Oct 18 Paladin Class Hall Upgrade Tier 1? Should I get Light's Favor or Blessing of Kings?Corpak1 Oct 18
Oct 18 Mythic+ spec It seems that AoE is king in mythics. To that end, this is the spec I've settled on for doing mythics (must more normal spec when I occasionally raid.) Any suggested changes?Kythiara2 Oct 18
Oct 18 Holy paladin help Hey guys, Just wondering how you're healing? Is anyone using healbot? Vuhdo? Any feed back will be much appreciatedHolyparty9 Oct 18
Oct 18 We did it fam Crusade shall remain! Eventually I feel it might have to be changed due to haste hitting a plateau, but for now at least selecting a lvl 100 talent over not selecting it will remain a dps increase lol! ...Bigblackqt3 Oct 18
Oct 18 cannot completre quest aid to the fallen will not let me cleanse palidansSaphiria2 Oct 18
Oct 18 New to Holy Pally, what Beacon? We have EN heroic on Farm pretty much and we are now starting to gear up our alts. I decided to pick Hpally and am curious about which Beacon to pick for the last talent. I see a lot of people on logs take Beacon of Faith, is this stronger than Lightbringer? cause everywhere I read i see the go to raid beacon is Lightbringer Any tips would be greatBrotool15 Oct 18
Oct 17 Holy Paladin Aura Question So I am just curious about some things related to holy paladin healing that I wanted to run by you guys. First of all, just out of curiosity why does no one run aura of sacrifice in raids. If I'm wrong and this is common please correct me. But the highest amount of healing I've ever seen a pally do was on heroic Cenarius and he used blessing of sacrifice. I use recount to track my healing and during this fight the pally was consistently parsing at 400-450k HPS using this aura. When he popped his aura his healing jumped to about 700k HPS. I should have saved the log, but I don't use Warcraft logs and I didn't think about screencapping at the time. Just looking for some feedback from the paladins who have progressed pretty far and their thoughts on this aura and it's strengths/weaknesses in a raid?Bestow3 Oct 17
Oct 17 Is item level REALLY king for Prot relics? One of our artifact traits, faith's armor, gives us a 30% increase to armor for all damage taken under 40% health. Needless to say, this is a huge buff to our effective health as paladins, and is one of the primary reasons we are destined to have lower health pools. With all three relics giving an additional rank to faith's armor, we could see ourselves with 60% increased armor under 40% health. I feel like this giant boost to effective health is worth quite a bit more than the bonus stamina that we get from having a higher item level relic (assuming you at least have an 840 version of a faith's armor relic). Especially when we consider the secondary stats on Truthguard are literally the two worst stats, mastery and critical strike. Since Truthguard doesn't have haste or versatility, and the stamina gains are likely less effective than the additional 10% armor, should we really be replacing relics with the highest item level and more or less disregarding the potential additional ranks to faith's armor? I haven't done the math (maybe I will), but I think we should rethink how we approach our relic slots.Cronopally15 Oct 17
Oct 17 Monk vs Paladin Healing Hello all. I have a quick question I would like to run by the rest of the community. I'm currently part of a Casual Progression guild and have both a monk and paladin healer. I came into Legion wanting to be a MW, but after leveling my paladin as my alt, I find that enjoy both classes equally (which kinda brings me here to you guys). My healing team currently consists of a Disc Priest (they are pretty firm on staying disc), Shaman, Druid and a Monk (me). I feel as we're a little overkill on AoE/Raid healing and lacking in terms of tank/single target healing. So far we haven't had any deaths or hit any walls because our tanks were dying and I don't foresee that to be an issue. However, I would like to be prepared and well rounded. My question is, would it be worth it to gear up my paladin and sub out my monk in the long run?Panjier7 Oct 17
Oct 17 Any good holy pvp guides? Im looking to learn holy so can anyone point me to a good guide?Moonfrrosst2 Oct 17
Oct 17 What trinkets are good? Just wondering what trinkets in EN I should be bonus rolling for. I don't really know what our BiS is. No guides that I can find are saying which trinkets are better than others to use so I really am clueless. Can anyone give me any ideas? Also, is there a paladin website similar to what mages and priests have out there? P.S. I am holy.Rockafeller10 Oct 17
Oct 17 [Ret]I Cant Wait to be RDPS Again Ever since hammer of Wrath was taken from us because we had "Too much ranged" and didn't "feel like an immobile juggernaut", I've had a void inside of me that I couldn't fill. Now that we get to spam hammers like a Super Mario Hammers Bro. enemy, I finally have a way to hunt down all those pesky mages and hunters that kite me around and get all my ranged back. /sarcasm offSocomm4 Oct 17
Oct 17 Buffs in 5mans In 5m how do you typically buff people? I usually put DPS one on myself, the absorb one on tank and the healing/mana one on healer. (Derp'ing on names right now.)Aayah10 Oct 17
Oct 17 Ret DPS Rotation... the guides kind of suck Is there a better priority instruction than Icey Veins? Their Ret rotation/priority guide seems like the person who wrote it really wants Ret to seem complex. Then there is Noxxic that has like 4 steps to the priority if you aren't talented into some of the optional stuff. But I never trust Noxxic. I'm just looking for something simple to help with some weakauras setup. Can I just take Noxxic's guide, but add Wake Of Ashes (/w Ashes to ashes) as top priority if under 5 holy power?Jezziro2 Oct 17
Oct 17 highest possible healing output? It's dwarfs by yards. Ppl that play diablo know that adding 2% crit healing while stacking tons of crit is a huge thing. Lots of ppl might get flustered and roll a draini for gift of naruu. 2% crit healing is passive meaning it happens with every spell that crits. A HoT would be able to passively heal someone however most of the time we are fine letting ppl take a barrage of attacks and then healing them for 1.9-3million all at once rather then keep them permanently topped off. I know this is a hidden technique however as I've achieved 95-99%ile on every fight almost on damage as holy pally.Actioncam0 Oct 17
Oct 17 Mastery the New Haste? - 7.1 Let’s be real here. We know the chances of blizzard listening to the community and stopping the crusade change is less than the odds of a Divine Purpose Proc. So assuming the changes are coming… Does anyone think the talent will still work but with stacking mastery? I believe I saw that judgement has 75% reduced cool down with the new crusade change. Maybe also pick up greater judgement even for single target with the crit? If this is the case I’m glad I sold all my mastery gear lolBwin3 Oct 17
Oct 17 Stats for Holy? I don't know enough about Hpally other than what IV and Nox say. Is Crit and Mast what I'm shooting for? If any experienced Holys could confirm and explain I would be appreciative.Gozerholy9 Oct 17
Oct 17 Does Light of the Titans (Prot) scale? I'm only lvl106 and the gold trait says "Hand of the Protector will also heal for 77,575 over 15sec" First is Hand of the Protector a must have ability? To me it looks like it is a must have and the other two are fillers. Maybe Knight Templar is worth it in PvP but I also read HOTP heals for 50% in PvP. Second, does Light of the Titans scale with level or gear? At 106 I have 1.08m HP so this heal is only giving me 7% heal over 15sec or just 0.47%HP/second. And that's when I only have 1.08m HP what happens when I have 2-3m?? The gold trait really feels worthless and I just want to know if I should even bother getting it. Or once I get the other 2 golden traits just pick up the remaining ones I want and then start working on Ret/Holy?Habskillaa7 Oct 17
Oct 17 Loving the Crusade Changes! JK.Aolyn3 Oct 17
Oct 17 Going OOM on raids as Holy I find myself going OOM very fast on raids and even in pvp compared to other healers. I usually keep beacon on whichever tank is taking the most damage and spam shocks/holy lights/light of dawn on the raid members. Do you guys have any tips or tricks on how to conserve mana but still keep up on the healing meters? Thanks!Uglymolerat8 Oct 17
Oct 17 CRUSADE CHANGES ARE BS Immature title? Mabye. But c'mon Blizzard, there's an overwhelming consensus among pallies that the upcoming crusade changes are terrible and will gimp the fun of the burst rotation. Blizz, it is an unnecessary change. Stop just blindly throwing nerf darts.Hugenugs0 Oct 17
Oct 17 Light of the Titans [Prot Artifact Trait] TL;DR This artifact trait is horrible and has no place being in our Artifact weapon, let alone, being a golden dragon. It reads: Light of the the Protector will also heal for [ 500% of Attack Power ] over 15 sec. At 855ilvl, with 24,750 strength (Two Strength trinkets), it only heals for 167,000. Now you might think that is a lot until you look at our HP pool. Right now sitting at almost 3m HP, that 167,000 is borderline nothing. Pally's just had their healing nerfed lower then every other tank (aside from Guardian Druids and we all know how strong they are). Now even if they were to buff it, it still would not be amazing. It ticks every 3 seconds and for a tank, those ticks would not get a lot of value unless your HP wasn't topped for most of the duration. For the record this trait has been discussed by every top tier Prot Pally tank and it is unanimously a joke. Currently Prot Pallies are the worst tank at taking consistent damage. They have the worst mitigation uptime at around 60%. No other tank has to deal with fights where 40% of the time, they don't have any way to reduce damage. This is not a big deal in most raids, but it makes Prot Paladins in Mythic+s very weak. So as of now, Prot Pallies have 1 Artifact Trait (Bulwark of Order), that only heals for around 13% on any given fight. Our other trait, heals for even less. Something needs to change to make them more viable in raids and much stronger in plusses. We shouldn't have to wait until the end of the expansion to be comparable to other tanks.Knowm50 Oct 17
Oct 17 State of Retribution State of Retribution. So with the upcoming changes in 7.1 only being 8 days a way I thought I would talk about this. I believe we are inherently flawed by design. Let me start with Greater Blessings. Why do these exist? When Blizzard went out of their way to remove raid buffs from everyone, then then went “Na, Ret will still need these.” The need to rely on a minimum of 2 other people in order to be an effective a DPS is complete nonsense. A simple solution would be to bake this DPS directly into the Spec. What about kings and wisdom you say? Please feel free to look over logs, I don’t see any Rets buffing anything else, other than might. Next let’s look at the issues with the rotation\abilities. I fully understand that there are limits, but let’s get this straight first and foremost we are by no means an original class. Are Ret Paladins unique? “Sure”, Original? “Nope sorry”. The judge window is a direct rip-off of Colossal Smash Warriors. Fully understandable you want us to be holy warriors got it. Holy Power still around? So now we are Rogue\Druids? With the spend Holy power in the Colossal Smash window. Well, ok… So we are going to have some kind of energy system where it regens and no more mana? and its good like enhance shaman right? “Nope” Still has mana, although largely ignored unless you need to spam flash of light. On Nov 9th last year Class Previews were announced. In that you said “We’re making several tweaks to Retribution to amplify their character.” and “Separating them from the other types of Paladins, Retribution Paladins continue to use Holy Power, serving as a strong mechanic for building interesting gameplay.” I feel you have failed in these tasks; you have not amplified the characters or made Holy power a strong mechanic for building interesting game play. It would seem the Paladin Devs were busy playing golf, while fire mage Dev’s worked overtime. You were provided plenty of feedback in beta, you chose to ignore 95% of it. There is no mission accomplished sign above you that’s the glow of the light telling you, you should be ashamed.Smiteya0 Oct 17
Oct 17 7.1 Crusade With the patch release date already announced, this will probably have little effect, but I rushed over here after I found out that crusade is getting a change come 7.1. I don't post in these forums ever, in fact this might be one of my first posts in here, but I couldn't let this change go ahead without me at least saying something about it. Over the first moth of legion, I have to say that it was a challenge to get used to my paladin again. But after switching to crusade in raids, I've noticed not only am I providing more damage output for my team, I'm actually having a lot of fun as well. The play style I have now is really enjoyable, there is something so satisfying about dishing out damage faster and faster as I spend more HP. I feel like I'm doing something and I feel awesome doing it. I've felt so limited by my haste stat so far this expansion and with crusade loosing its haste boost, the largest aspect I've enjoyed about Ret Paladin so far will be wiped out. Because of this, I strongly feel that this change should not be made live, and after perusing this forum I think a lot of other Ret Paladins agree with me.Cósmic1 Oct 17
Oct 17 Ret World quest trinkets I am spec'd for Ret and my loot spec is also Ret but i have gotten 3 ilvl 840 trinkets from world quests that are all INT, i put in a ticket and got no help, anyone else having this problem?Vladimr7 Oct 17
Oct 17 Crusade changes in 7.1 So if Blizzard doesn't actually listen to us for once since the last six years like they probably wont since they've seemed to just throw it away like always; what class are you guys going to reroll to? Personally, I'm thinking Sid Meier's Civilization VIShepárd7 Oct 17
Oct 17 Retribution Paladin Rotation What is your raid rotation and what is your average DPS? According to, I'm currently simming at 264597.9 dps: Edit 10/17/2016: There has been a lot of helpful feedback in this thread on perfecting my retribution paladin rotation. When I started this thread, I was struggling to hit 200k DPS, now I'm hitting at a much more reliable 210-220k DPS without pots or flasks. I will edit this again once I have a combat log from heroic raids. My guild and I are currently running heroic Emerald Nightmare, but I forgot to log combat for that run. Here is a LFR Tormented Guardians run: This is my current rotation: Edit: This rotation has been updated to reflect the revelations made at this point in the thread: Prefight: Flask of Countless Armies, Defiled Augment Rune, The Hungry Magister, and Blessing of Might. During countdown: Potion of the Old War 1. Ashes to Ashes 2. Judgment 3. Crusade 4. Templar's Verdict 5. a.) If no interrupts really needed in the fight, then Arcane Torrent 5. b.) If interrupts are anticipated, Crusader Strike 6. Templar's Verdict 7. Blade of Wrath 8. Crusader Strike 9. Crusader Strike If Judgment not quite off cooldown and the debuff is gone from the mob, I sneak in another Templar's Verdict. 10. Repeat After the fight has already started, I try to time Potion of the Old War for whenever I use crusade, which may be whenever it is ready or when we are expecting to lust. Use Shield of Vengeance when expecting any kind of damage that needs absorbed. Use Eye for an Eye when expecting physical damage (e.g. Ursoc charge). If those are on cool down (or the damage is a great deal greater than what will be absorbed) then use Blessing of Protection. Use rebuke or arcane torrent as interrupts on an as needed basis.Rennis39 Oct 17
Oct 17 Crusade Changes and other bad talents I know many paladins are protesting the proposed changes to Crusade, and with good reason. Crusade is one of the few "good" talents we have, one that alters our play style and rotation, requiring some forethought and planning which should be rewarded. Ret pladins are plagued with bad talents in our tree - Execution Sentence - underperforms, does not benefit from artifact traits increasing spender damage Consecration - underperforms compared to the AOE increase from Final Verdict and single target scenarios. Repentance - Should be a PVP talent. Word of Glory - Comes at an extremely high cost, forcing a DPS sacrifice. Inferior compared to both Justicar's Vengeance and Eye for an Eye. Seal of Light - Same issue as Word of Glory. Holy Wrath - Should be a PVP talent. Cooldown too long and condition dependent to be used reliably in PVE. It should also be noted that Blizzard does not have a clear focus for the level 90 talents, which are split between survivability and mobility. In fact, our options for mobility are so poor that most PVE players will take Divine Intervention over any mobility talent. Maybe its time to go back to the drawing board to add additional focus and meaningful choice to some of the talents above before one of the best is reworked.Kaybe2 Oct 17
Oct 17 Holy shield (prot) Thoughts on holy shield for prot? I always enjoyed damaging things on my blocks and a big reason I wanted to be a prot paladin was Hobbs. I know icyveings recomends blessed hammer for the mitigation, but how is holy shield for dungeons and mythics? I leveled with it and enjoyed it a great deal.Superwet18 Oct 17
Oct 17 Crusade is the Only Reason to be Ret It's the best move they have and removing the haste on it will neuter the class, if not in DPS then certainly in fun factor. And making it impossible to get to 15 stacks while also making each stat count for less? Did Ret Pallies need a nerf? We seem to do good to great damage, but not as much as a dedicated DPS class like a rogue or a mage, and that seems like a good place to be considering all of our support abilities. I played Ret in Vanilla, early BC and late Wrath. I can't speak for the years in between, but what ret pallies are right now (if they take the Crusade talent) is the most fun they have EVER been. Please do not make these Crusade changes.Crazycrazydr2 Oct 17
Oct 17 Prot paladin questions. Can anybody provide an up to date/good resource for someone that's considering on tanking as a pally? Just wanted to see if there's anything outside of known resources. I've played mostly ret so far, and enjoy the pacing of prot way better, but the rotation is pretty off putting for me. It doesn't feel as static as ret, and that leaves me unsure of whether I'm doing it right. Also, thoughts on the current state of prot? Today, I got told by a guild healer that prot pallies are one of the worst tanks, sitting right next to BM Monks.Espresso5 Oct 17
Oct 17 Execution sentence dealing less dmg So is the tooltip for execution sentence wrong? for me it is saying it deals 299k dmg, this is without judgment being up, wings, nor any trinket. Yet it is hitting for 285k. Also, why isn't execution sentence also mentioned in the artifact, if you are adding another ability to the same tier as TV, then it should also scale with the damage boosters that boost TV. For example I think from the total artifact tree there is about a 16% boost to TV from talentsStinkymonky4 Oct 17
Oct 17 Hardcasting HPall PvP Does holy have any abilities that let us free cast with no interrupts (aside from bubble)? Having a very difficult time casting in arena/BG without getting holy locked. Thanks!Holyswagg1 Oct 17
Oct 17 Im Conflicted so i started leveling my paladin to be my pvp main. i started as ret and everything was great until i switched to prot for quick dungeon queues... now i like prot. i think i like it better than ret... but i want to pvp. help.Tipptipp2 Oct 17
Oct 17 D&D paladin lore? I need education! was having a discussion with guild mates the other day & some started in on me that we should be pigeon holed into the support class b/c that is what we were in dungeons and dragons. I never played D&D and I had no real knowledgeable way to discuss that stigma. I look forward to the education.Ulooknatme10 Oct 17
Oct 17 Slime Just server hop. Took me an hour. Cheers.Whitelabel9 Oct 17
Oct 17 Revert 7.1 Crusade Changes... Or atleast leave the haste component on it...It is not fun..the rotation is clunky as hell..Stop nerfing things back into oblivion...Ret is finally decent and these knee jerk type of nerf/buffs is what is going to cause a lot of people to leave this game..Work on the actual specs that NEED improving and bring them up to par instead of nerfing a spec that is finally in a good spot..Chîsus11 Oct 17
Oct 17 Paladins are more mobile than Hunters? So, some Hunters are complaining about a mobility hit to one of their talents in 7.1. One of the Hunters even began stating that Paladins are more mobile than Hunters. What do you all think about that?Airc20 Oct 17
Oct 17 So crusader change is coming? I just boosted my pally, cost me !@#$ing 66 bucks. %^-*ing hell blizzard give me a !@#$ing refundHacknojam5 Oct 17
Oct 17 Request - Corrupted Remembrance effects Real short, it would be a nice change if the new corrupted Ashbringer appearance came with a spell effect color swap to match the corruptiness of the appearance. Just a little flavor addition.Ekhart1 Oct 17
Oct 17 DPS problems For some reason I have read every guide, all advice on talents, rotation, etc and can't do decent DPS. Been mashing the buttons as fast as possible and max effort, can't get it decent. Used to play a mage,rogue,dk way back in the day and never had a problem understanding rotation and maxing DPS. What am I missing? Any tips that I'm overlooking?Coacholsson14 Oct 17
Oct 17 Paladin Crusade change kills fun I stopped maining my Paladin a while ago but I've been keeping him researched in artifact power and the occasional questing. It was only recently that I got to using crusade at lvl 4 due to a relic giving an extra rank. When I had first tried out this ability I did not like it until I got geared up a bit and sunk points into it. After using it in some mythic + and raid environments I really liked it. It took wings and made it feel so much more than what it was due to the massive haste increase. It really made it almost feel like you were charging up to become super saiyan! Needless to say I have read the changes coming up for crusade. Even with my Ret being an alt I had to come to the forums and add my voice to the ranks as an unhappy customer. It's clear from feedback that players enjoy the current iteration of crusade and rather than try to tweak it somehow you're replacing it entirely with a new playstyle. I'm not saying that this little judgement buff thingy can't be fun either but people would probably have enjoyed it much more if that replaced the passive proc based gameplay talent instead of crusade which again based purely on player feedback is a crowd favorite.Poomachine0 Oct 17
Oct 17 Retribution Clarification I'm relatively new to Ret, but I'm definitely enjoying the playstyle - and off-topic, I'm pulling for them reverting those 7.1 Crusade changes just as much as everyone else now that I've used it! I'm holding over 200k comfortably at this point on a dummy, though I know that doesn't account for my BoM damage I'm missing. Looking through some of the top logs though, I've noticed a lot of those Rets running Virtue's Blade. I guessed that was the optimal choice, but as my itemization is still questionable at best, I've been sticking with BoW to skirt around my low haste/crit. Is that a good call? At what point should I consider switching over to Virtue's Blade, if at all? I recognize it might be a Legendary-based choice, but I didn't armory around to check consistency. Edit: Is there a central Paladin information hub a la HowtoPriest out there?Pyaladin0 Oct 17
Oct 17 Divine Steed Visuals I've been leveling this guy and I've realised that I really hate the mount used for the Divine Steed ability. So I started thinking, what if we could use one of our other mounts instead? Anyone have any ideas if/how it could be done?Tahane3 Oct 17
Oct 17 Hitler Parody - 7.1 Crusade Changes Enjoy and give all the support to the maker of this video. By far the best laugh I had in along time.Chemz14 Oct 17
Oct 17 Another hourly plea to not change Crusader Bump and Move along. Hope they don't change this ability.Belars2 Oct 17
Oct 17 Which trait should I go for next? Good evening, Just wanted to see which would be the greater DPS increase. Echo of The Highlord or Divine Tempest?Relseth1 Oct 17
Oct 17 Avenging Crusader dmg boost needed! Hey, What nobody mentioned so far is that the -25% dmg nerf for healers in pvp directly affects our healing output in Avenging Crusader, thus the dmg boost while in crusader needs to be adjusted so it can stay a viable pick in rbg/arenas. It would have to be tuned to this -25% nerf and increase our dmg done by 40% + 25% = 50% dmg. So the healing numbers match up to what they were before the hotfix again. And if i might also throw in my personal opinion in: I think the dmg should be increased to like +75% and the converted healing decreased by the matching amount so the healing stays the same, but our dmg gets actually noticeable as Avenging Crusader, because right now it hits like a noodle.Cruzified35 Oct 17
Oct 17 Paladins! Rate Thy Transmog! #4 The #3 one maxed out for responses, so please continue this amazing thread topic. I enjoy seeing all of the Xmogs far too much to let this die. The last poster of the previous thread gets a 9/10 from me. I like the color matching. Edit: lets throw in a twist! If you have suggestions for improving an xmog, feel free to share what you feel would make it a 10/10! :-)Valisorian500 Oct 17
Oct 17 SAFE crusade for 7.1, The current version of crusade that stacks haste to 52.5% bonus and damage after a ramp up is fun and engaging, and also highly effective. This talent alone boosts the dps of retribution paladin by about 40% for the duration of an average raid boss fight. Currently retri is a bit better than middle of the pack in no movement fights against exactly 1 target, and worse otherwise. More importantly though, currently Crusade is like the regular use of abilities but more demanding and also more rewarding. It is probably the most fun aspect about the current iteration of retribution paladin. 7.1. is changing crusade completely, taking away the haste and "stacks gained on holy power used", and instead focuses completely on judgment in an attempt to make mastery relevant. The number of problems with 7.1. crusade are too many to list, but it begins with "retributions current mastery is bad, and then it is also capped at 2 targets(4 targets w/ talent)". Here is what 7.1 crusade as a reminder: Replaces Avenging Wrath Empowers your judgment to have 75% reduced cooldown, grant 1 holy power on use and increase crusade stacks by 1. Stacks of crusade increase damage and healing by 3%. Same cooldown/duration as Avenging Wrath What this also does is make it impossible to use Judgment with it's below 3 second cooldown and Wake of Ashes correctly around Crusade. You activate Ashbringer, gain 5 holy power, activate crusade, use judgment and overflow 1 holy power. Or you use Judgment, activate Ashbringer gain 5 hp, activate Crusade and wait 8 seconds for Judgment to get off cooldown before you get to actually use Judgment. Or you save up 2 holy power, activate crusade, use Judgment(gain 1 hp you're at 3 now), use Templar's Verdict(down to 0 hp), use judgment(1 hp), use wake of ashes(gain 5 hp, 1 overflow), and then you either use Judgment to gain stacks of your damage buff and overflow another holy power or use TV to spend holy power and do waste 1 global cooldown where you could ramp up your crusade stacks which is the entire point of this talent. The problem with retribution's mastery is that it is limited to a pseudo colossus smash effect that is then limited to about 35-40% of our damage output and is further limited to only work on maximum of 4 targets while divine storm has 8 yard radius and every other affected skill works on exactly 1 target. The 7.1. PTR version of crusade is an incredibly clunky attempt to force retadins into using mastery as a stat rather than making mastery actually useful to the spec. If this works it makes the equipment of most retribution paladins worthless as stat priority is completely flipped from live version, and if it doesn't work it removes the greatest talent choice the spec has and at the same time nerfs the damage output to the very bottom as the version that is going to be removed is solely responsible for 40% of retribution pala's damage output and gives it an amazing ~30 second burst window of very intense gameplay.Wunzhs3 Oct 17