Jun 3, 2011 The "Do you remember thread?": Ret Version - Do you remember 1 and 5 minute blessings? - Do you remember SP stacking? - Do you remember no mana regen? - Do you remember Alliance only paladins? - Do you remember CS 31pt talent? - Do you remember Judgements consuming seals? - Do you remember no STR>>SP conversion? - Do you remember tier 6 spell power bonuses? - Do you remember relying on a shaman for raid viability? - Do you remember Seal of Blood? - Do you remember seal twisting? - Do you remember no DS, TV, Exo, HW? at last but not least... - Do you remember doing 3.1k on brutallis and topping wow web stats dps charts? I know I do :DArpe0 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 PVP ret glyphs Yes, i have 0 glyphs on this toon, i thought it would be best to wait until level cap i have been looking through the glyphs and some have been confusing on which to grab as ret pvp. im thinking of making a random bg/fun pvp ret spec and a super serious arena spec. my question is what glyphs to take for serious arena.Oleitie3 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Divine Storm and Zealotry Was thinking since DS gives 1 charge of HP if it hits 4 or more targets, it would be nice if that mechanic transferred to Zealotry. If Zeal is up and DS is used, 4 or more Targets are hit, it grants 3 HP instead of the 1. Just a thoughtNilbus20 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Silly Ret Question Rather than do my homework I thought I'd ask here: If as a Ret pally every attack I use, melee or ranged, is a spell, what would happen if I stacked Spell Power? And what stat would I skip?Negrito2 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Pally or DK as you see i have a dk already. And was considering making a pally as well. I have all heirlooms so lvling and such should be quick. But before i do i had a few questions about the class first. 1. i want to tank mostly which is the better tank? especially as far as aoe aggro? 2. I will do pvp but right now its gonna be like 75% tanking 25% pvp which char will i have the best luck in pvp with? Pallys seem to have alot of tools for survival! I see massive complaint threads in both dk and pally forums so it makes me wonder why. Ive read the patch notes and both classes still seem okay.. maybe not outstanding. but still viable and fun. so why all the complaining?Autumnn8 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 LF Macro Whiz- Aura Management I was wondering if there is a macro option for management of auras. For example, when I mount, Crusader aura also procs. Whenever I'm not mounted, Ret aura is active. Any ideas?Dudemeister0 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 post 4.1 tanking, threat issues Alright so maybe I'm high or something, but is anyone else having threat issues since this patch came out? It also doesn't help that the all knowing dps in my groups don't use focus macros. Swolefactory11 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Holy paladin suggestions I had an idea for Holy paladin changes that might make it more interesting. -Holy radiance has no cooldown, It now uses Holy power charges. -Holy light/Holy shock/flash of light always grant 1 HP -Holy light healing reduced by 20% -Light of Dawn, 6 second cooldown, heals 5 (6 glyphed) targets in a cone in front of the caster. Grants 1 HP. -Mastery, Now increases all Holy Power healing effects by 20%, add 1.5 per mastery. -Beacon of light change, critical healing effects now grant a shield for 30% of the healing done. I think this would finally allow paladin healers to answer the call for raid healing. It would also allow Holy Power a tad more interesting to use. As for beacon of light, i just kind of added that in there since the current one needs to go. Beacon will still make us want to heal a certain target, but will not limit our use of aoe healing (which I believe is where the current one is holding us back). Anyways, Im making this cuz im bored, but would love to hear any other creative ways to make us stronger aoe healers.. and less mind numbing to play :P Velcat2 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 How are paladins doing lately? Curious how each spec is handling in PvE? I haven't played in a few months and was thinking of leveling my paladin from 80-85. I enjoy tanking the most and may consider ret/holy as an Offspec. However, my warrior is also 85 and prot. So my next question would be, did the prot playstyle change coming into cata? Or is it still similar? Also, I've heard up and down things about holy and really haven't kept up with where ret is. Any info would be appreciated.Falconn5 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Evaluate my Holy Pally. Hi everyone, I'd like some feedback on my spec and gemming. I know there are some enchants and gear I have to get and replace and I'm working on that. Still doing Deepholm quests for the Therazane tabard. Are Last Word and Blessed Life useful at all? I admit that I've only done 11/12 on my priest and I can see that Blessed Life might keep proccing on certain encounters but I'm leery of actually taking points out of better talents. Minister4 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 I need some help..... I for the life of me cannot hold aggro i just dont get it. I have righteous fury active i open the pull with avengers shield. Then as soon as i get the first mob i throw hammer of the righteous then pop consecration. Then when hammer is off cooldown i pop it again rinse repeat etc. I cant hold aggro and i get obliterated if anyone can help please do. On my warrior i dont struggle at all.... but id prefer to play my pally :) thanks guysStonebody10 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Sentry-Totem-esque Paladin Community? What do you guys think? I'm thinking we should start a community within the Paladin-community similar to that of the Sentry Totem over at the Shaman forums (those guys are really nice). What do you guys think? We can come up with a name for ourselves, possible vote on it.Lapelle48 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Holy CC chained It's a huge problem now and there's nothing we can do but bubble or trinket and hide behind a pillar. CC has actually been NERFED to 8 seconds without DR. I'm just wondering why this is an issue in cata. There's always been CC but why do we really feel it in cata?Stellarum3 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Question About Retribution Inquisition Usage Hi guys I'm a new Cata Ret and after reading the stickied Ret guide and the referenced EJ thread, I'm still a bit troubled about Inquisition usage. My questions are: 1. At the start of a fight, do I use my first 3HP cap on an Inquisitioin(or my first Divine Purpose proc before I manage to get to 3HP)? If no, how and when should I use it for its first apply? 2. Do I only reapply it when I have 3HP? or is it OK to do it at 1 or 2 HP too? ThanksMacpala6 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Overwhelmed I picked up healing again and I haven't done it seriously since BC. I tried healing some of the cata heroics and I can say that I was really overwhelmed by the choices for heals I had available to me, I wiped the party well over several times before going back to ret. My question is, is there really a need for that many options when 3-4 would suffice. I am used to only using HL,FoL,and HS; I am being geniune when I say I think it shouldn't be extremely hard for someone to pick up a healer spec late in the game and with some decent gear heal a heroic with ease.Seiryukotsu5 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Holy power suggestion As for prot and ret, get rid of mana, instead you generate HolyPower from taking, dealing damage like Rage from Warriors or, when you use an ability you generate HolyPower like Runic Power from Death Knights, either works for me. This way, all plate wearers have unique resource for their power. As for holy, leave the mana. And get rid of the HolyPower. I have always hated this because Holy Pallies are the healers that has a "combo points". ZZzZ yeah? no? maybe? Edit: I want this rage/runic power bar colored in Gold.Boybawang2 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Is Ret fun? I am a Holy and Prot paladin, and have been since Wrath. Recently I have been getting increasingly bored with Prot and am wondering, is Ret fun to play? I know how it compares to other classes in DPS but is the rotation fun and interesting? Are their any serious flaws and weaknesses with Ret compared to other DPS?Ispamheals6 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Anyone else playing MW2? Because I just got double kill headshot longshot, yea i about jumped with joy, with the Famas on a standard definition TV =PFiremai2 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Dwarf Paladin mount With the introduction of race specific paladin mounts for both Draenei and Tauren some in the Dwarf community questioned why we did not also get our own specific mount. The argument was that Dwarves belong to the same paladin order as humans "The knights of the silver hand" therefore they would ride the same mount as the humans. However this misses one glaring mistake, as a dwarf i stand at around 109 to 130 cm my horse is a proper horse size in fact probably larger than your average horse as it is breed specifically for battle. Now unless i carry around a ladder everywhere i go there is no way i am going to be able to get on top of that horse by myself.So please blizz i am sure you could get the knight of the silver hand to start breeding battle ponies fit for a stout hero of the alliance such as myselfFhain18 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Basic Tank Stats I know there's really defined Tanking stickies out there. But I'm just getting started and I basically just want to know what stats I should try shooting for to do heroics. Because, no gear I have now, or will probably have for a little bit is much worth enchanting. At first I was told to make sure my Hit was capped and my expertise should be at least 26. but then someone told me Dodge and parry were more important than being hitcapped. So basically I just need to know what I should shoot for, to start doing heroics and get the gear that's worth socketing and enchanting.Redcloud21 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Seal of Truth vs. New Seal of Righteousness Do I smell seal dancing on the horizon? Seriously, though, I don't even know why Ret needs mana regen... I never run out of mana as ret. Prot is a little different, though my mana will last me through a rough and heavy fight, but sometimes I need to immediately jump into the next fight without a chance to drink. Normally a mana pot does the job unless I had to use an armor pot without exiting combat. But most of those situations seem to be in ZA/ZG heroics where the fights involve more volatile situations and NPCs in much higher numbers. Raids are more predictable, and most of my CDs for survival don't use up much mana. It's keeping TPS on unexpectedly large groups that gets me. I don't really foresee a real need to use SoR, however, I'm probably going to give it a try and see how it affects regen in crazy fights. Think I'll be seal dancing much? What about holy? remember when you weren't so geared and had a hard time managing CDs (and would tend to forget about DP)? You think seal dancing will happen in the new content?Paintrainwoo11 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Holy paladin mana increase I am extremely displeased about the second mana increase for holy paladins single target heals that is coming up in the next patch. I want to hear others opinions on this second nerf to our mana cost for healing spells.Exz2 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Paladin's need a buff of some kind ive been playing arena, and i found out that paladins are not even close to cc potential as other classes. Rebuke is good but it should have some range to it to level the playing field. For example a druid can just turn into cat form, run, cyclone, and do whatever he does and run circles around u all day while the paladin (holy) will have holy radiance to catch up with him but the cool down time is way to long to even match, he would have ran 3x the amount away from you and have the chance to cast 2-3 spells or more and then do the same exact thing again. There are lots of other things paladins lack in competition with other classes too but I don't want to sound like paladins should be OP but i think paladins should be a little more mobile in their cc ability's pvp wise. PvE is another story, it seems like paladins are great for pve and i dont have no problem with it.Vadum0 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Holy PvP Sticky? Hi guys, I have a half-assed healing set that I've collected from the different randoms and heroics I've done, and I've had fun with my healing offspec in dungeons when I get bored of tanking, but I've also wanted to try out my hand at Holy PvP for a while. As it is I'm currently gathering mats to build the Ornate set (minus the helm, of course, I'll be using Engineer goggles for that), and have been looking for a Holy PvP sticky since I have exactly 0 experience healing in a PvP environment, or more accurately, next to 0 experience in a PvP environment period. To my dismay, however, I find absolutely no Holy PvP sticky in the Pally forums. So I'm wondering if there's anyone here that can direct me to a decent up-to-date source of information for Holy PvP? Thank you.Argentium15 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Holy Light and Beacon lol Beacon of Light can no longer be dispelled. In addition, it now transfers 100% of the heal from Holy Light, but still 50% of the heal from other spells. Amazing, this is like 1 step forward and 2 steps back - Have a chocolate Donut .... without the chocolate! Now devine light or flash @ 100% would be fantastic - i dont think ive ever used holy light in a time of desperation when healing :(Totèm22 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 How to fix pvp legitimately All: -Blessing of freedom undispellible for half of the duration -Divine protection is usable while feared, stunned, polymorphed, and confused/blinded -Judgement while seal of justice is active provides a instantaneous root similar to unnerfed chains of ice and is prevented by any kind of root immunity Holy: -[ability] half duration half cooldown repentance -increase the range of rebuke to 15 yds -holy radiance is usable while stunned -stolen wings increases the mana cost of spells cast by 15%. dispelled wings provides an undispellible HoT equal to 20% of amounts healed. rolls Prot: I don't play it Ret: -Long Arm of the Law increases speed by 55% -Wings has 70% dispel resistance ---or on a counter note dispel reduces duration by 15-25% per cast and cannot be stolen ---an additional note is that instead of the above, HoW deals 2-2.5x damage when wings is dispelled and is available immediately -rebuke range to 10 yds -Selfless healer redesigned. WoG heals 15/30% extra healing as a HoT, when used to heal others reduces the cooldown of Avenging wrath by 10 sec -cooldown of Sacred shield reduced by 20 sec or increased healing is an undispellible buff that lasts a minimum of 8 sec These are my thoughts derived from my observations frustrations and over all fondness of the class. Each change is meant to be viewed seperately from another and observations that all of these changes together are OP will be frowned upon.Deliciously0 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 rate my ret patch notes divine purpose-100% instead of 15%, but put an internal Cd on it art of war- instead of 20% on auto atatck, make it proc off of crusader strike, but put an internal CD sanc wrath- remove the use of HoW at all times during AW, but make it undispellable. Add a talent similiar to an arms war old sudden dead that allows the use of HoW regardless of targets health Buff long arm of law to maybe 60% Have judgement apply seal of justiceEatmyhammer4 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Ret I know you guys are not as great as you were in wrath but you are not completely useless. Trust me you guys have been through a lot. Yes you could get buffed some but remember you could be this way Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 To all the Ret whiners (PVE) I like to read the forums during lunch and keep see alot of complaining aboutthe state of ret and well i think it's the best it's ever been i'm doing 17-20k on most boss fights . I still need to lose the gloves and get my tier pieces but am very satisfied with where were at right now . As Mr. gump would say "that's all i got to say about that" . Have a great day fellow rets .Tingwa21 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 What is your favorite Gear Set and Why? IF you so wish to do so post in the set if you have it as well. For me after finally completing it I enjoy this RP AQ gear set. This is an XP-OFF character and I do have every set item you can obtain right now at 60. But when I wish to AFK in <insert location> I like wearing this. Mainly because putting this together has taken me longer and was more enjoyable than any other set I have collected. Instead of equipping for extra bling factor I use my Dark Edge which matches the theme. How about you folks?Aléxåndros0 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Ret Exorcism Exorcism for Ret has so much ability to be amazing situational ability but it is by far the most underused. Especially in PvP where a chance based ability procing off auto attacks can never be sustained at any reasonable capacity. The fact that Retribution Paladins have two procs both completely chance based (Divine Purpose and Art of War) means that we often have lackluster downtime in our rotations. Exorcism itself is noted for this, being one of our few ranged nukes it has such a clear place in a Rets rotation in a PvP environment. I would highly favor seeing Art of War being changed to a gaurenteed proc every 15 seconds (or so, thats just napkin math) similar to the tier 1 Frost Mage talent Early Frost. This would accomplish two goals, first it would bring some more sustainability to a notably luck based Ret Rotation, even in PvE the inability to coordinate sustainable dps across a fight although minimized by the fact that one is consistently auto attacking, often still shines through as lubriciously luck based. Dps can often fluctuate 4-5k between attempts while pulling the exact same quality of play. In PvP as well the fact that as a class that has clear trouble keeping uptime on a target, having one of our core abilities proc off of auto attacks is foolish, not to mention it is a ranged ability. Which is something that Ret's with our inability to slow or maintain high levels of melee contact with a target need to use more than anything. Because of our inability to get the auto swings off to proc Exorcism in PvP anywhere close to what our proper sustained PvP dps requires means that we are always put at a severe disadvantage. Giving Exorcism to Rets as a constantly timed ability would not increase our burst capability with cooldowns, and would infact reduce the chance for a Ret to have insane lucky burst. When I proc Exorcism off three subsequent auto attacks I chuckle at the fate and direction of my rotation while I rock someone with nothing more than a single button, it is a very hard hitting ability and being able to proc back to back is sometimes laughably powerful. The largest disadvantage to this is that it would change the value of haste for Ret, however as already our least appreciated stat I think it is clear that haste for Rets needs an entire overhaul. Sanctity of Battle is an interesting idea for a talent but is not usable with current game mechanics, but thats a story for another day. Although I personally feel that the fact that it would change the haste value for Rets is not an issue I can see why some would object. To this I appeal that the Art of War proc rate could be 5x the current auto attack timer that the Ret Paladin has. This would give the exact same theoretical value of Exorcism procs currently granted by a 20% chance on auto attack swings, but would provide the proc while not actually attacking the target. Thus Giving Rets the sustained damage that they need as well as the ranged damage utility. TL;DR Exorcism should be reliable and consistent for Ret Paladins and not require melee contact to proc.Hotformed7 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Inquisition Refresh Prior to obtaining my 4 piece I would only refresh my inquisition at 3 holy power under about 6 seconds (alerted via clcret). Upon obtaining my 4 piece though and reading a post by Redcape stating that inquisition should be refreshed under 4 seconds at "*any*" holy power amount I am now at odds with myself. Last night on Heroic Magmaw (obtained my H Worm-Breaker :D) I decided to give that a go resulting in a marginal dps flux from previous nights. Bottom Line: Should I continue refreshing at under 6 seconds with 3 HP or under 4 seconds with any amount of HP? Valgus4 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 3, 2011 Prot Pvp: Duels vs DKS Prot vs frsot DKs didnt you always imgaine how this would turn out haah :DDurãth9 Jun 3, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Bring Back Sacred Shield as a Spell From a Semi-skilled Holy Pally I know that our skill cap is only like 2400 while other heals skill caps are 3k. While im locked out im not giving any support to my team mates, while Druids HoTs are ticking shamans earth shields are working and priest Have there bubble and hots. By giving this back i feel like my team mates could survive my lock outs easier i can still be somewhat useful instead of just waiting for my global to be done. Even though we dont have a "real" CC we will have a higher skill cap and i think even out the classesShårp2 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Prime Glyph priority for Ret PvP? I am lvl 70 so I only get 2 primary glyphs. For a long time I've been using Crusader Strike and Templar's Verdict for my Prime glyphs, but I just replaced CS with Exorcism and it seems to be giving me better results so far. Also, once 4.2 releases, I plan on respeccing into Selfless Healer and replacing my TV glyph with WoG. Can anyone else weigh in though?Dudemeister0 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Any good Art of War macros? I want to make a macro button that's for casting Exorcism when Art of War procs but doesn't start a full cast if i miss it or mess up the timing. The simplest way to do this seems to be: /cast Exorcism /stopcasting but i've heard that this doesn't work very well because it interupts your melee timer. Does anyone know of a good way to do this?Smackybear22 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 make it on a pvp server! lol, this never gets old. just thought i post it.Jinnzo4 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Dev Water Cooler - Talent Trees A few interesting tidbits from GC's post on talent trees ( On what is working/worked ... What isn't working/didn't work: ... ... In general, sounds pretty happy with the choice required in specs (Although not true of all specs) and the value of mastery (although again not for all specs, holy pallies might hope for some help there).Lesaberisa5 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 any all paladin guilds any server?Krustofsky9 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Holy Radiance Range Something I saw repeatedly requested for the addon HudMap is a range for holy radiance. Well, it has now been added! It will show you an 8 and 20 yard range so you can see who HR will hit. For those unfamiliar with hudmap, it will show you the location of players "on top" of your screen, imagine the player dots on the minimap being stretched over your screen. There are various modules that add additional functionality, one of them being AoE Healing which contains the HR range marker. Other features of HudMap include range markers for boss encounters. You can download HudMap here: and Cata Encounters for HudMap here: Also, you can see an example of what HR looks like here: Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Ret PvP Hi, I'm going Ret for Pvping and need some help. What glyphs should I use and what talents? (First Ret Pally ever btw)Blite3 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Tankadin Questions So far i only managed to get up to 140k life and well not so evened out block/dodge/parry. I've only got the valor gear to start working on, and perhaps the troll lands, however I'm not fully sure i'm ready for trolls yet, and surely not ready for raids obviously, i was wondering if you could point out things that i should work on the most. Stats mostly, unless you can point out new gear that a BS can make for upgrades. I'm looking for friendly advice, not continual pushes toward maintankadin.comGrezela10 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 "Check Out My Character Now" I reforged, re-enchanted, re-spec'd, and re-gemmed. Does my toon appear ready 2 tank 5-man heroics? Thank you 4 reading & responding.Stompsmob15 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Tyrande's Doll would it be worth farming it and replacing one of my two trinkets with it? and if so, which one?Tennanse8 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Divine Storm vs. Crusader Strike Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum, and although my level doesn't show it, I've been a Warrior & a Paladin on and off since I began playing WoW way back on Day 3 (I'm not a Day 1 guy but I'm close, haha!) Usually, I don't ask others for advice, I just go with what I feel is best and what I'm most comfortable with, and that's done me alright so far. However, at the moment I'm currently stumped. I'm not seeing the point of Divine Storm at all now that it shares a CD with Crusader Strike. CS does waaay more DMG when you spec right and with Seal of Command you can hit three targets with it as long as SoR is on. Although I prefer Seal of Truth, I always use SoR on mutliple mob pulls and that seems to still do a lot more DMG than Divine Storm has ever done. I'm wondering if it's just my level and I just need a ton of haste to balance it out; but I don't think so because no matter what DS still going to share a CD with CS and I don't see Divine Storm doing more DMG than Crusader Strike anytime soon. Can anyone help me here? If someone can show me something I'm missing that makes DS more viable then please let me know, I'm more than willing to listen and learn. Thank you all and have a good one. Edit - I know I'm currently Prot but I play Ret as well.Croaton7 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Question trying to get this pally geared for raiding and right now I'm facing a problem with hit and I've been told to reforge some of my stats to hit, but I don't know which one to reforge on? Please help.Crunchs5 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Trinkets...o sweet trinkets I have been switching back and forth between 2 trinkets. I am stuck as to which is more useful. I am keeping my 359 Fall of Mortality but should I run 372 Jar or DMC: Tsumoni?Crusier2 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Retribution rotation Hey just back into WoW and I need some help with a ret rotation. There's a lot of new moves and I just don't know what to use or when to use it. Faldir2 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 I am gradually more unwilling to tank Every patch has obscene changes and now I understand how some people can get so passionate about getting nerfed. Word of Glory might have been *slightly* overpowered, but now its completely worthless, I cant remember the last time I cast it. but this: ... What? Now we have a button that allows us to pretend like we have another defensive cooldown that lasts 10 seconds? RNG might put us at never blocking while its up but we had to remember to hit that button every 30 seconds! So you're trying to give us more buttons to press? how about fixing us in a positive way, every thing I have seen has made me sigh and play my mage more. TLDR: Word of Glory Nerf and now Holy Shield nerf with absolutely zero positive changes makes me want to re-roll. Roquen22 Jun 2, 2011
Jun 2, 2011 Help with Ret Dps Hi guys, I am hoping you can help me out with some pointers/tips, anything at all to help get my dps up. I just joined a new guild last night and got a chance to go along on a BOT 25 man heroic raid. On the first boss halfus my damage was around the 15k-15.5k mode. I was only dpsing on the boss, and for the most part was not dropping any aoe spells because the one time I tried I died extremely fast. After several wipes we gave up, but a member began to harass me about my dps. As far as mele, we had myself, 3 frost dk's 2 blood dk tanks, and a prot paladin tank. ALL OF THEM ARE GEARED TO THE TEETH 360ilvl +. The frost dk's and the prot paladin were doing 20k+ The raid member began to say that I was doing less damage than a tank, to which I responded, "hey this is my first raid with the guild, and I am still in blues, you guys are all in ilvl 359 or better!!!" He said "so what, you're a dps, a tank should not out dps you." Is he right??? The tanks name is Sinsowa, take a look at his gear and tell me if I should have been doing more dps than him. He was dropping consecrate and the frost DK's were Howling wind every chance they could get. I think their damage was so high because they were AOE'ing. Also since I was doing so badly, I upgraded a couple items. At the time of the raid I was in Chestplate of Hubris instead of Elementium Deathplate, I had Fury of Angerforge instead of Darkmoon Card Hurricane, and I had Circle of bone instead Band of the Gurubashi Beserker. So my questions are: 1. For the gear I had was my dps ok, or was it low? 2. What can I do to improve my dps rotation wise, spec wise? any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks! Unstpbubble61 Jun 2, 2011