Aug 10, 2011 Am I ready to tank heroics? Got all of my current gear a little while back and then quit playing my pally before I stepped foot in a heroic as a tank. Now I decided to come back and see if it was worth a shot.Kreemo1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Holy pally weapon choice. So im still rocking normal Twilight hammer. would most of you agree that volcanospike, reforged out of hit would be a better option? More intel, over 300 more SP and only like 60 hit. upgrade i would think.Braydrel7 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Weird Ret Pally pvp gearing. So I've been seeing a decent rise in the number of pvp ret pallies who are specced ret, yet have a mix of Ret and Holy gear, usually giving them about 55k mana. Now I thought this was just a case of idiot Ret players, but lately I've been seeing people with pvp titles doing the same thing. Is this some weird pally pvp strat?Byniri3 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Rate the Paladin's Name Above You I'm bored and I see these forums all over the place, and if you want, go ahead and offer advice on how to better a said paladin. Lets change it up though, scale is x/100Celindar15 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 3v3 good ret combo I was wondering for what would be my best 3v3 combo so i can be more competive in pvpChurchills1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Why you gotta be so hard! I was like um practicing my ret rotation on like one of those little dummies in Org and it was like soooooo hhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrddddddddd. I mean omg how many buffs do I need to keep up and not overlap and then hammer of wrath is used before 20% but then at 20% and you can't have zealotry up. The hole time it seems like 5 different things are procing all while you make sure you don't go past 3 holy power. Then if you forget to reapply Inquisition you loose. AH omg it's soo hard. I don't wanna do it. I wish paladins were just judgement and seal again. KiddingDaíry11 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Shackles of Light Matches the target's speed with the speed of the (ret) paladin. Even if we use it on sprinting targets, that still only slows them to 115% run speed if we're not snared. Might need to be a constant match for the duration so we can't hit them with it while snared, then hit HoF. Also enemy only, so we don't have dual HoFs. Sort of a spirit link snare, easy to use but with a lot of tactical options. It doesn't really gap close well, but I think it would help peel and help with uptime. Duration and cooldown would of course need to be balanced. Opinions, thoughts?Jalon2 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 wheres the racial mounts? so tauren and draenei both got racial mounts. why dont belfs or dwarfs? belfs kinda do but dwarfs should probably get a ram at this point.Angelslight9 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 just admit u screwed up with ret seriously just get rid of ret the way it is now and bring back the old ret. if u think its better then ur in complete denial right now the spec is a joke. you removed all the utility and fun out of the spec and now the only thing left to do is spam CS and TV over and over and over and over again until something dies. in wrath there was so much more to do... divine storm gone, sacred shield gone, cleanse gone, judgement as a damage dealer gone, freedom stuns gone, divine sacrifice gone, art of war gone. what replaced all that? holy power. that !@#$s %^-*ing fun to use man u gotta CS 3 times then TV it makes ret so much more intuitive lemme tell ya. ret pvp is about as fun as attacking a target dummy. theres nothing to do but spam damage. its just senseless stupidity.Thebigticket33 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 @Wednesday I miss you all.Muletia1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Paladin healing I wish I had a character not in this guild so I don't go embarrassing people but...oh well. When I first started raiding I was DPS and didn't notice much about healers..they did their thing we did ours....after recruiting really well every other role however we always lacked on I decided to main my druid with a feral OS to satiate my desire for DPS. I actually do quite well for my somewhat lacking gear but I've noticed for quite some time our paladins are consistently low. Every fight, no matter what, our paladins are always the last on the meters. Last I healed in this game as a main was back in BC...and paladins wrecked the joint then...are paladins really this underpowered now healing wise? Or should I bring this up to our raid leader? This is by no means an attempt to troll or insult..I truly know nothing about paladins accept the basics... I heard after the healing change paladins were "nerfed" but I often take such things in stride as the healing change was more a triage then and an anti spam change. So mighty paladins...please inform me. Are our paladins simply lacking? Or are they truly as underpowered as they seem? Are paladins that single target oriented? Edit: And to inform further yes I know meters "don't count" but isn't there some fight that paladins can outshine the other healers on? And before you say it...yes their targets do tend to die..that's why I'm asking these questionsFervor24 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 DMCH VS King of Boars Looking to replace my king of boars easily, would DMCH be a good upgrade, or would i be better off waiting for something else?Genivan2 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 PVP Spell Pen? Do Pallies any spec need SPELL PEN? thanks in advanceZiffle2 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Dear Exorcism Change I love you. Your debuff makes me enjoy BG's again. DISCUSS/FLAMETique2 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Pursuit of Justice vs Lavawalker question I'm trying to get back into tanking again since I haven't ran instances much lately and I had a question. I was watching a video about tank speccing and the guy had said we should pick up Pursuit of Justice as a talent. When I pop my character into Ask Mr. Robot, the optimal enchant for me is Lavawalker (35 mastery and slight run speed). My question is this: should I put the two points into Pursuit of Justice and just get the +50 mastery boots enchant or should the two points be spent somewhere else and get the Lavawalker enchant?Thatacus8 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Denounce Question I have done my research on the Denounce effect (in-game tooltips, stickies and searches of this forum, ElitistJerks, etc), but I cannot find a definitive answer to my question, which is this: Does Denounce affect boss-level mobs in PVE in the current endgame content? My question encompasses both raid bosses and trivial bosses in heroics. NOTE: I understand that this is primarily a PVP-oriented talent, that endgame tanks have gear and abilities to avoid being crit, and that a 2-point investment isn't worth it for numerous reasons even if the answer is yes. The best info I have found is in a thread from this forum ( ). The comments make it clear that it works in PVE in general, but there is no specific mention of bosses. So...does Denounce affect the current endgame bosses?Almalexiax3 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Prot PvP gearing So I spent the last week or so getting a feel for prot PvP. We're not by anymeans overpowered or even on top. But I like the playstyle and being able to hold my own :) So my question is this... should I use PvE prot gear to make myself even more, erm, invincible per say, or use ret PvP gear? would I benefit more from more dodge/parry/mastery/ etc, or from resilience?Kiermor3 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Prot pvp Why was prot nerfed to the point of near unviability? Even compared to early cata prot is in a pretty bad place. I believe blizz said that they didnt much care about prots viability in pvp because a majority of prot pallies dont pvp. Of course their are alot of prot pve tanks, but I think the stat they should have looked at is out of all the paladins who pvp how many are prot. It would have been a significant amount. Also, it would be a relatively simple matter to restore prots viability. I understand that it needs to be impossible for holy paladins to have the Selfless Healer talent, but I think adding a wog cd reduction onto the prot talent Guarded by the Light would do a world of good. That way it would still be out of reach of healers. Prot could enjoy the viability it used to have, without the OPness from the lack of DR on avengers shield.Sindrì0 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Lawbringer Gauntlets... Still Dropping? Have been doing MC consecutively for over two months now in an attempt to complete my leisure/presidential dinner set. (Retro/vintage is currently in vogue, no?) 8+ Gehennas kills, and no gauntlets. Anyone able to confirm/deny 4.1+ existence?! Wrote it off as bad luck weeks ago, yet now it's getting comically frustrating. TIA!Diplomacy4 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Ret Paladin or Shadow Priest? My arena partner is out of town for a few weeks, he is a holy pally. We do well as HPally/BMHunter. I am thinking about leveling a Tauren Paladin to play as ret or going back to my 74 undead shadow priest. I hear both have solid burst and they bring utility. I am happy to hear that. Which do you think would be better for PUG BG's and 2s Arena with a HPally?Baumer4 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Cone of cold VS light of dawn cone of cold hits as soon as you cast the spell. you can run away from your target, jump and turn around in the air and cast cone and turn back to the direction you were running in, as cone hits right away, you dont haev to wait for the spell graphics to pop out fully. its 1 thing that light of dawn isnt useful in arena, but it is in rbgs (flag stack etc) but the problem is it takes too long for the heal to come out. i can still get it off in the time that im jumping in the air to when i land, but imo i think it takes too long for the spell to hit my teammates. anyone else agree?Scrimmage1 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Holy Paladin [PvP] Question This may seem like a silly question, but do max lvl holy paladins ever have a chance to go offensive? And if so, how effective are they? Denounce seems like it would be pretty good, even when trying to keep people alive. no crits = less damage I don't intend or want to be "magelike", but I would like to be able to defend myself and kill an opponent 1v1 through a combo of heals and offensive abilities if the situation called for it.Doncandy2 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 LoH and Arena Rules Question So, Arena rules state that any spell that has a 10 min or more cd on it cannot be used in arena. My question is why does that apply when a lot of us glyph so that we can have a 7 min cd to LoH?ßubblehærth3 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 Holy paladin pvp tips Alright I'm about to start using my holy spec for pvp... But the thing is i've never healed a day in my life! I was hoping that some people could actually explain the role in pvp... Exactly what spells you should be using, what i do with my holy power, how I acquire my holy power.. What to do if someone is attacking me, who do I put my beacon of light on? Feel free to add any other tips in that can help out a new holy paladin in learning pvp.Gayhem5 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 10, 2011 holy pally trinket question Hello everyone, this is my holy paladin I have a question concerning trinkets. Yes I know I need shard of woe (H) and fail of mortality (H) but for now what is on my toon is all im stuck with. (I am NOT paying 11k for Tsunami trinket) So my question is this...should I scrap Jar of Ancient Remedies for the 378 avengers of hyjal trinket (Quintessence) ? Jars gives me 515ish constant spirit with a 6k mana pot that doesnt share with any other pots. Quintessence gives me over 1k intellect every 1.5 min and a constant 383 spirit or something like that...the intellect buff lasts 25 secs (very much like a volcanic potion) So given my situation of not being able to get ANY other trinkets (yes, this week I hope to get either jaws of defeat or the one from Aly), should Quintessence replace Jars or should I just keep jars? Thanks for your feedback! Ruric0 Aug 10, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Help me with Race/class combo pls. the Title says it all. Which Alliance race should i have with a paladin? or should i make a priest?Easton8 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Tanking Hit and Exp. This is a question more along the lines of hit. Exp just happens to tag along in the same category. As of right now my hit is at a whopping 1.61% and my exp is at 12 ( with SoT glyph ) I have built my tank around Xayton's Tank Guide just about 100%. The part that I really have a question about is this : Hit and Exp; You honestly don't need it. If your gear has it great. If gear drops with it and it's and upgrade, great. You don't need to go out of your way to get it (I.E gems and enchants). With Vengeance you will be generating more then enough threat. Even with the new changes to how CS works (No HP on missed/dodge/parry) Hit/Exp are not required stats. They will make your rotation less random but you will still be able to generate more then enough threat. Is having the % of hit that I do still nothing to worry about? Some mobs ( AoE mobs ) it seems rather difficult to get / keep aggro because I do miss sometimes and we all know how some dps like to pad recount with hitting everything under the sun at once. And the reason I'm asking as a new thread is so that this doesn't get lost in all the responses that are on Xayton's thread ;-) Thanks for any beneficial information.Manicpally2 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Ret having trouble with feral? I've been pvping a lot lately as feral and I expected to have a lot of trouble with ret pallies because of their high armor and good off heals and multiple CDs but every time I encounter one I easily get the better of them as long as I can cyclone them and LoS when they pop wings so hammer of fairness doesn't 3 hit me. Am I just seeing really bad pallies and I should expect to have trouble with them later on or are all of you guys having trouble with ferals?Bovey24 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Best gear for a RET/HOLY lvl 78?? Any ideas one whats the best setup for me? I know Im going to get better gear at higher levels but what can I start at now and works towards for end game. I lvl using dungeons and raids so items from any instance would be the best bet for my style of gameplay. THANKS A TON!!Alagaz1 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Question about Ret rotation Okay, so i've read alot about people doing ret wrong and thats why it dps can seem low, etc etc so I wanna make sure im doing this right. While CS is on cooldown, as well as judgment, and you have no procs, am i supposed to be just autoattacking waiting for cooldowns? or hardcasting exo or something. I feel like theres some filler im missing in the downtime of the big hitters.Rilo7 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Ret. Pally DPS Help I need some help from my fellow pallies. Can someone please audit my reforging and see if I have done this correctly? I am only doing 6K in dungeons and it is quite frustrating when I have done 9K on the targeting dummy. Perhaps it is lag or perhaps I am not spec'd, gemmed, glyphed, or reforged correctly once again. Thanks!Cardargo8 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Worgen paladins? Why not? They were humans and they have priests, there has to be some paladins in gilneas before the curse.Leirseanz34 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Paladins with staffs? Was just wondering why cant paladins use staffs? All the other healing classes can and it would make sense if holy pallies could use healer staffs.Boiledyogurt5 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Able to tank heroics? Well, first off i know that im not the best paladin but i can tank normal cata dungeons, and im looking to tank heroic cata dungeons, not za/zg. My avrage ilevel is about 352, because i have some pvp gear in my inv, anything will help- such as a new pally tank spec.Ulikeamom4 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Should i do it? Well im one dungeon away from getting 2200 valor and buying my t12 legs (WOOT.) Should I get the legs and break my four set bonus or what do you suggest?Jústicar7 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Why Why does Paladin's forum smell like perfumes?Htrsgonahate31 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Thinking about going Holy My main spec has always been protection. My second was Ret but I rarely used ret even out when doing dailies, I just started to do Ret for the fun of it in instances for a break and cause i wanted to do stuff while in a queue. Now, what makes me want to go Holy is I won T12 pants in BH, I been slowly gathering healing gear just incase and almost every time I see a paladin with T11(back when it was top tier) or T12 they were holy. On my realm no matter where I look the only paladins I ever see are the holy ones, and they are pretty geared either in Arena PvP gear or top Tier gear. So, I'm figuring out that healing is fun for a paladin and thought I would give it a shot, since I did love healing on my druid.Xanik7 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Proposed Ret Paladin Changes for PvP While I understand that there will always be "that group" of posters and players that will bash something for the most minute detail. Let me just say that this post is intended to point out some mechanical issues within the Ret Pally pvp spec that I feel could be addressed, and some ideas to correct the issues. Also yes; my arena rating is low...sadly...but I don't tailor my teams; I play with my friends and enjoy doing so. But I've played this class for a long time and am actually quite good with it. Please comment fairly; additional changes; errors in a rationalization, modifications, general thoughts. Insane burst, but easily countered: Ret Paladins can do some insane damage with Avenging Wrath + Sanctified Wrath, however Avenging Wrath is too vulnerable to dispel and CC, and are we not left with adequate sustained damage inbetween CD's. It would be unfair to expect Blizzard to make AW undispellable. Nor do I feel that change would address our underlying damage issues. Proposed Idea; Change the Sanctified Wrath Talent: Sanctified Justice: Increased critical strike chance of Hammer of Wrath by 33/66/100% (up from 20/40/60), Reduces the CD of Avenging Wrath by 20/40/60 seconds, increases Judgement damage by 66/133/200%. (Use of HoW during AW removed) Keeps the CD Mod for AW. Removes the HoW mechanic to AW which constituted all our burst. Crit chance buff on HoW as the ability now only becomes available on low health targets; retains ability to be a strong 'finisher.' Judgement damage increase to make the move worthwhile again (instead of a filler move). A 200% increase to Judgement would put the damage somewhere between CS and TV, on a 7 second CD that seems fair. Additionally, since it is holy damage and buffed by inquisition can provide solid burst when timed properly. Increase to sustained damage but nerfs the overall burst of CDs. Also keeps Judgement buff to the Ret Tree.Antipova8 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Threat Management. Am I doing somethin wrong? Let me preface this by saying: This is my alt. I raid with him on alt nights, and a lot of the gem/enchant choices I've made for him are because they were either cheaper or more convenient when I made them, and/or I just haven't gotten around to fixing them yet. Hopefully that will take care of the people who are just going to look at armory and say "wtf are you doing?", because yes, I know, some things aren't optimal. Now on to the actual question: Why is it that I keep pulling so much threat and ripping aggro away from tanks? It seems to be happening most against my guild's paladin main tank, and I'm trying to figure out what the deal is. I generally, to start a fight, go in and build up 3 charges of holy power, then start using cooldowns. I've found that if I do it that way, I can generally maximize my dps output. However: It seems that as soon as I blow Wings, trinket, and Zealotry, it's almost guaranteed that I'm going to get aggro, and likely have to bubble to save my own !@#. Even salving myself doesn't seem to help. I've tried waiting even longer before blowing cooldowns, but when I do that, my dps suffers pretty dramatically, and then there's still a risk I might pull aggro. Am I doing something wrong, or is this normal for Ret? I know threat was supposed to be a bigger deal in Cata and all that, but when I see arcane mages and such blowing every cooldown they have and pulling 30k dps at the start of a fight, and I'm only pushing ~25k max but I'm the one getting aggro, it makes me wonder what's going on. Again: I salv myself too just to be sure. It doesn't ever seem to help.Liodren20 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Paladin PVP idea. Rapture: 35 yd range 30% Mana 2 minute Cool Down Causes the targeted friendly player to be teleported to a previously placed marker removing all fear, disorient, and incapacitate effects on the target. Cannot be cast on self. One of the bigger issues affecting rets in pvp at the moment is the lack of a peel. Giving an offensive utility to Rets is something often resisted by developers because of the Paladin kit. So here we have a suggestion taking into account both issues. Layam11 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Just an idea about ret dps. - Reduce the cooldown on crusader strike to 3 seconds - Reduce the cooldown on divine storm to 3 seconds. (they still share a cooldown) - Make divine storm generate a holy power if it hits two or more mobs This fixes clunky rotation and aoe dps This is basically working just like prot worksXile5 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Dear Dev Team, Regarding Ret Hey dev team, I was wondering what is your view on retri spec for paladins. I can see a lot of complaining but I really want to see what you have to say for it and what are your future plans for us for pvp / pve.Ezkieo1 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Thinking about going Holy My main spec has always been protection. My second was Ret but I rarely used ret even out when doing dailies, I just started to do Ret for the fun of it in instances for a break and cause i wanted to do stuff while in a queue. Now, what makes me want to go Holy is I won T12 pants in BH, I been slowly gathering healing gear just incase and almost every time I see a paladin with T11(back when it was top tier) or T12 they were holy. On my realm no matter where I look the only paladins I ever see are the holy ones, and they are pretty geared either in Arena PvP gear or top Tier gear. So, I'm figuring out that healing is fun for a paladin and thought I would give it a shot, since I did love healing on my druid.Xanik0 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Holy Pally Looms Is using cloth heirlooms for holy pally healing okay? Or should i really grind the jp for the mail ones?Mellamojosh3 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Low Level Gear Rolls - Holy I am leveling as Holy, as I mainly like to level through dungeons, and have an etiquette question about gear rolls. There doesn't seem to be a lot of mail gear for the Holy spec in dungeons, so is it acceptable for me to just roll need on cloth/leather? Should I make that intention clear, or is it just accepted that it will happen? Other classes I have leveled are straightforward, and the gear is always there, but this is a little different.Anikka5 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Somebody Please Champion Retribution I see a whole lot of people coming here and saying Ret is broken or subpar DPS and I see a lot of people defending them saying how they're around average DPS, have great burst damgae, and have great utility when played by a skillful player. What I don't see is anyone defending Ret and saying it's the greatest and bragging about it and making questionable or outlandish claims. So either people who frequent the Paladin forums are thoroughly grounded in reality and possess a great deal of humility or there's truly a problem with Retribution. The darn shame is most players will never be skilled enough to get decent numbers from a Ret Paladin and the vast majority of players will not look at utility, burst damage, or all-around activity but rather DPS; and in that department Ret is sorely lacking except in the hands of the best players. So unless someone comes in here and says something along the lines of "Ret's so easy, I just have to hit 4 keys and I do way more damage than my overgeared hunter or mage" I'm just gonna have to wait for the next hotfix.Negrito12 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Ret Pally Help Hello fellow Paladins, I was wondering if somebody could help me out here and check if my reforging, gemming, enchants etc. are all correct. Thanks in advance!Kays3 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Dear Blizzard, please give ret paladins more viable spells besides CS and the 2 minute CD burst. kthnx - Sincerely ÇavemannÇavemann7 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Why do you think... that Paladins should do as much damage as a class that can ONLY do damage? Being a hybrid with multiple hand spells and offheals, I am fine with doing less damage than a hunter, mage, or rogue. If you want to be at the top of meters, you should probably reroll.Propulsion5 Aug 9, 2011
Aug 9, 2011 Holy paladin 2p worth it? Maybe I just didn't look hard enough, but I was unable to find a post about this. I have the hand drops from Lord Rhyolith, but tonight bought the t12 hands so I could get my 2set bonus. However, I am at 16.57pct haste before judgement. Is there a softcap on haste and am I over it? Also were the hands worth it, or should I not worry about the holy paladin 2p bonus until I can get the shoulders/head?Damiien5 Aug 9, 2011