windwalker. Outlaw is probably the most nerfed spec in the game post legion launch. Various PvP Template , artifact trait , and honor talent nerfs. Sub appears to have had some of its prior agility nerfs reverted. As it is on live Sub has 2k more agi than the other two specs. This is the only spec that I currently see having a hope of being viable, but I'm curious what other people think.Spoobypls0 3h
3h October 25th Hotfixes... -Agility reduced by 10% in PvP. -Stamina reduced by 5% in PvP. Developers' Notes: Rogues are intended to be strong, yet vulnerable to focused-fire. We feel they have too much survivability while dealing too much damage with both utility and survivability, so we're toning them down. -(Assassination) System Shock duration reduced to 2 seconds (was 4 seconds). -(Subtlety) Stamina reduced by 5% in PvP. -(Assassination, Outlaw) Stamina reduced by 15% in PvP. Okay I get Assassination getting a damage nerf, but really? Across the board? Outlaw and especially not Sub have been doing near the damage that Assassination has been doing. Why would you even feel they need nerfs to damage?Kyrillos27 3h
3h Bloodstained Handkerchief. So I have my doubts but, the damage on this trinket is classified as a bleed, does it proc venomous wounds? can hemo increase it's damage? Can someone with the trinket please test. Moroes is an assassination rogue after all, maybe he's looking out for the team :D Confirmation would be nice before I blow a bonus roll trying to get it! Thanks. 3h
3h Blizzard, let's talk about the Bindings Countless Rogues, either Outlaw or not, have been seeking these items since they first saw them. A throwback Artifact skin to the OG Legendary. How awesome! With the recent changes to Gliders in dungeons, I think it's time to adjust the drop rate of the Bindings. When we first started farming, it was bearable. Vault was super quick with the ability to fall through the map. NL was semi-quick gliding through to the river and stealthing through the dungeon. With the insanely low drop rate of these items, I believe nothing should have ever changed. But things did. Changes were made to the dungeons that extensively extended the duration of these runs. Personally, I've ran these dungeons almost 200 times with no luck. I've been with other Rogues with over 400 runs. Here's my main point: These items should have their drop rate increased for one reason only: this Thunderfury skin is only usable during this expansion. Blizzard has already confirmed that we will NOT be using our Artifact weapons in future expansions. With the current routes and drop rates, very, very few people will be able to use this wonderful Artifact appearance. And I think that's a shame.Samberg9 3h
4h Cold Blood Stealth Nerf? Something I noticed today was that Cold Blood appears to have taken a nerf. It's tooltip typically indicated that it did ~12% of the target's maximum health as Shadow (It's damage went up/down with Buffs such as MoS or SoD). The tooltip now says 10%, and it doesn't appear to change with buffs like it used to. I checked recount to check the damage and it also appears to be lower than normal.Exìtus1 4h
5h rogue vanish/combo point bug happened to me several times tonight, also with my guilde rogues if you vanish when you have cps sometimes the cps will be reset to 0 is this just a bug? if so pls fix it asap since vanish--> 6cp rupture is the core rotation for sin rogues i have sent bug report, send report too rogue fellows if you also got it so they can fix it asap hope this is not the price we have to paid for the 1 extra kingsbane cp buff :/Violetear1 5h
5h can sub rogue go back to its old design? PLEASE UPVOTE if you would rather have sub go back to its old design than what it is now. shadow dance doesnt feel the same anymore, it used to be used for burst/control and have to use it in situations where it doesnt go to waste or get stopped, now there is no stop to it. there is no burst to this spec anymore. just teleporting around. if anything sub has less control than it did before. the fantasy of this spec is completely dead. sorry if i sound whiny i just would like to main sub rogue still but atm im just gonna stick with frost mage. would love to see big changes to this spec in 7.1 so that i have some motivation to level my rogue and actually have fun with it again.Heyhowareyou125 5h
5h Does anyone like Legion Rogue in PvP? Curious if there are any that actually like how this class plays in PvP now. Which spec are you playing and what do enjoy about the playstyle? What PvP content are you playing? (WPvP, duels, unrated BGs, rated BGs, unrated skirmishes, rated arenas)Ghostshoes35 5h
5h Stealth Nerf Rogues 7.1 Night Elf Rogues can no longer activate stealth immediately after activating Shadowmeld - their racial talent. Cannot find this listed in the notes anywhere. Text book stealth nerf (no pun intended). ZERO REASON to be a NE ever.Dusk14 5h
5h First time playing rogue (video) Hey guys my friend wanted me to play with her in some low lvl pvp , in some skrims made a short little badly edited video I put on my man's youtube for you guys to watch us do our thing, tell me what I am doing wrong , or if you liked it in any way. Yes I love playing around with Tmorph and love Logic and j cole get over it :D 5h
7h How does MA Trait interact with AP? How does Kingslayer's Master Alchemist Trait (increase AP by 4% in my case) interact with Agonizing Poison? When I mouses over the AP buff, it shows 7.7% buff per stack. Is this number already included the Master Alchemist effect? If it is not he case, will 5 stacks of AP increase damage by 38.5% + 4% form Master of Alchemist? Also I feel like stack mastery increase AP per stack by just a little (my mastery is around 105%). Is it worth to stack it just for AP? Or it would be more wise to stack Crit instead of mastery.Daora0 7h
7h Average "proc rate" of Bag of Tricks Does anyone have any kind of data on its percentage of proc, or something like that?Omgbak21 7h
7h Mask of Artful Dodging? any rogues out there find out how to obtain this? would love to mog it 7h
7h Quality of Life changes please Hi all I can see that there are a lot of frustrated Rogue mains out there. I feel you, believe me. We can all agree that the Rogue really needs some fine tuning. However, before we really get into that, I just wanted to point out some QoL things that I feel really need to be addressed. These aren't necessarily buffs, but rather things that may make our gaming experience a little better. Just keep in mind I main Subtlety and alt Outlaw so the suggested changes will mainly revolve around those. All specs: - Stealth still has a tendency of just falling off at random occasions. - Vanish will not drop the aggro of pets until the actual "stealth" kicks in 3 seconds later. Subtlety: - Akaari's Soul has been bugged since conception. It's more consistent now, but it WILL break CC. This problem has been present since beta and it hasn't been addressed. The tooltip also inaccurately shows that its damage is increased by Master of Subtlety and Symbols of Death when it actually doesn't. - Thief's Bargain doesn't actually do what it says it does. The 20% damage buff appears to ONLY work during Shadow Dance, NOT during stealth in general. I observed this several times in PvP when for some reason my damage did not go off during Subterfuge or upon exiting stealth. It only appeared to present itself in Damaging Ability tooltips and on enemies during Shadow Dance. - Flickering Shadows takes 4 seconds to go off, not 3 (you can even go test this). The tooltip still says 3 seconds. (I know this is a tiny thing but it misinforms players) Outlaw: - Greed/Blunderbuss/SS proc consistency. I understand that these abilities are SUPPOSED to be somewhat random, but there have been times where I have seen one of them 5+ times in a row, and other times you can use the ability 10+ times and it simply won't go off. Needless to say, this is incredibly frustrating to the player. My personal recommendation would be to design them in such a way where the proc chance goes up or down based on how often it does/doesn't go off (E.G. for every time Run Through doesn't proc Greed, the chance of it going off rises a bit. Conversely, every time it does go off, the chances of it happening again goes down). These may already be designed this way, but I personally don't think so because they are wildly inconsistent in my experience. - Slice and Dice vs Roll the Bones. I personally hate RNG with a burning passion, so I nigh always opt for Slice and Dice and work my build around that. However, I do know that other players really enjoy the concept of Roll the Bones, but even they have to admit fishing for rolls is beyond frustrating. However, Slice and Dice is still considered a worse option over Death Mark or DfA. I personally don't know what I would suggest to change this, but I know players have expressed their grief regarding this. I would go more into Assassination, but I honestly don't play it enough to have noticed anything regarding the quality of life of the spec. Maybe adding more reward for sticking to targets and adding survivability at the expense of DoT pressure? I honestly don't know. I'm hoping some people will give some input. I really would like to see other players' two-cents on this! EDIT: Spelling and grammar... It's late.Exìtus0 7h
7h Bloodthirsty Instinct Just curious why Bloodthirsty is bis for assassination rogues when haste is worst stat. pls explainJayto2 7h
7h Anyone Remember Ming? Or the old classic Rogues that used to post quality pvp videos on this forum? Do any of them still play?Nautkicker20 7h
8h pvp health points I have more HP outside of pvp now: 1920k outside and 1864k in pvp. anyone else notice their health is rather low? and with the 10% honor talent, I'm still under 2100k I was nearing last week. what gives? I'm not sub by the way.Austenna8 8h
8h Assassination Stat/Priority Caps As the title says what exactly are the rogue priority stats, and what are the caps that you aim to hit before switching to other stats. I once heard 40%Crit, Then Mastery, and Vers/Haste are kind of the fillers but is there a point with mastery you can swap some out for Haste/Vers?Kiosh4 8h
8h Roll the bones not showing before 7.1 when I used roll the bones I got an animation underneath my toon that showed the results and now its gone. How do I get that back?Perregy1 8h
8h Sub dmg buff plea Title of this topic explains the general core of what this thread is going to mainly be focused on. I know many would disagree with this topic some may agree but who knows I wouldn't mind getting a few thoughts about this thread.. Subtlety rogues at the moment is known for its CC, no questions about that... Though in my opinion, even with all those CC's it doesn't make up for the damage output it should produce. I know blizzard tried to make a unique role style for each specialization for Rogue Specializations i.e; Assassination Rogues:- High Sustain Damage and Burst output but really lack the Crowd Control. Subtlety Rogues:- Medium Sustain Damage output and High Crowd Control. Pretty much how Subtlety Rogues is like right now is just spamming Shadowstrike and eviscerate when you have enough combo points.. Shadowstrike does like 2.5-4% of a players HP (depending on crits), and Eviscerate hitting around 5-10% of a players hp (depending on crits)... that is why I reckon Subtlety's damage should be buffed by a satisfactory amount. 'probably an over exaggeration'; Compared to other DPS classes you're hitting like you're using a wet noodle as a weapon unlike Wind Walker Monks... They just tend to randomly one hit you in their rotational stun locks.. In both PvP/ PvE you don't really see Subtlety rogues up there in the ladders which is unfortunate... I would love to see a wide range of diverse composition with Subtlety, unlike the typical same Flavor of the Month Assassination in every Rogue composition you see at the moment. Pretty much all I ask for is a higher sustained damage :'( I know that the burst potential is there because of Shadow Blades (with its 3 minute).. \(^-^)/ comment and disagree or agree w/e give us your thoughtsReactionzlol23 8h
8h Respect for the Rogues! Well I ran my first raid on my Rogue - After playing SP-DK-BM for years . Man I got to tell you Rogue is by far the hardest toon I've ran a raid on - Damn energy is a killer - Still managed to be 2nd in DPS but damn that was some work.Hemroid7 8h
9h Q: what is the difference between Assassin PvP and Assassin PvE? A: PvP you occasionally press Kidney Shot instead of Envenom before you go back to mindlessly rolling your face on your PvE rotatationGhostshoes24 9h
9h BiS of these 3 relics? I play Mp/Ap and I have 3 relics all 870: Toxic blades (+3% envenom), Poison Knives (+1% to agonizing poison, +4% to Fan of Knives) and Serrated Edge (+3% rupture crit), which one is best? Please only post if you are a raiding rogue who is at least 7/7 heroic EN.Vapula3 9h
9h so the outlaw 10% "buff" i think the devs just wanna make fun of outlaw players, it's like when they were happily playing their mages they happened to see the @outlaw post, and they then said that "hey you guys want a buff now you get one, so stop crying i need to continue playing my mage" or they are just stupid however i dont think they are stupid since they have designed this video game which means their brains are not damaged so they might be making fun of outlaw players. what do you think rogues and gtfo mageVioletear23 9h
10h Just let us grab knockers at will. We should really be able to just walk up and grab their knockers without asking first. I mean, they're right there on display for everyone to see anyway. If they really didn't want us to they'd cover them up or something.Lailow2 10h