Jun 10 Rogue Leveling FAQ (6.x) Update: I know that this is out of date for the prepatch. I plan to have a new version ready before legion launches. This FAQ is for new rogues. It is full of simplifications and generalizations. The focus is on optimal leveling speed and viability. This is not how things will work for end game pve/pvp. Be sure to read though the notes, as I've tried to explain major exceptions and caveats. Bold/underline is direct question answer. But, as you will see, many choices can not be made in a vacuum. If any class is about experimentation and situational planning, the rogue class is and to fully understand the class, you will need to think this way as well. As always, I do my best to field questions in this thread as fast as possible. But don't be afraid to pop in a say hello, and ask a question on the floating community thread which is nearly always active. Just look for the "Tricks of Our Trade" thread and I guarantee that you will get a near immediate response from a knowledgeable and friendly rogue who will gladly take the time to help you. Or you can contact me on youtube, twitter or email. Ask me anything. Email: wavefunctionp on gmail Twitter: @wavefunctionp Youtube: Video Combat Video Guide: A basic explanation rogue mechanics and combat spec rotation. Assassination Video Guide: Down and dirty assassination gameplay guide. Twitch: Watch some unscripted gameplay of from past streams. Feel to free to laugh at me. :P I announce a live stream on twitter. (Usually late night into the morning).Aeriwen385 Jun 10
Aug 12 Roguedom: Common Rogue Q's & A's (Last updated Jan. 18, 2016.) Whether you're new to the class or a grizzled veteran, there's always more to learn about playing a rogue. In this thread, I’ll do my best to answer commonly asked questions on a wide range of topics relevant to every level and breed of rogue. At present I'm keeping this thread to PvE questions only; I'll fill in PvP gaps in the future. If you've got any suggestions, Q's you'd like to see A'd, corrections or general death threats, feel free to post in this thread, flip me the bird at @SvelteKumquat or email me at I look forward to completely ignoring your messages. :)Rfeann219 Aug 12
1d Ganker's Kit of Ganking 2.0 Rogues may be the most feared and / or hated class out in the world. They are built for ambushing the unsuspecting, and can easily punish a target relentlessly. Here are a few utilities you ensure your quarry doesn't flee prior to satisfying your sadistic tendencies. Don't get caught unprepared!* *Originally written by Io (, but I was unable to locate the thread so this is reconstructed from Google, memory and suggestions. I'll do my best to keep it updated. ... Blackened Worg Steak Track Humanoids, self explanatory. Elixir of Camouflage Prevents anyone from tracking you on their mini-map, including Druids, Hunters and Worg Steak users. Tracker Snacks For Druids in Cat form, etc. Rogue's Draught (Pickpocketing) Healing potion exclusive to Rogues. +Stealth Effectiveness Sneaking Potion or Stealth of the Stalker (Quest) and Various items with +Stealth attributes: +Stealth Detection Catseye Elixir (+1) or Elixir of the Searching Eye (+2) or Distilled Stalker Sight (+3, Quest) Use to find another Rogue or Druid. +Invisibility / Detection Elixir of Detect Lesser Invisibility and / or Invisibility Potion or Invisibility Field ( Use to see invisible Mages; the latter two actually bump you into the same realm. +Anti-CC Living Action Potion 3 sec. immunity to slows, snares & stuns; usable while stunned. Extra trinket. or Free Action Potion 10 sec. immunity to slows, snares & stuns; not usable while stunned. +Ranged CC / Interrupt Embersilk Net (Tailoring) or Big Daddy (Engineering) or High-Powered Bolt Gun (Engineering) or Gnomish Poultryizer (Engineering) or Discombobulator Ray (Engineering) or Arcane Bomb (Engineering) Frost Grenade (Engineering) Gnomish Net-o-Matic Projector (Engineering) The final three reportedly do not share a cooldown with the others. There are also many options for pure ranged damage, such as Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket (Cataclysm version is "Tazik Shocker" +Decoys Cardboard Assassin ( Can take a pet off of you; especially useful with Vanish. or Explosive Decoy (Engineering) Explosive Sheep (Engineering) Self explanatory. Great fun in lowbie towns. +Diversions Fetch Ball Send your favorite pet running to possibly divert attention from your location. Breaks stealth. or Blue Smoke Flare Green Smoke Flare Purple Smoke Flare Red Smoke Flare White Smoke Flare Can be thrown from stealth! or Rogues Deck (Quest) Archmage Vargoth's Staff (Quest) Highborne Soul Mirror (Archaeology) These will summon a semi-transparent stationary unit that may distract your opponent. Useful with a Vanish or to divert attention while already stealthed. The mirror creates a replica of your character, but it will face your direction, possibly giving away your location. Critter Bites Lure your opponents into a false sense of safety. Amass a critter army, stealth, profit.Tantojutsu249 1d
1d Shadow Dance and the Stealth Bar We’ve been reading all of the feedback throughout beta regarding Shadow Dance and the desire to have it use the “Stealth action bar.” To get right to the point, after an upcoming hotfix, Subtlety Rogues will find that Shadow Dance swaps their main action bar to the alternate bar that is used while in Stealth. For a bit of context on the late change to our thinking on this: we rarely allow automatic functionality (such as action bar swaps, or macros) to choose between core damage abilities on the player’s behalf. We believe it’s important that the player has to make those choices themselves. The Rogue Stealth bar has always been a minor exception to this, but for many years, the Stealth bar was only active for the single ability you used to open a combat, and was not seen again for the duration of combat (other than with Vanish). The ability to bind your openers to the same buttons as your rotational abilities was a convenience that didn’t affect your use of abilities in combat. However, the new Shadow Dance (and to a lesser extent Subterfuge), has resulted in some Rogues regularly using openers during combat, as elements of their rotation. In this case, the Stealth bar changes from a minor convenience that lets you place once-per-combat buttons on more convenient keybinds, to actually making regular, mid-combat decisions for you. That said, after following the ongoing discussions and carefully considering your feedback, we understand the desire for consistency with other abilities that allow Stealth-only actions. Given the gray area that Shadow Dance is in, and the widespread feedback that using the Stealth bar would be more consistent and intuitive, we’ve decided to go ahead and allow Shadow Dance to once again swap your main action bar. This hotfix is scheduled to live with weekly restarts in each region. A few details for players who use macros to further manage their buttons: Shadow Dance will be treated similarly to Subterfuge for the purposes of macro conditionals. It will not activate [stealth], but it will activate [stance:2]. If you want to make a macro that mimics the behavior of the main bar (i.e. swapping when you have any of Stealth, Vanish, Subterfuge, or Shadow Dance), you can use the macro conditional [bonusbar:1].Ornyx120 1d
Aug 15 6.0.3 Mutilate PvP How-To: Cold Blood... ... Ladies and gentleman, I'm going to be brief. And by "brief" I mean I'm going to update this stupidly-structured, gargantuan and entirely NOT brief post of mine. Patch 6.0.3 is here, and that means I need to get back to work. I think it's time we hacked out some of the brain-dead introductory material to streamline this steamy pile a bit. Here we go. ------------------------------------------------ 6.0.3 ASSASSINATION CHANGES IN THEIR ENTIRETY ------------------------------------------------ Lovingly stolen from Jokaste's PvE guide: Go read it. ... ------------------------------------------------ SPEC-SPECIFIC PERKS ------------------------------------------------ Improved Slice and Dice -- Slice and Dice is now always passively active. Enhanced Vendetta -- After activating Vendetta, your next Mutilate, Dispatch, Envenom, or Ambush has 100% increased chance to be a critical strike. Enhanced Crimson Tempest -- Crimson Tempest also increases the damage targets take from your poisons by 30% for 1 sec plus 1 sec per combo point. Empowered Envenom -- While Envenom is active, you deal 20% more damage with Mutilate and Dispatch. ------------------------------------------------ TALENTS ------------------------------------------------ There will be differences in opinion here. Keep calm. Breathe. This is a guide, not a bill on the Senate floor. Use whatever arrangement makes you happy. I'm only suggesting what has worked for me. ... ... Nightstalker -- Increases your movement speed while stealthed by 20%, and the damage your abilities deal while stealthed by 50%. The only time I would consider this talent is MAYBE for carrier-killing in Kotmogu, and that's still a stretch. Great for transmog runs in dungeons/raids? Subterfuge -- Your abilities requiring Stealth can still be used for 3 sec after Stealth breaks. Nerfed in 6.0.2 to no longer keep you hidden. Not really a deal-breaker though. Incredible CC potential (see "Openers" section), but since we don't like to use Ambush it no longer has much going for it in our eyes. Shadow Focus -- Abilities cost 75% less Energy while you are stealthed. Another good choice, and a recommendation for the casual PvPer that enjoys random BGs. Paired with Anticipation, it makes for very high burst potential without starving you of energy or forcing wasted combo points. With the advent of Subterfuge's change, this talent shines even brighter. ... Deadly Throw -- Finishing move that reduces the movement speed of the target by 50% for 6 sec. If performed with 3 combo points, also interrupts spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for a period of time. Good when you're up against ranged opponents. Essentially lack-luster in any other situation. You will almost never find yourself timing the throw correctly to interrupt/silence anyone. Main use is a ranged snare. Nerve Strike -- Causes a successful Kidney Shot or Cheap Shot to reduce the damage dealt by the target by 25% and healing done by the target by 10% for 6 sec after the effect fades. Sounds good on paper, performs well in practice. The choice between this and the next talent really comes down to whether or not you're selfish. Would you rather peel for your healer, or save yourself? Combat Readiness -- Enter into a state of heightened awareness, deflecting enemy weapon strikes with increasing effectiveness. Successive attacks will deal 10% less damage per application, stacking 5 times. Lasts for 20 sec, but if 10 sec elapse without any incoming weapon strikes, this state will end. An "Oh !@#$" button if I've ever seen one. If staying alive means your arena team wins then it's absolutely worth it. Only works against melee, so obviously not recommended against ranged players. ... Cheat Death -- An attack that would otherwise be fatal will instead reduce you to no less than 10% of your maximum health, and damage taken will be reduced by 85% for 3 sec. This effect cannot occur more than once per 90 seconds. In situations where 3+ potential targets can wail on you (5s, RBGs), this is not the talent to use. Formidable in 2s, even 3s; situations where you won't be slammed by the GCD of the next schmuck in line with you in his sights. Can really save the day when the stars align, and if you're willing to ride that train all the way home, go for it. Also works great on Hexos in the Brawler's Guild; gives you an extra shot at killing him if you screw up, so hey...knock yourself out. Leeching Poison -- Coats your weapons with a Non-Lethal Poison that lasts for 1 hour. Your melee attacks have a 50% chance to poison the target for 10 sec. Your subsequent weapon strikes against the poisoned target will heal you for 10% of damage dealt. Hilariously terrible. All your damage is from poisons, not weapon strikes. Of all 3 specs, Assassination makes the least weapon strikes against a target. You are hurting yourself with this talent. Move along. Elusiveness -- Your Feint ability also reduces all damage taken by 30% for 5 sec. Elusiveness' 30% mitigation, and 100% up time when you need it are tough to beat. You can stack it with other damage reduction abilities (smoke bomb and/or glyphed cloak) to buy yourself time for a heal if situations are dire. ... Cloak and Dagger --Your Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot abilities can now be used from 40 yards away, and will cause you to appear behind your target. I still can hardly fathom why someone would want this talent. It serves some purpose when paired with Subterfuge for a multi-target Cheap Shot, but that's about it. I'm not going to hide behind a pillar forever or use Vanish just so I can port 40 yards. No thanks. Shadowstep -- Step through the shadows and appear behind a target. Movement speed is increased by 70% for 2 sec afterwards. A very strong talent considering the present choices. Great for reaching players on ledges above you, and saving your skin in BGs like Eye of the Storm (I'm looking at you, Shaman). This is the talent you run when it comes to interrupts or stuns that need to happen RIGHT-%$(@ING-NOW. You got ground to cover, do it instantly. Burst of Speed -- Increases movement speed by 70% for 4 sec and removes any movement-slowing effects. Does not break stealth. Great choice here. Doesn't exactly carry Shadowstep's surprise factor, but you're going to be hell to kite or catch. Works hilariously well with Shadow Focus (costs 7.5 energy in stealth; spam it). No longer stacks with Nitro Boosts (/cry), and is back up to a 30-energy cost. Time to start being mindful of how often you mash this button out of stealth, people. ... Prey On The Weak -- When you disable an enemy with Kidney Shot, Cheap Shot, Gouge, Sap, or Blind, they suffer 10% increased damage from all sources for the duration of the effect. It's useful all right, but man is it boring. I am not a personal fan, HOWEVER, I also don't find myself in 3s or 5s very often, where this talent really shines...and lordy does it shine bright. That's 10% from all sources. Everyone. Sic 3-5 people on your stunned target and they're going to cry. In 2s though, I find it far more useful to opt for a control talent, I'm just not convinced you're going get the maximum benefit from that 10% bonus unless you're running a 2s team whose sole purpose is simply to pop all their cooldowns, slap things and hope for the best. Internal Bleeding -- Your Kidney Shot also causes the target to bleed for (124.2% of Attack power) damage per combo point over 12 sec. Paralytic Poison's replacement, and not a bad one at all. The bleed can be pretty wicked. Useful in twos; useful with a healer; useful in any situation where you don't have a bunch of helping hands to smack people when they're stunned. For instances when you DO have said help, Prey on the Weak is still probably your poison for 10% damage from all sources. Also has a bad habit of not applying when the target is immune to stuns. Watch out for that. Dirty Tricks -- Your Gouge and Blind no longer have an Energy cost, and no longer break from damage dealt by your Poison and Bleed effects. True, this talent is definitely not the talent of choice if you're doing 3s or 5s. There are far too many sources of damage that can ruin your CC. But it's solid in 2s despite what you've been told, especially if you're running with a healer. Gouge becomes a free interrupt at worst, and a solid free 4-second CC at best. It's your new best friend. Gouge everything. Keep your Glyph of Blind if you see fit, just remember you'll have to get your peanut butter all up in your target's chocolate to gouge them without Glyph of Gouge (ie. face-to-face). You will also lose the ability to Blind -> Stealth -> Sap your target, as better explained in the glyph section. This tier is situational and depends on a lot of factors, not the least of which being your personal play style. I can't make a strong recommendation here. It's better you find your own preference, or use what the situation calls for. ... Shuriken Toss -- A ranged attack that deals 2493 (+ 60% of Attack power) Physical damage to an enemy target. If the enemy is farther than 10 yards away, your autoattacks will be replaced with ranged shuriken for up to 10 sec, granting them a 30 yd range. Shurikens are coated in your Lethal Poison. Awards 1 combo point. Replaces Throw. It has some merit against ranged teams, but we've got other means of catching them. There are better alternatives in this tier. Marked for Death -- Mark the target, instantly generating 5 combo points on them. If the target dies within 1 min Marked for Death's cooldown is reset. Works pretty well with Combat and Subtlety because they can use it for back-to-back Eviscerates among other things. Back-to-back Envenoms don't translate quite as well for Assassination rogues. You'll end up clipping the initial Envenom's 30% poison application buff. We don't necessarily like that. It's good for 5 free combo points if your target is about to die. Can also be used for instant 5-point Kidney Shots or Ruptures. Very useful utility when you need that special something right this very second, and you don't have the energy to make it happen otherwise. An obvious life-saver in stressful situations. With the advent of our 4-piece bonus in 6.0.3, Marked For Death's use, while still undoubtedly amazing, is diminished slightly. Take that for what you will. Anticipation -- When one of your attacks generates a combo point on a target that already has 5 combo points, you gain an Anticipation charge, up to a maximum of 5. When you perform an offensive finishing move on an enemy, any Anticipation charges are consumed to grant you an equal number of combo points on that target. Solves a pretty major quality of life issue with the Assassination spec: 4-point finishers. Without this talent you will CONSTANTLY find yourself debating whether to use a finisher at 4 combo points, or risk wasting combo point procs in order to get 5. Problem solved with Anticipation. For the assassination rogue that likes to "GO HAM!" and keep things simple. ... Venom Rush -- Increases your maximum energy by 15. Increases your energy regeneration rate by 5% for every enemy you have poisoned, up to 3. A marvelously simple talent. A good way to get that 150 energy feel back, considering we lost our 30 energy set bonus from the previous season. One cheap FoK in a group of players should land you a solid regen buff and a high chance at a crit proc for an additional CP. Shadow Reflection -- Summon a shadow of yourself on the target that will watch you and memorize your offensive ability usage for the next 8 sec. After this time, it will mimic the memorized abilities on its target over the next 8 sec. I'll admit, I haven't tested this one in great detail. Been having far too much fun with Venom Zest. Granted in PvP it can have a solid impact on control, I'm going to defer to Jokaste's appraisal on this one: ... Death From Above -- Finishing move that consumes combo points on the target to empower your weapons with shadow energy and perform a devastating two-part attack. You whirl around, dealing up to (133.3% of Attack power) damage to all enemies within 8 yds, then leap into the air and Eviscerate your target on the way back down, with such force that it deals an additional 50% damage. Is that not the f*cking coolest-sounding and coolest-LOOKING talent ever? This was the first talent I chose when I dinged 100. It's also the first talent I spec'd out of 15 minutes later. As an Assassination rogue, your CP-builders are expensive. You've lost the 30 energy bonus from the last season. If you're not using glyph of energy you're sitting at 120 energy. This talent costs 50 energy. To me, it just doesn't seem to have the oomph it needs for the cost it demands. If I can manage to use it when I need it, I'm usually energy starved afterwards and I've gimped an Envenom buff. Compounding this issue is the fact that DFA can be nullified. You can be pulled by a DK mid-air, or shadowstepped or wild charged or what-have-you. Ultimately this means you've spent 50 energy for nothing. I've had much better results with it in Subtlety, though. ------------------------------------------------ GLYPHS ------------------------------------------------ 6.0.3 brought us a lot of new glyphs. Let's take a look. Glyph of Energy -- I'm running this one. With Venom Rush you got yourself 155 energy. I'm in the business of dumping my energy, and Glyph of Disappearance -- Also running this. Works wonders with our new 4-piece bonus. Just remember to bind/activate stealth afterwards. Can be a bit buggy in that if you Vanish while in a large group of people AoEing or what-have-you, it won't allow you to activate stealth manually and you'll pop back out a few seconds later. Better be prepared to run. Glyph of Elusiveness -- Misleading name. I haven't yet been able to justify a major glyph for 30 seconds off a 2-minute cooldown that I can reset with Prep if I really need to. Glyph of Energy Flows -- Haven't tested this one. Sounds hilarious when used against the right people though. Doubt that laugh every 2 minutes is worth the major slot. Now, for the oldies-n'-goodies. Glyph of Blind -- Pretty much your main-stay. You don't want it breaking when you need it most. Thumbs up, but it does have an unintended side-effect. Dirty Tricks users will not be able to Blind -> Stealth -> Sap as their DoTs are not removed via this glyph, and will break the Sap. Fair warning. Glyph of Recovery -- Everyone loves 20% more heals, but is it worth a major slot? My playstyle has me using Recuperate in short spurts though, so I personally haven't justified it yet. If you love using Recup, you love this glyph. That's the short of it. Will definitely see a lot more action in arenas where you can be the center of attention. Worth a recommendation for sure.. Glyph of Gouge -- Amazing with Dirty Tricks. Enjoy your free gouge without positional requirements. Casters will loathe you. High-five, bro! Glyph of Feint -- Pretty straight-forward. Maximize your up-time with Feint for that sexy 30% damage reduction through Elusiveness. If you're using this glyph for any other purpose you're just silly. Glyph of Cloak of Shadows -- I'm not much a fan of dying, so I like this glyph. Tell both casters and melee to shove off. All with one button! Glyph of Garrote -- I don't personally use it. If you take the Subterfuge talent, Garrote ends at just the right time for a Cheap Shot before the talent wears off so I find little use for it. Others are absolute diehards over this glyph though, and I can't say they're wrong so it still gets a recommendation. ------------------------------------------------ REFORGE STAT PRIORITY ------------------------------------------------ ... Hit and Expertise are gone; BREAK OUT THE GOOD WINE! Mastery is still your bread-and-butter. Crit will always have value through Seal Fate. Multistrike has a reduced (1) chance to proc in PvP as opposed to PvE (2), so it gets knocked down a peg. I'm unsure if multistrike procs can also proc Venemous Wounds, so until I do I'mma leave it pretty much equal to Versatility for now. Anyone got some insight in that regard? Holler at me. Scream like only the forums can. ------------------------------------------------ GEMS ------------------------------------------------ Everyone gets their knickers in a twist over this, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. With resilience gone, and the fact that socket colors seem to be irrelevant, maybe this'll be less of an assault on everyone's sensibilities. For rich !@#$%es: Greater Mastery Taladite or Greater Critical Strike Taladite For poor peons: Mastery Taladite or Critical Strike Taladite Good lord are those blue gems going to be expensive. Especially at the start of the season. Buyers beware. I took a look at Noxxic (my eyes!) to see what they're babbling about over there. I don't know what I expected, honestly. I just...I don't understand why they're listing the mastery gem so low in value. With the return of Cold Blood, you'd think the crit gem wouldn't be as high as it is either. Then again I've never understood why Noxxic recommends what it does. I want what they're smoking half the time. Get back to me on this with your own personal experiences. This guide is always subject to change. ------------------------------------------------ ENCHANTS ------------------------------------------------ ... Neck -- Enchant Neck - Gift of Critical Strike or Enchant Neck - Gift of Mastery Cloak -- Enchant Cloak - Gift of Critical Strike or Enchant Cloak - Gift of Mastery Rings -- Enchant Ring - Gift of Mastery Weapon -- Enchant Weapon - Mark of Bleeding Hollow ... Neck -- Enchant Neck - Breath of Critical Strike or Enchant Neck - Breath of Mastery Cloak -- Enchant Cloak - Breath of Critical Strike or Enchant Cloak - Breath of Mastery Rings -- Enchant Ring - Breath of Mastery Weapon -- Enchant Weapon - Mark of the Shattered Hand ------------------------------------------------ OPTIONAL ITEM(S) ------------------------------------------------ Greater Draenic Agility Flask or Draenic Agility Flask -- Really shines in WPvP and random BGs. Obviously not allowed in arenas. Draenic Agility Potion -- No arenas either, but a great addition to your cooldown macro(s). STOCKPILE THIS ITEM, SERIOUSLY. You will burn through these almost as fast as I change channels when an ASPCA commercial comes on. Draenic Invisibility Potion & Draenic Swiftness Potion -- If you gotta get away, you gotta get away. Sinister Spores & Super Sticky Glitter Bomb -- Earned mainly through the Gladiator Sanctum, these are hilarious. Both are wonderful in WPvP, but sinister spores can't be used in any instanced play. Glitter bombs, to my knowledge, can't be dispelled through Cloak of Shadows, so start slappin' 'em on every yellow health bar you see! Any of the engineering devices -- The shield shares a cooldown with healthstones, but has saved my #$% countless times already. The rockets hit like a freakin' TRUCK (50-77K crits, not in Kotmogu), and the gliders are useful to anyone that doesn't have the cloak tinker. Stealthman 54 can't be used in combat, so that sucks. ------------------------------------------------ (DE)BUFFS TO MAINTAIN ------------------------------------------------ Rupture -- Rupture provides has a chance to proc something called Venemous Wounds every time it ticks. Each tick has a 100% chance to deal nature damage & give you 10 energy.Sadly it used to work with Garrote as well back when the proc chance was 75%. It was a trade-off I guess. You should have at least 1 Rupture on somebody, somewhere. The more people you have bleeding, the more energy you'll get. Elusiveness -- 30% damage reduction. 100% up time if you're carrying the flag/orb, or when you're being tunneled. All other times, you can save the energy for something else. Glyph of Feint can help with this. Recuperate -- Restores 4% of your health every 3 seconds (5% if glyphed). While you can argue it's not the greatest or fastest heal in the world, you can't really turn your nose up at it either. Use it when flag carrying or being tunneled along with Elusiveness, or whenever an encounter is going sour. ------------------------------------------------ COOLDOWN(S) ------------------------------------------------ Vendetta -- A wonderful 30% damage boost. With Shadow Blades removed, this is all we got, folks. Be aware this is not considered a buff for you. Rather, IT'S A DEBUFF PLACED ON THE TARGET, IT CAN BE REMOVED. Vanish no longer seems to be able to do that though. Hoorah! Bubble & Ice Block will still remove it. Boo. Make sure to be at 5 CPs and pool your energy before using. Use the Cold Blood buff on Envenom, then spam Mutilate/Dispatch during the 20% envenom buff. ------------------------------------------------ TRINKETS ------------------------------------------------ As far as DPS trinkets are concerned, you have a few options. Primal Gladiator's Insignia of Conquest -- An absolutely marvelous proc. A full 213 agility more than the on-use trinket. This would be my first choice. Primal Gladiator's Badge of Conquest -- No longer a huge fan of these types, but everyone has their preference. The question becomes: are you willing to accept the smaller agility bonus for the control of its use? Primal Gladiator's Badge of Adaptation -- This one's interesting. We sure do like mastery, and the versatility bonus is large enough to matter for a change. On-use though, and requires a rep grind. Sounds iffy to me. There's really only one option for your free-action trinket: Primal Gladiator's Medallion of Cruelty ------------------------------------------------ MACROS ------------------------------------------------ Now, I'm one of those super cool guys that uses a Naga mouse so I don't have many macros that aren't something simple like a rebound key: shift-1 or ctrl-5. I will tell you however, that I use Engineering for both the Nitro Boosts and Goblin Glider. If you're seriously considering going the PvP route, I suggest you do the same. The reason I say this in the macro section is that as of 5.3 the Goblin Glider will NOT FUNCTION WHILE THE NITRO BOOSTS ARE ACTIVE. Because of this, you'll have to make something along the lines of the following for your Glider if you plan to use the Nitro Boosts just beforehand: /cancelaura Nitro Boosts /use Goblin Glider With that out of the way, let's talk damage. We've got our one-and-only cooldown mentioned above: Vendetta. We've also discussed your trinket options. We need to make them work together. If you're the kinda player that likes to control your damage and you chose the badge trinket: /use <badge of conquest goes here> /use <whichever draenor agility potion you're using> /cast Vendetta If you did not take the badge trinket, just remove that line from the macro. Remember, VENDETTA IS A DEBUFF ON THE TARGET. You need to be targeting something for it to be used; it will not activate with everything else otherwise. How about a sap macro? #showtooltip Sap /cleartarget [nomod] /targetenemyplayer [nomod] /cast Sap This will target the nearest enemy player and sap them, duh. Because of the cleartarget line, do not target a player before hitting the macro. You'll deselect them and sap the player next to them. But the cool thing is if you hold down any modifier key (shift/control/alt) it will cast sap normally so you can still use it on mobs or players you want to hit specifically when targeted. ------------------------------------------------ OPENER(S) ------------------------------------------------ Your opener largely depends on the target. However, there is a cookie-cutter option if you are spec'd into Subterfuge. It's most effective on casters/healers. I use Mutilate instead of Ambush in stealth as it costs 5 less energy, has an additional chance to poison the target, and procs Blindside. Some consider this a gamble, and like to stay with Ambush. It comes down to personal preference. The possible benefits of Mutilate outweigh Ambush in my opinion. For most casters/healers I open with Garrote -> Mutilate -> Cheap Shot. Since I do not have Garrote glyphed, its silence effect only lasts 3 seconds (which is the length of subterfuge) and therefore lines up perfectly with my Cheap Shot. If the player does not break either the silence or the Cheap Shot, this opener makes for 8 straight seconds of lockout. It's very effective, but we're not done. At the end of this opener, you will have 5 combo points. Sit on them and do not use them right away. Just let your auto-attacks unload on the player while they're sitting in the Cheap Shot stun. If you proc'd Blindside in your opener, use it now. If you're spec'd into Dirty Tricks, as I suggested you be, Gouge them the second Cheap Shot fades for 4 extra seconds to build energy. Your DoTs will continue to damage them while you stand there. /emote at the player while they sit in Gouge. This step is ESSENTIAL but highly variable; which emote players use is subject to personal preference. I prefer /fart. When Gouge fades, use your 5 combo points on Kidney Shot. You'll have pooled a very nice amount of energy at this point. Pop your cooldowns and go to town. That's one dead player you got there. And if your aim isn't to kill...all said and done, this method tallies as follows: 3 seconds -- Garrote 4 seconds -- Cheap Shot 4 seconds -- Gouge 3 seconds -- Kidney Shot at 50% diminishing returns 14 seconds of lock-down. Highly recommended against healers. ------------------------------------------------ POISONS ------------------------------------------------ Lethal As you just begin to gear, you will make a bigger impact on an enemy's health using Wound Poison as your lethal. As you obtain gear and stack your mastery, however, Deadly Poison is going to be your bread and butter. I use it nearly exclusively, save for a particularly pesky healer. Non-Lethal With Paralytic Poison out the window, we've got one less thing to consider. We also no longer have our 2-piece bonus where Crippling Poison would always apply whether or not it was active. Leeching Poison -- We've discussed its uselessness before, so I swear I better not see any of you out on the field with it active. You'll hurt my feelings. Crippling Poison -- This is probably going to be your one-and-only. Without the 2-piece from previous seasons, we don't have much of a choice. Mind-Numbing Poison -- Finally has a use now that caster's aren't insta-casting everything, but if we use it the only thing we're gonna see is our target running off into the sunset because we had to give up Crippling Poison for it. It's up to you, folks. ------------------------------------------------ USEFUL WEAKAURAS STRING(S) ------------------------------------------------ The following is for WeakAuras users that wish to easily track their Vendetta/SB durations, and when to use Dispatch without having to stare at health bars. Simply copy this string and then import it into WeakAuras: d8drhaGAQq16LQOBJe7sQsTnK0(iHYmPc5Zk1SL4WICtQq58urFJk1PP0ojP9c7MQ2pjQFsLmmL04uKVtfmueIbtImCP0brGlrcXXuuNtkSqsXsffwmcYYr1dri9uvltQ8CjnrKstLIjtQMoXffLUQOOllCDuAJsrBvQcBwuTDsWhLQKVscPPPeZJeQgPuv9mez0Oy8iuNeb1TqkUgP09KQYJrQ(lI63kmMHbpbde8k(CVx6T7EpVItbxhxhgCESTdVXzBGV5d2w8G42Kxp0Hg8AuYjYW6fCnUmgxoMJY20GN01TID4tfYc3U3bVcdeCRoUdjU363vCplfd3U3bVc1z8YiPddoFucyWPWwelmqGabcoDyG6mm45dVCBpdO2nHtFugCyGAhuxHkj0CrB3Ch11P1osUB4UrhYPrBdi462ABj50eel4ksRYk1JSQ0M1yiaNhB7WBC2g4sqSG70vEEneOUGB1X7rwvAZAmeGlC7EhCyW5bf8v8HdEx(ItObN1BfCjX3HGZwJmckqdopO4Qn4jzWXvmCFIsuHbQZ49i86Hiji46bHyZZnoBd8(jidhRzMoccUdwDHbnD3n35UHw3lZKi1G6YeYPzrlE(Wl4zlkKjHvwPMdVG7zPy429o4vOoJZe2nJGMUNMM7AqLkvsAxinToHCAwMWlJKom4S1Gm9sQwHgC(OeWGtHTiwyGabNEjvRWGxT(DjWZWvVYmlei4jDDRyh(uHSWT7DWRWabcu7GbpF4LB7za1UjC6JYGddu7G6kujHMlA7M7OUoT2rYDd3n6qonABabx3wBljNMGybxrAvwP3pb06srvwjAjqLOzX5X2o8gNTbUeel4oDLNxdbQl4wD83pb06srvwjAjqLOzXfUDVdom48Gc(k(WbVlFXj0G7tuIkmqDg)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(koBniZePIWan4mrQimKhTbpjdoEF9H3gC6HxyIuryWxXzRb52Gtp8ctKkcdieEBWPhEHjsfHH8On4jzWX7RpC2AqM1BfObcei4c3U3bhg8HdEx(ItOb3NOevyG6mUMI1RxT6bei462QJZ6PlwfcObpNNOex4jjbvT4oy1fg0u7kvQAxOo1G6cj3DltiNMfT45dVGNTOqMewzLAo8cUNLIHB37GxHAhoty3mcA6EAAURbvQujPDH006eYPzzc3PR88AiqLMUv8YiPddoBnitVKQvObNpkbm4uylIfgiqWPxs1km4vRFxc8mC1RmZcbcUvhNwcFIqGHO9dbcUcqDEzDfca ------------------------------------------------ Well guys, those are my basics. It's not my intention to have this be the all-encompassing guide to Assassination PvP. I'm sure everyone has discrepancies. The intention is to reduce the amount of question threads. Deal? Now get out there and make their blood run cold.Toryk175 Aug 15
Jul 19 Jo's Compendium of Mutilating: Seeya in 7.0! DISCLAIMER: This guide is outdated currently! It will likely not be updated until a few weeks after Legion launches. Until then, I will be changing things over time, so don't be surprised if things don't make sense! The tell all guide to assist you in plunging two daggers into the heart of Archimonde! Learn how to maximize your defense! Be the envy of the other melee in the raid! Live through extreme damage! Pull more burst than ever before! Be the prize member of your raid team! (Warning: Do not attempt any of the practices in this guide unless you are an Assassination spec'd Rogue!) ~Changelog~ 10/16/14 - The Iron Tide crashes into Azeroth! Made my first pass at updating the guide for the new patch and decorated the hidden gumdrops with spikes of iron and bone. 10/18/14 - Herped my derp and missed some things with the 6.0.2 patch update, changed the stat section. Began the Great Changelog Purge to prevent having the changelog become half the guide. 10/22/14 - Found more missed parts of the guide, mostly wording to things that aren't around anymore like profession bonuses. Updated gem section and some talent descriptions. 11/10/14 - Updated rotation section to reflect the pandemic changes affecting Envenom. 11/14/14 - Started updating the guide for Warlords of Draenor. 11/17/14 NEW N' TASTY! Finished updating to level 100 Warlords. Combined enchant and gem section, eliminated some outdated wording, added new glyph recommendations, added new talent tier, reworked stat priorities, changed rotation guidelines and covered everything in a delicious Lemon Zest. Removed Herobrine. 11/19/14 - Made some changes to the 100 talent tier section. and expanded on the rotation section to accommodate for Shadow Reflection. 11/21/14 - Changed the enchant recommendations, elaborated more on multi-target section. Released the Molten Corgis. 12/02/14 - Expanded on the rotation section. 01/06/15 - It's a new year! Finally got off my lazy butt and updated example fights for talent descriptions. Also updated the enchantment section. 01/17/15 - Added a paragraph on Vanish and Premeditation into the rotation section, expanded on Vendetta section. Changed some syntax and grammar choices. Removed all parasprites and sent them back to the Everfree Forest. 02/02/15 - BRF OR BUST! Began updating the guide for Blackrock Foundry. Lamented that 'Blackrock n' Roll' doesn't fit as the new tag line. 02/19/15 - Stopped being lazy and updated enchant section to reflect Shattered Hand losing value. 02/25/15 - Updated Leeching Poison for the new changes in 6.1. Removed Herobrine. Or added. I forget at this point. 03/02/15 - Updated the foreword section with another communication option. 06/29/15 - Patch time! Started updating the guide for 6.2: Fury of Hellfire. 09/3/15 - I'm still alive! Finished updates for 6.2... Almost three months after the patch came out. Changed references to Premeditation to Preparation. 04/27/16 - Since there's very likely to be no update until Legion, I had some fun with the title. Compendium of Mutilating 1. Your Initiation - Foreword (J1): 2. Your Tools - Common Terms, Abilities and Abbreviations (J2): 3. Your Build - Talents and Glyphs (J3): 4. Your Gear - Stats, Enchanting and Gemming (J4): 5. Your Cunning - Common Tips, Tricks and Strategems (J5): 6. Your Victory - Afterword (J6): ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your Initiation - Foreword (J1) The first spec on your left, Assassination has classically been a bit of an oddball spec. Originally following the same path as the Arcane spec for Mages, in the early days of the old talent point system, most Rogues only ventured into the tree for Seal Fate, a talent that gave extra combo points on critical combo point generating moves like Backstab and Sinister Strike, or for Cold Blood, a now deprecated talent that used to ensure a critical strike on your next ability. As it went through expansions it slowly began to gain traction until Cataclysm, when Assassination was able to hold it's own against the other two specs. Now, Assassination is as competitive, if not more so, than Combat and Sub. The rotation is simple and requires less management than the other two specs and pulls exceptional numbers. Assassination has come a long way from it's origins. This compendium will help you identify common Rogue terms, maximize your gear, talents and glyphs, and perfect your strategy in raid encounters during patch 6.0.3: Warlords of Draenor. Most of the advice in this guide will focus on preparing you for Blackrock Foundry (Which releases on February 2nd.) but should apply just as well to previous raid tiers and other content. If you have any questions or suggestions, please, feel free to leave them in a reply to this thread! I'll get back to you as soon as possible. I also have a Twitter! Just send a tweet to @JoTheRogue to chat! ... Your Tools - Common Terms, Abilities and Abbreviations (J2) Common Terms AP - Attack Power Crit - Critical Strike Rating Mastery - Mastery Rating Multi - Multistrike Rating Vers - Versatility Haste - Haste Rating CD - Cooldown GCD - Global Cooldown Common Assassination Abilities and Abbreviations (Stuff that should be on your bars) Mutilate (Mut) Dispatch Marked for Death (MfD) Shuriken Toss (Toss) Rupture (Rup) Garrote Cheap Shot (CS) Kidney Shot (KS) Envenom Slice and Dice (SnD) Recuperate (Recup) Shadowstep (Step) Burst of Speed (BoS) Sprint Deadly Poison Leeching Poison Crippling Poison (Crip) Gouge Blind Kick Feint Evasion Combat Readiness Stealth Vanish Fan of Knives (FoK) Crimson Tempest (Tempest) Vendetta Smoke Bomb Cloak of Shadows (Cloak, CloS) Sap Venom Rush (Rush, VR, Lemon Zest) Shadow Reflection (SR) Death from Above (DfA) Non-Assassination Abilites and Abbreviations (Things that can't be on your bars, for reference) Hemorrhage (Hemo) Backstab (BS) Shadow Dance (ShD) Sinister Strike (SS) Blade Flurry (Flurry, BF) Killing Spree (Spree) Revealing Strike (RS) Adrenaline Rush (AR)Jokaste262 Jul 19
Apr 14 [Guide] Rogue Raiding Compendium Good day! My name is Alc. I am the writer of this guide. I do not own or claim any information here. This is not based off of my experiences exclusively. It's based off of a pool of knowledge that someone cataloged, processed, and presented. If you wish to dispute anything in this guide, here's what I want you to do ... ...............................................!!!!!ATTENTION!!!!!......................................................... Jokaste has a guide written specifically for Assassination Rogues. I cover Assassination in this guide, however, hers is more in depth and likely better. Check it out! =) Table of Contents Introduction Section I: Specialization Overview Section II: The Basics Section III: Talents and Glyphs Section IV: Gearing and Preparations Section V: Passive Effects Section VI: Stabbing for Dummies Section VII: Non-DPS Spells Section VIII: Proofs Apr 14
Oct 26, 2010 Welcome Rogues: Please Read! Welcome to the Rogue forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss the rogue class with your fellow World of Warcraft players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct ( and guidelines ( before posting. Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, demote unhelpful comments, and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) and a "thumbs down" (Dislike) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. Clicking the "thumbs down" icon will expand a drop-down menu which will include "Dislike," "Trolling, "Spam" and "Report" options. "Dislike" will rate the post down. If enough people dislike a post, it will be darkened, and with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden completely. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Have fun posting on these forums, and good luck with your adventures in Azeroth!Lylirra1 Oct 26, 2010
1m What spec is gonna be the best for raiding? Im having a hard time trying to decide what spec to play... dont want to waste time leveling the wrong artifact weapon..Trvp7 1m
6m Is Slice and Dice worth it? For Outlaw Rogues. I can't stand the tedious Roll The RNG and getting sub-par options 2/3 of the time (2 of the six possibilities essentially Slice and Dice). Is Slice and Dice worth the talent if you take Ghostly Strike?Tiponya25 6m
9m yeah assassin is going to return Class Changes and Bugfixes: The Exsanguinate nerf hotfix wasn't handled well.Violetear67 9m
13m Ninja instead of Subtlety Instead of subtlety, they should have made a ninja spec. I mean kindda like how they revamped combat to outlaw. Would be cool cuz of pirate vs ninja haha They could have had this passive like Use onehanded as twohanded. Like opposite to Fury warrior. So that they don't have to make a new weapon class agi two handers. Subtlety is all about stealth anyways so ninja would have fit. Feel like would have helped Sub class fantasy too. I don't know, would have been interesting. They could have done something with MoP's secret society in Pandaria for the Eastern flavor.Huglife4 13m
22m Men who role Female Rogues You're Lady boys. You personify yourself as a female entity in this game. You wish you could have been born a female is that it? Does the X Y chromosome inside you rebel? If you are immersing yourself as a female ninja I and a lot of other men will never take you seriously. You are just a bunch of Lady Boys. That's it. I will however take you seriously if you just admit from the get go that there is a bit of gender confusion and you are happy being Lady boys, at least we all are on the same page you know?Dragonrise119 22m
38m Tricks of Our Trade: Invasive leveling! ... Choo choo.Knocrogue100 38m
40m Outlaw is stupid... or so i thought Recently I read a post about how fun outlaw is and since the original patch dropped I have put off trying it out. I kept saying how stupid the RNG sounded. Man I've been playing it for a few nights and I must say I really found it surprisingly enjoyable. Thanks to those of you that put me on to the path of trying it out. I'm not speaking about numbers here, just pure fun, which is what i care most about.Mandyd29 40m
41m Final decision time, folks. So... it's either Sub Rogue of Havoc Demon Hunter for me. Brief backstory: I play mainly PVP, and mained sub rogue in Wrath and Cata. To me, sub rogue in 3.3.3 pvp was the perfect class. Even without the heal, you had so many options. You could bleed kite a warrior or DK. You could keep casters pressured. You could backstab/evis burst the squishier classes. Your control kept you alive, and sap -> bandage -> stealth -> open was a thing. I've played with sub for a day or so, and haven't geared up for PVP yet... but the nostalgia is hitting me right in the feels. I get that some of you are furious about the rogue changes, and I'm not here to debate you. You're all entitled to your opinions. Just looking for some outside help from people who may have enjoyed a similar history of play.Zeriko12 41m
51m Sub Needs some love before Legion launches Sub coming from the PvE side needs some love buffs so it can stay competitive with the rest of our specs cause I know blizzards philosophy was to keep them at least within 5% dps of each other, but as it currently stands sub is more like 20% behind even maybe 25% behind... so before people start investing into there artifacts I'm hoping we could get some tweaks or even some artifact trait buffs so Sub isn't too far behind. If sub stays like this at 110 it will lag behind a lot from the rest of our specs. I would love to get a blue response to this. If you guys agree or disagree please post belowKuroii16 51m
53m One week left... Only one week left till legion. Anybody having any last minute urges to switch classes away from rogue? I haven't seen any maths from today's nerf/buff/what-ever-the-!@#$. I'm personally on the fence, can't quite decide.Koorral21 53m
53m I can't get more than two RTB buffs. I've been attacking a target dummy, building combo points and casting Roll the Bones over and over. I have probably cast it close to a hundred times in the span of a few minutes. Not once did I get more than two Roll the Bones buffs. Formerly, I would alternate from anywhere between one buff to every buff. Was this ability quietly nerfed? Even the dice look smaller.Mirson20 53m
57m Alternative Subtlety Play-Style I've been giving some thought to what could be done with Subtlety to give it some depth, make it more balance-able, and give it tools that fit it more thematically. This is just me writing out my thoughts. I figured I might as well share them for discussion purposes. Not everyone will agree, and I encourage that. These are just my opinions on what would "make sub great again", and opinions aren't objective facts. To start off, the foundation for what I've come up with is based around a few ideas and re-utilizing some older mechanics for the purposes of development resources. First, thematically, being attacked by a rogue is traumatic. No one simply shrugs off a proper rogue onslaught. Second, I haven't found anyone opposed to dots or debuffs. Third, mobility is great, but it will end poorly in the long run. You have to balance the damage around the up-time, and when you do, the damage will be too low to actually do much. Finally, rogues are about coming out of no where and ending you. Assassination is about all in committing to a single target, while Subtlety is about setups into finishers. Shadow Dance and Shadowstrike: Problem:- First problem (to me at least) is Shadow Dance. Everything else around subtlety is pointless because of SD. Why not take Gloomblade? Because Shadowstrike. Since SD is so integral to the core of subtlety, why is it competing with everything else available to the spec? The only talent that directly competes with an SD talent is Thief's Bargain, and look how powerful it is. Shadowstrike, even with a 15yd range, makes you stupid difficult to peel. This level of stickiness is simply absurd. Melee have never needed this level of stickiness, and Melee have generally had the damage to back up that low up-time, so Shadowstrike simply over complicates the balance for this spec for very little gain. Proposed Solution:- This is a "see the big picture" type of idea, so bear with me. Start by removing the charges off of Shadow Dance, and remove Subterfuge from the talents. Make Subterfuge baseline, but instead of it just allowing you to use your stealth abilities, make it trigger SD. Change Deepening Shadows to also extend the duration of the currently running SD, the exact amount will need balance tweaking. Also tweak, probably lower, the amount it reduces the CD on the SD cooldown. The aim would be for SD to eventually fall off and you start it back up from either stealth or the CD. Remove Shadowstrike, or just remove the mobility from it. If the mobility is removed, Gloomblade should also modify Shadowstrike. (Gloomstrike or something, lol). In my opinion, it should simply be removed, and make Backstab/Gloomblade do Shadowstrike damage while stealth/SD. Understand, the goal of these ideas are not to remove depth from the spec, but to instead move what little depth is in these to other places. Refreshing SD just to have another button to press is silly if you actually have other things to think about. Deepening Shadows: No problem with it, but as I was writing the mobility section below, I thought of something and this section sets the context for the next section. Subtlety is about setups and finishers. By expanding Deepening Shadows to lower certain (not all) cooldowns appropriately, we can add depth to spec without adding unreasonable complexity. This will keep the skill floor low for new players, but raise the skill ceiling for more advanced players. Assassination isn't complicated, and Outlaw isn't that hard either. Rogue does need one spec with some head room for skill, but not so stupid to scare people off. Mobility and Shadowstep: Problem:- Melee need some form of mobility, and sub, both thematically and traditionally, generally has a lot, but no where near the amount sub has right now. High up-time melee simply doesn't end well, especially for one who has a ridiculous variety on slows (see Nightblade with L75 talents). To account for high up-time, the damage will have to be lowered, or at least the burst will. Low burst is bad in pvp. Proposed Solution:- Increase the cooldown of Shadowstep, and give it 2 charges. Let the cooldown be reduced by Deepening Shadows by some balanced amount. The idea is to, ultimately, lower mobility but reward good setups and combos, but not completely gimp the rogue in the event that they, screw up an opener, make a mistake, or get outplayed. Damage and Finishers: Problem:- Sub damage comes from Shadowstrike, Evisc, and maintaining Nightblade. Man, that sure does sound fun. I've always wanted to replace my 1 key after every raid or a few arenas. Seriously though, what about this screams sub rogue? Because it has Shadow/Night in its name? At least combat had a reason for one main ability, a generic "swing big metal weapon at target" type of thing, but even then combat at least had another move to use on occasion, to refresh a buff/debuff. Lets not forget the high mobility problem, low burst. I'm pretty sure, on beta at the moment, sub rogues have pretty good damage, and can generally destroy whatever they please. Think of this though, how long will it be into the arena season before sub gets "tuned" because casters can't kite them. Proposed Solution:- This builds on the idea that people don't seem opposed to dots. I've already talked about Shadowstrike, so I won't go back into it. First, lets make Enveloping Shadows baseline. It's a clear dps loss, but a viable tool to help someone who's fallen out of Shadow Dance. This is an example of the "bigger picture" thing I mentioned before. Add an additional cb generator. I'm just going to call it "Sneaky Stab" because I'm terrible w/ names, but put simply it adds a shadow dot ("Sneaky Dot") to the target. It should be maintained along side Nightblade. "Sneaky Dot" would preferably have an initial tick, but I don't know the balance implications of that. Now, this is where it gets interesting. Lets take a page out of the WoD book for a moment. Lets add a buff, it can be from a passive, baked into "Sneaky Stab", or a baseline finisher, but the purpose of this buff is to allow auto attacks to trigger an extra "tick" from your dots (Nightblade and "Sneaky Dot" :P). I'll call this one "Stabby Buff", rofl. Stabby Buff is where the fun comes in. This gives subtlety some form of setup, but it also allows some aoe. Stabby Buff takes some of the power out of the dots, making it viable to either bake "Sneaky Dot" into Shuriken Storm or another finisher (don't want to add too many finishers). Last, and probably the most important, lets change what Evisc does. Instead of simply one big strike, change it to a burst of multiple strikes. How many strikes, and how hard they hit is up to whoever balances the numbers, but the important part is that these strikes proc "Stabby Buff". This makes setup a bit more important as Evisc wouldn't deal a truck load of damage without the dots. This also applies to aoe fights where a quick Shuriken Storm will set you up with the cb for Nightblade and "Sneaky Dot" already on the target you're switching to. One additional thing to add is for Shadow Blades. Having the new Evisc also proc the shadow damage from Shadow Blades gives sub a legitimate cooldown. Might possibly want to tone it down a bit damage wise though. Final Note: I think Premeditation is simply too strong. Not in that it makes sub op, but in that what talent can really compete from permanent cb gain for your abilities? Unfortunately, I can't think of what to do with it at the present. Example Opener: Just a quick and dirty sample opener: (obviously no numbers) "CB Generator" = Which ever is the most appropriate cb generator. Backstab, Gloomblade, or Shadowstrike (if it isn't removed). This is also assuming Premeditation, since why would you take anything else? Cheap Shot -> "CB Generator" -> Nightblade -> "Sneaky Stab" (loool) -> "CB Generator" -> "CB Generator" -> Evisc Summary: Just to reiterate, the intended goals of these changes were: To lower sub's ridiculous mobility while keeping it higher than other rogue specs. Add a bit more depth to sub while maintaining the current level of complexity. Bring back the thematic elements lost while appealing to a broader audience, both new and the traditional. By bringing some level of setup, more than Outlaw but less than Assassination, rewarding the player for executing finishers by lowering cooldowns, and increasing the burst capabilities of subtlety through previously existing mechanics, I think this would be a sub rogue I could enjoy for some time. All in all, this was just me writing down my long winded thoughts, and wondering what other people thought about them. Obviously this doesn't cover everything, like what to do with the space left by Enveloping Shadows, but its definitely a start, and shouldn't be an overwhelming about of development work as this is effectively a culmination of existing mechanics. Let me hear what you guys think, what parts you agree w/ or disagree w/. Of course, the probability of these changes, or any semblance of them, being put into WoW are astronomically low, but the best way to push for change is discussion with the goal of finding solutions. Blizzard may hire some of the best and brightest devs and designers, but time has always proven that brainstorming for ideas always works better with more brains. :) TLDR: Rogue could use some changes. Edit: Sweet jesus this wall of text.... wut....Zaikon0 57m
1h Best race? So im debating DH or rogue. I like DH because it reminds me of a flashy combat rogue, however with no stealth, little to no CC, getting perma CCd by everyone else with only a trinket AAAAAND being squishier than an arcane mage in BC, im thinking of going Outlaw. The question is which horde race? Thoughts?Jrpbeezy14 1h
1h Pve raid spec. Ok guys legion is right around the corner and I'm stuck with what spec to be playing (rogue pve). Although from what i hear assassination is topping the charts i feel like outlaw could be more useful. I dont know how legion dungeons and raid boss fights are. So that being said which spec do you guys believe will you guys be bringing to help your guild out and why?Hien2 1h
1h Legion Professions So apparently since Professions are making a come back in Legion in the respect that they will have more of an impact on gearing and such. With that being said, what are you beta players speculating for the best professions for Rogues come Legion?Mordios1 1h
2h if you want poison build as assassin check your damage meter if you have one until poison damage is higher than your rupture damage (it is now even with the poison build) the best dps choice is still bleeding build if you just wanna have fun go whichever build you like such as poison class fantasy and stuff if you wanna max your dps and also play your class fantasy tell blizz to nerf bleeding moreVioletear1 2h
3h Is assassination trash in pvp? I really want to focus on the assassination artifact for pve but I also want to participate in pvp, without gimping my artifact. How is assassin without having blind ect.Cataclast30 3h
3h THE ULTIMATE RATE YOUR TRANSMOG THREAD A new way to do it where the thread can run endlessly. What you do is, simply make a post in this thread saying 'RATE MY LOOK PLEASE' and thats it! Then others can simply give you a thumbs up or down or nothing. If people want to comment on your transmog they simply quote you and give commentary. The only posts that qualify to be rated are the ones that state 'RATE MY LOOK PLEASE' This will give everyone a way to see how their appearance is to other posters other than a simply single reply ! Best part is, we can then see by votes who the community views as the best appearances ! So have at it ! If you want the community to vote on your transmog post a reply in this thread !Whatsgravity67 3h
3h Is sub garbage right now Seems to do no damage at all compared to the other 2 specsKämí32 3h
3h Assassination poison builds...need some work. I think Poison builds for Assassination are a non starter because Agonizing poison and Alacrity suck so bad for the spec atm. (Assassination feels like the only Playable build just got nerfed way to far.) Maybe a decent poison build could emerge if alacrity caused deadly poison to deal more damage?Ghostmourn20 3h
4h I've been stuck in stealth for 2 days... No idea how it happened. It literally won't break for anything. Relogging, porting, combat, damage, entering a BG, I mean ANYTHING. I guess I'll go ahead and open a ticket now. And here you all are complaining about random stealth breaking. 4h
4h Posions > Bleeds? With the new Buffs and Nerf's what do you guys think of the Assassination rogues now? Have anyone dug into the numbers to see if specking into Master Poisner, Agonizing Posion, and or Venom Rush is viable? Or will our bleed traits still come out on top? This might make specing into Mastery a must again. Please what are your thoughts? (Changes Posted Below) Rogue Death from Above will no longer refund excess combo points if the player is using Anticipation. Assassination: Envenom damage has been increased to 60% Attack Power per point (was 50%). Deadly Poison instant damage has been increased to 17% Attack Power (was 14.2%). Rupture damage has been decreased to 25% Attack Power (was 30%). Agonizing Poison now stacks 5 times (was 4). Developer's Note: We shifted some damage from Rupture into poison affects to increase the significance of poisons in the rotation and help poison-oriented talents better compete with bleed-oriented talents.Nullfox39 4h
4h New PVE Assassination Rogue Spec Since Patch Did some testing out on this today it looks like the best way to go is to run a 3/1/1/3/1/1/1 spec. It looks like its the top spec to go with, and the rotation feels much cleaner. There is a overall nerf to the DPS than before, but this spec feels more familiar to me. Its feels like the old school SND spec in WoTLK. In addition because its easier to use, you might have seen a DPS increase on more complicated fights due to better management. Please let me know your thoughts. Talents: Hemorrhage Nightstalker Deeper Stratagem Cheat Death (Or preference ) Thuggee Agonizing Poison Venom RushNullfox17 4h
4h Weapon enchants Hi all, Just looking to pick the brains of other Rogues. I plan on staying Subtlety for the xpac. I'm just curious for PVE what would people recommend as far as weapon enchants, stat priority? I've checked Icy Veins and other sites, and some say Bleeding Hollow (Mastery), or Shadowmoon (Vers), Thunderlord (Crit). What do people recommend? And according to Icy Veins, our stat priority is Agi-Mastery-Vers, etc? I'm just looking to min/max my way to 110, then jump back into PVP, or maybe even BG along the way. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!Sakar2 4h
5h Rogue Class Hall I just re-subbed recently and haven't been keeping up-to-date with the news about Legion. Last I heard, the Rogue class hall was Dalaran sewers, which everyone was understandably upset about. Did Blizzard ever address that or change it? Or did they just ignore the complaints and feedback?Stabriel18 5h
5h Demon Hunters Is it just me, or do we have a huge leg up when facing DHs? Every one I have fought has yet to get me below 50% HP, and admittedly I'm not terribly great at PvP. Maybe poison + bleeds really is just that good at the moment? *shrug*Rootshell5 5h
13h Vacant UI - Become a Better Player (Legion) Old Thread: The old thread reached its post limit so I thought I'd make this to let people know that I'm updating the UI for the Legion pre-patch that released today. Hey. I'm Vacant! I've played a Rogue on Tichondrius for 10 years. My goal with this project is to provide a visually appealing UI that clearly and cleanly presents pertinent information to immensely improve awareness in PVP and PVE situations. This UI is currently tailored for Rogue, Feral Druid, Survival Hunter, Arms Warrior, Frost Mage, Retribution Paladin, Affliction Warlock, and Frost Death Knight with other classes and specs on the way! Regardless, the UI is still extremely good for each and every class. Updated: Mostly everything is working. Grid and Tidy Plates are both still buggy.Vacant35 13h
13h Nightblades slow effect bugged? The Nightblade spells slow effect does not refresh from Shuriken Toss, Is this intended?Puraplus1 13h
15h Trinkets Help hey guys! It's my first expansion that I'll be maining a rogue, I've been having a blast with it, however I've been pretty stumped on BiS trinkets. I'm currently assassination, but I've been asked to learn outlaw as well for legion. so I currently own Stone of elements Skull of war Class trinket For assassination I couldn't decided if my class trinket beat out the other two? What do you guys think and how have your results turned out? If possible, what are the best two for each spec. Thanks in advanced!Kevetix0 15h
16h Quick question on Hemo. Does it still give 25%+ dmg even if I bleed my target then hit hemo, or must I hemo and then bleed? What about if I need to refresh it?Packofcrows2 16h
16h Sin Spec Idea - Make Alacrity viable Not at all an original or groundbreaking idea, but, make haste effect Sin bleeds plox blizz. It would make up for the constant nerfs you beat us with, and would open up a 2nd viable choice for Hemo talent line. And I'm sure it wouldn't make the scaling at 110 with the Kingslayer poison that OP. It would also add a small degree of difficulty to the spec, too much haste and you wouldn't be able to keep 100% up times on bleeds. And it would make up for the serve lack of sin finishers. If I'm required to use more ruptures, I won't have to use silly envenom, thus reducing the amount of time I set there thinking the spec needs another finisher. Only for assassination though, if you gave it to feral druids I'd uninstall and burn down blizz HQ.Koorral0 16h
16h Legion PvP Arenas and RBGs Hello Everyone, I am torn on what spec to play for legion PvP. Outlaw or Sin. I have always like Sin but with lack of blind,gouge, and smoke bomb i feel it is way to gimped to use at a competitive level. I am not too familiar with the artifact weapons and what they do, but i couldnt see anything to make Sin get any more CC. With the lack of CC, is Outlaw the way to go between the 2? I would like to know your thoughts. Thanks!Shadowdesire1 16h
17h Useful macros for arenas? Trying to get good with rogue, i love this class due to it being !@#$ing hard to master. Its pretty obvious when dueling a ok rogue, and against a rogue who mastered the art of stealth.. im a sub rogue, alt assassin all i have is the sap macro spammable from using mousewheel.. im looking for some focus cc macro's and other useful to help me and my team become better playersLilcrits6 17h
17h How to live during invasions So my rogues 75 and I am having fun doing the invasions to level. But I die all the time to AOE besides our 2 cooldown skills to stop magic and aoe damage is there anything else I can do to live? Or is this just the curse of not grouping with a healer?Poxxo21 17h
17h Pistol Shot color I know this is pretty random.. but why did they color Pistol Shot to be the same color as buttons that are Out of Range? It's kind of difficult to run around knowing when i'm in range lol. Or am I just crazy lol?Apea6 17h
19h Hate the new sub And the new sin. Never touched combat/outlaw until today. Didn't think I'd ever say it but.... It's great. I love itMortiarty6 19h
19h Whats your plan for legion? As a pvper, - Do bgs all day till i get my desired amount of honor talents. - Do missions for artifacts - Grind grind... - ProfitLilcrits3 19h
19h Artifact weapon tree path Which way are you going in? Once you get 13 points into it, going 13 to 14 jumps to 6840 artifact power, basically the same that took you from 1-13. Not sure where I'll head after this, maybe into evis crit.Tzuyu1 19h
20h how does each spec varies for rogues? what are the different game play styles in each 3 specs available? and do think a feral druid or rogues is more fun as a stealth class? i have 2 mains, a mage and death knight, and i plan to use my legion boost on a hunter, and i was going to lv another alt via invasions im stuck between warlock rogues and druid which do you prefer and think is more fun out of those 3?, and would offer a greater gmaeplay difference in contrast to my main mage,dk, and hunter? please and thanksÉleanora2 20h
21h Fix the God Damn Stealth Bug!!!!!! One week until the new x-pac and stealth is still broken. No blue post informing us that they are working on it that I can see in the search option. This is a major Effin issue here. It would be nice to have some closure for us Rogues knowing that you guys are working on it. This is how a regular business would handle this problem.Toodyhoo15 21h
21h How to be a better Ninja (Capper) Hello Roguefam, I am writing a quick guide on how to pull off better ninja caps in BGs like AV/AB/Gilneas. Make no mistake this is high level, advanced ninja stuff which always carries some risk. However if you pull it off you can find yourself making the winning play that could turn a near loss into a near win. Iv'e used these tricks to get mastery achieves in the above BGs and I am writing this because maybe there's a new rogue it can help too. 1. Take off your title This applies to Regular BGs more than RBGs. Though many players use health bars, some players still do not. When you go for a ninja cap, you want as little red text over your head as possible announcing you are there. The flag defender doesn't need to know you are there, much less you are THE Champion of the Frozen Whatever. 2. Do not use stuns Here is where the high level ninja stuff comes in. Many flag defenders have one thing in common, their jobs can get INCREDIBLY boring. This will cause them to easily start to loose focus. When you go sap them, it instantly alerts the players that "oh no there's a rogue here!" and they start screaming HELLPPPP ME THE FKING ROGUE IS NINJAING. You don't want this. Instead of sapping the enemy flag defender, use flag defender's attention span against them. Always use this trick when there are 2+ defenders at a flag. If it fails, good thing you made that cloak of shadows + vanish macro. 3. Use LOS to you advantage. When you go in for the cap, you do not want the defender to know their flag is being capped. When going in, always stand as far as you can into the defender's peripherals, or even behind them if possible. If they are facing the flag and this is impossible, get real friendly with the flag and try to have it block their LOS on you. If you play Alterac Vally, the Dwarven Bunkers are extremely fun to use this trick on since they have an outer ring and a wall behind the flag. To cap or recap it, stand on the outside and try to angle yourself so that the wall behind the flag is between you and the defending players. 4. Persistence You may get caught the first 3 times you go for a ninja cap in a BG. However that 4th go may be the game winning play. Good Luck!Astrylian14 21h
23h Stealth or Trick or Treat (Trick) Any plans to make stealth work as advertised? I'd say it was broken but I don't want to insult all the broken things in this world so much so that it spurred my first forum post in many years.Dcn0 23h