How can people claim that the Horde is ...

General Discussion
...is better loved by the designers when the Horde as a whole is consistently depicted in all medias as having very dubious values as well as being quite brutal ?

Let's see Shattering, a book that have to deal with the ''offing'' of two faction leaders (spoilers)

Horde side : one bloody putsh, then one as bloody counter putsh, that let the authors of the first putsh alone without supervision (oh, that's not going to backfire...)

Alliance side : a utterly bloodless coup, than another coup that end with a political deal that migh bring under alliance fold BRD.

The worst thing Humans done was arguably the whole Garithos disaster....that's pretty pale in comparison to what the Orcs did. What amaze me is that the excuses Horde Players bring out for their genocide on Draenor and their attempted genocide on Azeroth is that they were under ''demonic influence''....while official lore flat out says that the genocide of the Draeneis was done mostly without the blood of Manoroth Orcs got that blood as a reward for their good work (as well for the final push on Shat) killing Draeneis : murders of prisonners, torture, killing of children was done extensively by the Horde before any demonic corruption.
Thrall is the only reason.
The worst thing Humans done was arguably the whole Garithos disaster....that's pretty pale in comparison to what the Orcs did. What amaze me is that the excuses Horde Players bring out for their genocide on Draenor and their attempted genocide on Azeroth is that they were under ''demonic influence''....while official lore flat out says that the genocide of the Draeneis was done mostly without the blood of Manoroth Orcs got that blood as a reward for their good work (as well for the final push on Shat) killing Draeneis : murders of prisonners, torture, killing of children was done extensively by the Horde before any demonic corruption.

You're only mad about that cause you're a draenei
Yes, but The Horde only murdered Draenei children. And Blizzard doesn't care about draenei. So it's not quite an issue.
While the developpers might have a personnal preference for the Horde, it's very obvious that the writers they engage have a preference for the Alliance, as even in books that do a very good job showing various POVs, the Alliance come as clearly superior. (Shattering, Arthas)
Remember, there are different Orc clans, much like Trolls and Dwarfs. Thrall's did not believe in this genocidal life style, or at least he didn't and he instilled that on his people. Gromm, even in WC3, showed alot of what you are talking about, and doing things Thrall told him not to do. Unfortunately Thrall left the Horde in the hands of an incompetent, blood thirsty, moron that is going to push the people that have been trying to clean up at least there clans name, to do things that going to make them look bad again. Ironic the one he left the Horde to is Gromm's son.
Actually, in the book, Durotan, while chaffing about it, give openly and explicitely the order to kill civilians and he only stop short at drinking the blood....and this is because he received a tip from Guldan.
I support whomever blood elves support. Long live Queen Azshara! Erm, I mean King Terenas! I mean Kael'Thas...? Or Illidan? Long live Thrall! No wait, it's Garrosh now.
Actually, in the book, Durotan, while chaffing about it, give openly and explicitely the order to kill civilians and he only stop short at drinking the blood....and this is because he received a tip from Guldan.


Just so you know, to anyone that hasn't read the book, that post made no sense at all.
The coup its self for the alliance may have been bloodless but the counter attack was not. Varian himself runs through the tram killing darkirons, harasses and nearly murders the new legal ruling leader of Ironforge before changing his mind and just... walking away.

The humans are also responsible for the creation of the Defias brotherhood because they were too cheap to pay the masons responsible for rebuilding their city. While the event its self was not bloodless it did beget bloodshed.

There was also Admiral Proudmoore's attack on Durotar which was a bloody event that resulted in Jaina having to watch her own father be killed. And blind confusion is no better of an excuse than Demonic Corruption.

There was also the attack by the night elves on the Warsong clan. The orcs were simply chopping wood and rather than the Night Elves saying "Hey guys could you like... not do that?" They just run them down. They should refer to that as the massacre at Warsong.

And while I'm on the topic of Night Elves lets not all forget so quickly that it's the Night Elves fault that the Burning Legion became interested in Azeroth, and indirectly Outland, in the first place. Specifically it's the fault of the highborn and their leader Queen Azshara.

But backing away from examples of some of the Alliance's problems. The dual between Garosh and Cairne was no random street brawl. It was honorable combat in the arena which, as seen from the eyes of the Horde, is not brutal. The subterfuge was of course but the alliance is just as guilty of that as the Orcs.

And the Orcs were under the Demon Kil'Jaeden's influence through his minon Gul'Dan long before Manoroth made them drink his blood.
Dotchoul, the demon kinda just told them that the Draeneis were bad and had to be killed. That's not much of an influence.

If we talk about Proudmoore the Admiral, we can also talk about the various non-Thrall affiliated clans of Orcs.

-the Twilight Hammer affiliated groups....
-The Old Horde in BRS
-The Fel Orcs...
I was always under the impression that blizzard favored the alliance.

There was also the attack by the night elves on the Warsong clan. The orcs were simply chopping wood and rather than the Night Elves saying "Hey guys could you like... not do that?" They just run them down. They should refer to that as the massacre at Warsong.

And while I'm on the topic of Night Elves lets not all forget so quickly that it's the Night Elves fault that the Burning Legion became interested in Azeroth, and indirectly Outland, in the first place. Specifically it's the fault of the highborn and their leader Queen Azshara.


You have a bunch of random creatures come on your land and start cutting down your trees, see how you feel. Not only that, but the Ashenvale forest is held sacred by the Night Elves, may as well have been an act of war as far as they were concerned.

Well of Eternity fiasco... well theres no possible way they could have known that was going to happen. However, quite a few of the Druids did say playing with it would probably be a bad idea.

Far as Draenor is concerned, you can rest the demons interest there completely on the Draenei's shoulders. Mainly Valen's for not playing nice with Sargeras.
People have been saying Blizzard prefers Horde over Alliance or Alliance over Horde since the game was released. It's never been anything more than petty 'us vs them' arguments and points and counterpoints about which faction had which advantages in-game.

For the longest time in vanilla, Horde had the best PvP racials (and the only decent racials period), but Alliance had easier access to Blackrock Mountain, and thus most of the vanilla endgame. Depending on who you'd ask, they're say Blizzard obviously favored Horde or Alliance for the above reasons. Don't get me started on the Paladin / Shaman / Alterac Valley issues, difficulty / tedium of leveling, etc. All it really came down to was people not being able to cope with both sides being absolutely equal like most games back then were.

I think the mentality has definitely stayed throughout the game, despite Horde and Alliance becoming equal in most aspects of the game, but it's definitely not as bad as it was in vanilla. I think most of it today is that Blizzard constantly portrays the Horde as the epitome of bloody, brutal badassery, minus blood elves and plus dwarves. Whenever L80ETC plays at Blizzcon, you always see threads about how Blizzard hates the alliance, and alliance players at Blizzcon itself booing (I've witnessed it in person every year they've played). If you look at sonsofthestorm.com, the website that Blizzard artists upload their own art, a lot of it is badass horde art. Though to be fair, Samwise is both the lead artist and the lead singer of L80ETC, so it's not surprising. On the lore side of things, Metzen considers Thrall his baby, so of course Metzen is going to have a lot of love for the Horde. I think the Horde turning from evil incarnate to the new 'pseudo-alliance' who may or may not have a greater sense of justice than the actual Alliance left a bad taste in a lot of Alliance player's mouths.

All of that combined with the fact that until Varian came around, they did very little to show the Alliance as anything more than religious crusaders or comic relief, the alliance never really had a reason to show 'pride'.

tl;dr, Horde has too much testosterone, Alliance doesn't have enough.
DOUBLE POST
Dotchoul, the demon kinda just told them that the Draeneis were bad and had to be killed. That's not much of an influence.

If we talk about Proudmoore the Admiral, we can also talk about the various non-Thrall affiliated clans of Orcs.

-the Twilight Hammer affiliated groups....
-The Old Horde in BRS
-The Fel Orcs...


You can't actually count the Twilight Hammer because, while they did start as a horde clan, they are now a cult with members from both sides.

And if you can count the Old Horde in BRS you can also count any splinter group of the alliance races as well. Such as, for instance, the broken, the satyrs, Illidan, Kael'thas and the Blood elves etc.

And while I agree that Kil'Jaeden pointing at the Draenei and saying "Kill that" is not exactly the best quality of mind control out there. I also have to point out that the vanity of the night elves is never as prevalent as when Queen Azshara says "I'm going to summon demons" and her people say "You're pretty so ok" naturally I'm paraphrasing.
It's pretty obvious Blizzard doesn't like the Horde. I mean, they gave you Blood Elves, didn't they?

In all seriousness though, I'm pretty sure Chris "Thundergod" Metzen said himself that his "heart lies with the Horde".
Blizzard ruined any flavor they had when they started giving "The Light" to The Horde. Here you have a "savage orcish horde" that's 2/5ths made up of former Alliance member races. Complete with what's left of their very Alliance-like customs. It bled out any unique flavor The Alliance had into The Horde. They where savage yet noble yet civilized yet pious. The Alliance became a group without a philosophy of their own. Bland. Flavorless. Offering nothing you could not simply find within the halls of The Horde.

To make matters worse, you have many Alliance groups that have gone neutral. The Argent Dawn/Crusade. This group is as Alliance in flavor and theme as can be. Yet here you have "savage" orcs jousting like knights of yore. While in the chapel a troll goes to the priest for confession. It doesn't add up. There's no mystery here. The Alliance has no identity because it was handed over to The Horde.
Also want to point out that you are correct that horde are portrayed as being brutal but it's one of the reasons that people say the Horde is favored.

The horde has been the focus of a great deal of development and growth. Especially in one Metzen's favorite type of story... the redemption.

Not to mention there was the part at the Blizzcon lore pannel when Metzen flat out said "Thrall" is the most important character in the game right now.

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