Aug 20 They've Gone Rogue on Us with Outlaw... They broke the smoothly spinning wheel, its consistent and reliable power reduced to a game of chance. As if the RNG in drops weren't enough, they've turned the core playstyle into an RNG f***fest. I learned how to raid well in 2010 using Combat. Not as old and hardcore as many can brag of, but since that time, I almost always topped DPS, did quests and pretty much everything while hardly needing to change anything. Maybe the occasional change to Shuriken or Burst of Speed, but yeah. That was it. And even with the changes that took place in Warlords, being a Combat Rogue has always been great. It got the job done. It was fun. It brought me many epic moments. Then came this... Outlaw. They replace one of the most reliable raiding specs with this Outlaw thing. While I was reading during the hype-building period, I got excited. The "fantasy" part was cool, until now I see that it indeed was just that. Pistol Shot? Sure. Tell me how that makes the whole thing better. Its damage is low. It slows, but so what? Death from Above? Where?! And how(!) when you're abysmally below on meters? Roll the Bones? This has gotten me punching my own head for how many days now in frustration. In Combat, I knew what numbers I'd more or less pull on a raid boss. With Outlaw, I only make half of those numbers, get raped by mobs in Tanaan, and can no longer solo the rares. Now tell me I'm just bad. Throughout all the changes in Combat, sure I lost and gained some DPS on the meters, but I became stable after a few, even without trying. Now, still at a pretty decent ilvl, I cannot reach top 5. I think there's something wrong. Call me stupid for ranting and not showing maths and acronyms but I think I'm not the only one who feels this way about this whole Outlaw thing. I've been forcing myself to not be the guy who cries about change. But if the reason you've been playing the game for years gets an instant Kick to the face just because of "fantasy" and other shiny things, I think that's a little bit too harsh. Combat was simple, not OP, got the job done, and yielded DPS according to how much you put into it. This Outlaw thing is one hell of an unnecessarily complicated diarrhea of pretend-genius s**t. I believe and dearly hope this is just a joke, a nightmare... that it will all even out on 110, but until then I'll have to wait, login excited, logout angry, until I awake. Thank you.Furtris8 Aug 20
Aug 20 Rogue nerfs Blizzard there is only one way to describe the way rogues are going with all the nerfs to each spec. This is how i feel. Aug 20
Aug 20 New Assasination AOE Make a finishing move that applies a bleed to all targets hit by fan of knives for assasination rogues. AOE swapping targets to apply rupture is beyond stupid.Slothbag3 Aug 20
Aug 20 Outlaw Rogue lvl 100 boost? I couldn't seem to find information on this anywhere else. For some reason the only spec I can seem to boost to level 100 as is assassination. Or, that's the only option it will let me choose. I was hoping someone may know more about this. I guess I'm not sure if the stats on the gear would be much different or matter much. Thanks in advance for any help or advice.Illicitus7 Aug 20
Aug 19 We have Alpha-Grappling Hook back!!! This morning I was poking around the forums just seeing what was up, and noticed a post made on the Legion Outlaw thread just 23 hours before, saying this. I rushed onto the live game to see for myself and verify, and its true its true! Now I'm not talking about the recent change a couple days ago where we could use it uphill (Though I'm so glad they even fixed that, because damn)--they made it so we could target rooftops from the ground and go from roof to roof in SW like Batman just like in the alpha/early beta when things were nice and super fun! So go swing around and hook and rejoice--the change is so recent MMO champ doesn't even have it listed yet!Asotcha16 Aug 19
Aug 19 Outlaw Artifact and Self Healing To any who have played the beta: how is Outlaw self healing with the Dread Blades. I know there is a talent called Greed that has a chance to proc a heal on Run Through. Is it significant? Any response is appreciated.Bonesalter4 Aug 19
Aug 19 Best PvP and PVE Spec Hey Guys, Wondering what the best specs out there for both right now. Left a while, back now wondering whats good.Maksimus2 Aug 19
Aug 19 Does anyone else think Vanish is useless now? If Cloak of Shadows is on Cooldown vanish is pretty much completely useless whenever you need to use it (usually because there are a million DoTs on you) i think it needs some sort of buffQuill26 Aug 19
Aug 19 Presenting my latest movie: Stepchildx 3 Hello fellow rogues and friends, I'd like to share my latest PvP Movie - Stepchildx 3 "Resistance" (WoD 6.2+) I hope you all enjoy. What to expect: 2650+ 3v3 World PvP 1v2's and more! Looking forward to Legion! Thanks, StepchildxStepchildx5 Aug 19
Aug 19 Assassination and solo pve content ? I love my rogue in pvp. In fact its my favorite class to pvp on. I really want to go into legion with my rogue as my main, but i am finding it very hard to do pve solo content ( soloing elite mobs , killing packs ...). The main spec i use is assassination and while stuff can die fast if i get more then one mob it becomes an issue. Because of this i am second guessing my choice to main a rogue because i just don't want to pvp. For the most part i want to experience everything legion has to offer. While i don't have to be great at everything I also don't want to feel gimped and want to be able to knock out solo pve content without having to switch specs. So i guess my questions are does assassination level well from 100-110 ? Is it viable in 5 mans with lack luster Aoe ? ( 5 man mythic is how i plan to gear ). If not i have an enhance shaman and unholy Dk waiting as backup. Any feed back would be appreciated. Thanks.Uden9 Aug 19
Aug 19 Live PVE which spec u using? ^ Title. Which spec are you using in live? Any mythic raiders testing their dps out? I can't quite get a decent feel for which talents or rotation i should be using for any of the specs... Any help/tips would be awesome ;) (I realize that 110 and artifacts and tier gear are going to change things - im just thinking about right now).Giggleblush8 Aug 19
Aug 19 Holey Moley Macaroni Spectral Sight Anyone manage to not auto get knocked out of stealth in arena against a demonhunter within the first 10 seconds? I play assassination (rip) and it's just like every arena against a dh there is the blaring decision to waste my shadowstep or sprint by putting it on cd immediately to open on the enemy dh before i get knocked out of stealth or just pray they suck and I get to them prior to. Not to mention there are many dh's in bgs and i get knocked out all the time by glaive tosses. Insert self tears here. This isn't a huge problem, but is there some trick I'm missing. Seems like escaping spectral sight is very difficult.Värëm7 Aug 19
Aug 19 Potential main I was gonna main a rogue in LEG but not now. The nerf bat was bad and shoulda been directed at the way broken locks and their heals. When does that happen??Jawgaboy7 Aug 19
Aug 19 Outlaw disparity in PvP In wpvp I feel completely broken, but in instanced pvp I hit like a wet noodle... What gives? I guess artifact and PvP talents will un-nerf things a little?Graves2 Aug 19
Aug 19 After being so unsure of what to choose For Legion, I hopped on my rogue and tried Outlaw. In love with this spec right now.Outrunthesun10 Aug 19
Aug 19 Outlaw or Mut spec for pvp? I love both, but with the whole artifact thing and having to level that up, I'm still deciding which spec to main. I play pretty casually but would like to get in on some rbgs this xpac, which spec do you guys feel has more of an impact in that type of pvp?Gankedurmum2 Aug 19
Aug 19 shadowstrike STEALTH NERF What's this? I'm finding myself not within range anymore?? That's because Shadowstrike got stealth nerfed down to 15 yards. I think that was overkill. Why can't we do off-numbers? Like 18 yards? I've suddenly just lost a little interest in my rogue. /sighJohncalvin144 Aug 19
Aug 19 Legion PVE Spec What spec is everyone thinking will be the best for Legion, have 0 time on beta and was just curious.Roguardi0 Aug 19
Aug 19 RIP Combat - Outlaw is crap! I've played Combat since Vanilla. It was a great spec! Now we have this new Outlaw (half-assed pirate spec...). Combat used to have a great rotation with plenty of talents that required an understanding of the game... now I have one button to push as I wait to pop one of two finishers... Sure, roll the bones is neat looking, but I think the dev team fell too in love with this pirate BS and forgot to make a spec that worth your time to play. Also, killing Combat in favor of this?? wtf? Sorry Blizz but you've gutted the Rogue completely.Sabertusk60 Aug 19
Aug 19 Please Change Spectral Sight With the introduction of Spectral Sight, the sneaky playstyle I've used on my rogue for the past 10+ years is obsolete. I can't do the ordinary rogue things I've always done in battlegrounds if there is even 1 Demon Hunter: Hovering around near a flag carrier in WSG, reporting on his movements while I wait for backup. Charging at the enemy team on my mount at the start of a BG and stealthing at the last second. Sneaking behind everybody in Strand to plant a bomb. Defending a flag from being capped in AB by spam sapping everybody trying to recap it, buying time until my team arrives. Just generally being invisible near the enemy team. Most rogues I've talked to have said they want it either to be a much longer CD (like the 2 minute CD Perception had back in the day) or to be disabled in PvP entirely. However, that is not my suggestion. I see that Blizzard has woven Spectral Sight into the very fabric of the Demon Hunter "class fantasy;" the quest in Stormwind that shows why Anduin accepted the Demon Hunters into the Alliance hinges entirely on their Spectral Sight, lol. And there's the whole blindfold thing and "vision of Sargeras" and everything, yeah yeah. For those reasons, I do not ask that you remove the ability (even though from a pure gameplay perspective, you should). I also do not think slapping a 2 min CD on it like old Perception would solve the problem. For one, it would trivialize the ability for Demon Hunters. Often they use it to see unstealthed players through walls, and I feel they should be able to do that very often. Their ability to do that shouldn't be gimped by the needs of stealthed players. For two, it's a false comparison to draw between old Perception and Spectral Sight. Perception had a reasonably short range (like ~30 yards, less with stealth talents/enchants/racials) and most importantly it did not also reveal the rogue's location through LOS objects. Yes, they could target you while you hid behind a pillar in Nagrand Arena, but they still had no idea where you were and you could play a game of cat-and-mouse with them for the 20 second duration of Perception. So here is my suggestion: Keep Spectral Sight as it is except prevent the Demon Hunter from hitting stealthed players with non-melee attacks for the entire duration. Similar effect to Camouflage. That way rogues stand a chance. I should be able to stealth up next to a group of Horde as I've always done without being hit in the face with a glaive from far away. If the Demon Hunter had to actually hunt me down to reveal me to the rest of his team, I could play a game of cat-and-mouse with him for the duration of Spectral Sight as I used to do in TBC with humans using Perception. I would stand a chance to defend myself with Sap if I identified the threat in time.Ijtihad41 Aug 19
Aug 19 Most ideal spec with afflic Hello everyone, my buddy and I will try rogue/lock and I'm still trying to figure out what's the best spec to use with afflic. Please help and thank you so much in advance.Hitøkiri2 Aug 19
Aug 19 Outlaw, Sub, or Assassination in Legion? So with the changes to specs in Legion on the horizon I just want to gauge the community to see who is going to play what. So what are your thoughts? Which spec are you planning to play? Any specific reason for your choice? Feel free to share your thoughts here.Dalaranxd119 Aug 19
Aug 19 Between the Eyes I've noticed that (seemingly without fail) Between the Eyes will refund / generate a fresh combo point if I use it with four or five existing combo points, but not if I use it with, say, two. I can't find any mention of how or why this happens, so if it's meant to, it'd be handy to know exactly why. Thanks!Crissaegrim5 Aug 19
Aug 19 Kinda Depressing how empty my action bars are Aug 19
Aug 19 Legion gear stats Why is the Legion gear being dropped all with Haste/Master stats?! I need crit/versatility! That is all.Stitch1 Aug 19
Aug 19 RUINING THE ROGUE CLASS. GG ROGUES You already nerfed rogue into the ground days ago with the nerfs to agility for sub and outlaw. ROGUE Subtlety Stat Template Agility: 70% (down from 85%) Outlaw Stat Template Agility: 80% (down from 100%) Then you ruin outlaw with more nerfs Exsanguinate now causes bleeds to tick 100% faster, down from 400% faster. Run Through’s damage has been increased by 25%. Between the Eyes damage has been increased by 18%. Jolly Roger causes Saber Slash to have an additional 25% chance of striking an additional time (was 40%). Buried Treasure increases your base Energy regeneration by 25% (was 40%). Shark Infested Waters increases Critical Strike Chance by 25% (was 40%). Grand Melee increases your attack speed by 50% and your Leech by 25% (was 40% and 20%). Slice and Dice now increases attack speed by 100% (was 90%). Now you overkill nerf sub with a crummy shadowstrike 15 yard range. HOW ABOUT BALANCING THE MOBILITY OF OTHER CLASSES?? Every monk, druid, demon hunter, mage, etc. has far more damage and mobility than a rogue currently. Warlocks are still completely out of control with the extremely overpowered shields and healing and still do WAY more damage than a rogue. Where is the balance in this?Glaivesbruh35 Aug 19
Aug 18 Is there an asson for RTB? Was wondering if there is an addon for roll the bones and if so what was the name. thanksCandycrits8 Aug 18
Aug 18 Rate the rogue name above you ;)Analslam431 Aug 18
Aug 18 need some help I have been away for about a year now so I don't know spec talents i should be using whats good whats not. I would be appreciate any help/infoDunk0 Aug 18
Aug 18 First Legion Artifact? Hey, So what we all know so far is that while levelling in Legion we'll be picking up some Artifact Power, thus making our levelling spec Artifact somewhat more powerful than the others by the time we reach level 110. Meaning, it kind of makes sense that we'd use the best spec at max level to level up. So, what would you recommend we grab while levelling, if PvE oriented?Sniffity2 Aug 18
Aug 18 Assassin Rogue- Remove bleeds- give to outlaw From a theme standpoint i wonder why they didnt give bleed emphasis to outlaw ? Assassin could have had energy regen locked to targets being poisened, and then some kind of re activeness to procs and perhaps a poisoned level meter, target starts spreading poison on the ground as poisoned .. a form of aoe? You could have had them primarily focus on a single target while using the poison level to activate aoe abilities. A spec perhaps with less emphasis on combo points and more emphasis on the poisoning of targets. Just something different is all. Maybe Energy is spent to actually poison targets, while the poisoning meter is used to spread it. Combo points still have a use in that they would be for increasing poison damage on the primary target. There should be poison all over the place. They had a chance to get creative but didnt take it. Seems a shame is all.Mandyd11 Aug 18
Aug 18 Shadow Dance and flares? In pvp, the subterfuge talent (stealth openers may be used 3s after stealth) does not work when stealth is broken by flares, so openers are not possible, which seems fair enough or at least makes sense (avoid standing in the flare, or get punished by losing a chance to open from stealth). However, while in a flare, shadow dance is made completely useless. There is no buff, no aura/stance change, no switching of bars or abilities, only wasted charges of shadow dance. Is this intended? I get hunters and many other classes have stealth counters, but for flare to break shadow dance's mechanic completely nullifies subtlety's effectiveness in pvp. Has anyone else had this issue?Kenton7 Aug 18
Aug 18 BoS Running old instances sure is depressing without it. Will rogues ever go fast again in Legion?Yvi1 Aug 18
Aug 18 Outlaw PvP - advice for fighting Hunters? Hello! I just hit 100 the other day and am trying to get the basics down on my Outlaw Rogue. When dueling my hunter friend, I first have issues since he will get me out of stealth using a flare so I start in a bad position. What tips can you give to a noob like me? It is tough for me to stick to a target that kites me (especially when he shoots me out of Stealth from the beginning). Is part of the fight hiding until Camo wears off on a hunter? Is it worth Vanishing early in the duel to ensure I can Mark of Death, Roll the Bones, and then Cheap Shot for a good opener? As for staying on a Target, is it worth using Cloak of Shadows and Sprint offensively? Thank you!Androz5 Aug 18
Aug 18 The cooldown on Bribe is too long. It's such a cool ability but 30 minutes? Cmon. 10 is a good number. 30 is borderline offensive, so much so that I forget I even have it when the CD is up.Slamjam7 Aug 18
Aug 18 Slice and Dice for Combat Proposal Can we instead of increased attack speed have increased haste? Also, Alacrity takes forever to get to 20 stacks. It's impossible in Mythic Dungeons to get to 20. Can we have this reduced to 10 stacks? Thanks.Dragonrise24 Aug 18
Aug 18 My Thoughts on Outlaw I have played sub for most of my rogue experience over the years. Now with the massive changes I found myself not liking the playstyle of sub as much. So I thought, what the heck, let's try outlaw... Love it! A lot of utilities, a lot of fun! Adding the new pistol shots at first seemed kind of weird but I'm enjoying their features. Now I just need a good pirate transmog for this. ;) What are your thoughts on Outlaw?Drashtan4 Aug 18
Aug 18 Shadowcraft issues. help with shadowcraft dps calculator? I try to refresh from armory but it says pound rogues are broken and this page too? Does anyone know what to do?Wizzahs1 Aug 18
Aug 18 Outlaw Prepatch Tier 17 DPS I was wondering if anyone has done any simcraft testing with T17 with the 4pc Set bonus. I've been running Heroic T17 4pc, Deeper Strat, Alacrity, and MfD, and my Run Through spamming is borderline ridiculous. Also running Mythic Scales of Doom or Demon Heirloom trinket. (Ignore the mastery enchants and gems - doing that for world PVP). With this 721 item level set, I've been competitive (but still slightly behind) 745 mythic raiders. Here's the synergy: Deeper Strat should gives me 24% chance for another 6 point Run Through. I can sometimes spam 3,4, even 5 consecutive Run Throughs. That actually boils down to 20% more free run throughs (24% vs. 20%). Marked for Death let's me fill in the gaps when I spam 6 point Run Throughs. I've chained 10+ RTs this way. If I get this with True Bearing, I can get 2 ARs during a 6 point True Bearing buff. Given all of this, I was wondering if Simcraft has any numbers on this. Can't wait to see what you folks find out.... ~A Edit: I have full HFC Heroic gear, but I like the Heroic T17 better, even though each piece is 35 item levels lower... (about 140 total item levels I'm giving up just from Tier)Aeryndil5 Aug 18
Aug 18 Sub PVE at 110 The spec looks really fun, and the animations are interesting. And the theme seems well put together. But hardly ever hear the spec talked about for PVE. I know historically it was more for pvp, but with how artifacts take a while to level I was wondering if is an effective spec for both pvp and pve. Is it within a reasonable distance of the other specs in pve?Mandyd2 Aug 18
Aug 18 Fight This War. Another post regarding rogues being unstealthed for no reason. no dots... no aoe... no whatever the DH sight thing is... It's kind of funny at times but 99% of the time is just aids in my ballsack.Níneplusten1 Aug 18
Aug 18 You should try the new Outlaw spec So last night I got to try out the new Outlaw spec. I just came back from over a year long break and have to say it was a blast. I love the new "Roll the Bones" skill, such a great idea! I love seeing what I get and there are so many different perks available. And the "Grappling Hook", holy...awesome! I've been completely blown away by how great Legion is so far, hoping the fun continues once the true expansion starts.Jorak8 Aug 18
Aug 18 Recovering as a Rogue Hey all you pro pvp rogues I've a query. How do you recover as a rogue if you're being opened upon first? With no support... Do you trinket the cheap shot? I personally do. And then I prob vanish and turn the tables. To prevent further damage and the chain cc into a kidney especially in the current meta. What are your views, opinions ?Serblime12 Aug 18
Aug 18 What Rogue spec are you rolling in Legion? I'd love to hear opinions, mainly because I'm stumped on what to roll. I'm mainly a pvper and I've mained Rogue since Cata, and I've always had much love for sub, was rolling Mut, and I loved combat pre Legion, mained it for WoD, though not sure how I feel about the whole RNG mechanic though. What are my fellow rogues going with rolling into Legion, will you be just straight up abandoning rogues?Kusabanna52 Aug 18
Aug 18 Raising as assassination or sub in legion Raiding as assassination or sub, I don't have good daggers yet so I havnt had a chance to try anything other than outlaw, however I'm eager to try them in the next few days. Just curious as to which spec will be more popular for raising between the 2 dagger specs. All input is much appreciated!Toastedbunz1 Aug 18
Aug 18 Sub in 5 man Mythics/Challenge Modes I am looking to try something new this expansion, and want to main a rogue. How viable do you think sub will be for 5 man mythics? They don't have the best 3-4 man aoe, and I feel like that might be a hindrance. Am I over thinking it? Thoughts?Zergift4 Aug 18
Aug 18 SUB rotation is mostly Autoattack and wait? i am posting for advice on the Sub rotation (PVE) -apply buffs symbols of death and shadow blades. -shadow strike target. -continue shadowstrike till Subterfuge wears off -5 point nightblade (the new rupture) -* auto attack till energy builds (Master of shadows helps) -shadow dance -shadow strike till shadow dance wears off -5 point eviscerate -* auto attack again till energy builds (Master of shadows helps) -shadow dance (and reapply symbols of death) -shadow strike till shadow dance wears off -refresh 5 point night blade -repeat QUESTION 1: backstab is only used when shadow dance is in complete cooldown...? QUESTION 2: my main concern is the times when i auto attack to build energy for the next Shadow Dance. this time seems excessively long, and makes the spec feel empty. But, maybe i am doing something wrong?Gleam8 Aug 18
Aug 18 Dance on GCD, How do you Feel? (Lets Fix It) I am currently trying to bring to the attention of Celestalon one of the simple yet very 'awkward' issues I have with Subtlety. When used, Shadow Dance does not Trigger a Global Cooldown. However, when you are on GCD from say Cheap Shot or Shadow Strike. Shadow Dance, if pressed. Will not activate until that GCD is finished. I feel the functionality of Shadow Dance is awkward due to this. For example, when opening in 3v3 I generally find myself Cheap Shotting Target 2 then Target 1 after Sapping Target 3. Subterfuge fades, I Shadow Dance & start to Shadow Strike. When the GCDs line up comfortably this feels smooth. But there are countless times I have 'pressed Shadow Dance' only to realize I was actually on a fraction of a GCD. Leaving me pressing Shadow Strike hopelessly for a moment or two. Another situation I have experienced GCD locked Shadow Dance as an obstacle. Is when I am trying to Sap off of a Kidney Shot or Blind. If I'm doing my rotation, I have to make sure I am 'off GCD' before I press Shadow Dance Keybind, then quickly press my Focus Sap Macro to to seamlessly Sap. In the past we could Dance->Sap smoothly while in our rotation between GCD now I have to stop my rotation to ensure I can Shadow Dance and then Sap These are the types issues I have with Dance being locked to our GCD and why I would like to see it removed from it. Thank you for reading. -Sativ Please, comment below telling me how this issue has effected you. If i If it hasn't felt like an issue at all to you. Do you feel this change would hinder you very much? Take a moment to personally explain how you feel to Celestalon himself! PLEASE, STAY ON TOPIC. BE RESPECTFUL. KEEP IT SHORT & TO THE POINT. There are many things that some of us feel could be changed or reworked regarding our favorite Class or Spec. But things like these are simple quality of life changes. Together we can improve what we've got to work with.Sativ25 Aug 18
Aug 18 glyph of pick pocket can you pretty please give us the range back? please!Ryck0 Aug 18
Aug 18 IM THE BEST ROGUE DUEL ME YOU WILL FIND OUT Ill spank your !@# and cutyourback !Cutyourback6 Aug 18