Xayton's Tank Guide - Ehh kinda updated

Paladin
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On my Pally I literally just work off a FCFS rotation and I can draw threat no problem.

Is this a case of simply just being smart with my abilities or am I just mashing buttons and winning? xD


You can faceroll your keyboard and hold threat just fine due to Vengeance and the stupid threat buff. That doesn't mean you are doing max damage and by extension max threat.
On my Pally I literally just work off a FCFS rotation and I can draw threat no problem.

Is this a case of simply just being smart with my abilities or am I just mashing buttons and winning? xD


You can faceroll your keyboard and hold threat just fine due to Vengeance and the stupid threat buff. That doesn't mean you are doing max damage and by extension max threat.


Typically I pull 18-20k on my Paladin on a boss fight.
Thanks for this great guide. I just brought this toon back from the dead and am converting him to a tank. Not that I blame them but hard finding groups with patience for a new tank with some healing gear :-)
Hmm, i tried looking up Skada and downloaded it. But it said i couldn't use it? it says I need healing required?
ok never mind, I had to download sakda damage meter first.
06/16/2012 08:52 AMPosted by Paintbrush
And you'd be doing more if you weren't facerolling, but it's up to you if you want to play poorly. We're not the ones raiding with you, after all. :P


I am confused by this.

If I am creating enough TPS through the use of abilities and CD's, I am preventing mobs from beating on players and generally keeping all mob attention on me, am I not properly filling my role?

(My tone in this is purely conversational, I am not trying to insinuate drama or start an argument.)
And you'd be doing more if you weren't facerolling, but it's up to you if you want to play poorly. We're not the ones raiding with you, after all. :P


I am confused by this.

If I am creating enough TPS through the use of abilities and CD's, I am preventing mobs from beating on players and generally keeping all mob attention on me, am I not properly filling my role?

(My tone in this is purely conversational, I am not trying to insinuate drama or start an argument.)


Tanks contribute a considerable amount of damage as well. You want to maximize so that you create all the damage as you can. ALL DPS is useful and helps contribute to a kill.

Further, if you were a raid leader and there were 2 tanks competing for the only open tanking spot in a raid, who would you choose assuming they had equal survival? The one doing 16-19k or the one who does 18-22k?

All other issues should be considered even in my example.
As long as you're CTC capped and distribute the remaining stats to where you feel it would be the most benificial to yourself (or the raid), it shouldn't matter what your TPS is.

There's always a work around for those moments when things don't go right (i.e. the occasional AS miss or CS whiff). You have to be able to recover accordingly and quickly. Knowing your toon in & out not enough any more. You have to know the entire raid mechanics as well as the other toons in the raid. Essentially, a tank has to be completly knowledgeable at all times to every aspect of a raid.

Those of us whom have been tanking for years, literally know how to Improvise, Adapt & Overcome as Pally Tanks. With initiative & experience; a tank will allways prevail no matter others may say.

The game demands it, raid survial demands, our fans demand it.
Hey there I'm just looking for tips for dealing yor'saj the unsleeping heroic fight. I'm find it very demanding on timing your cool downs and this week plan to try using the trinket [item="Mirror of Broken Images" /]. I hear and feel the problem for prot paladins is the damage is mostly magic and we don't mitigate that type of damage as well as other tanks.
07/11/2012 06:48 AMPosted by Shinyman
Hey there I'm just looking for tips for dealing yor'saj the unsleeping heroic fight. I'm find it very demanding on timing your cool downs and this week plan to try using the trinket [item="Mirror of Broken Images" /]. I hear and feel the problem for prot paladins is the damage is mostly magic and we don't mitigate that type of damage as well as other tanks.


Not a hardmode tank but maybe i can help you think of something to help? You know just brainstorming?

Have you thought of calling for Guardian spirit and blowing Avenging wrath to create a stronger WoG bubble? That works on magic damage.

Also, with the mirror you will have more CTC. You could trade out some of your mastery gems for stamina.

Do you use a flask or mastery elixir and resistance elixir/stamina scroll?

Do you use an effulgent meta gem for this fight? How about calling for external cds like Hand of Sacrifice/pain supression? Do your healers need PW: Barrier/aura mastery for the yellow blob or do you think they could help you with that?

Any chance of a dk speccing into antimagic zone?

You probably tried all this but thought if i brainstormed it might help.
Hey there I'm just looking for tips for dealing yor'saj the unsleeping heroic fight. I'm find it very demanding on timing your cool downs and this week plan to try using the trinket [item="Mirror of Broken Images" /]. I hear and feel the problem for prot paladins is the damage is mostly magic and we don't mitigate that type of damage as well as other tanks.


Not a hardmode tank but maybe i can help you think of something to help? You know just brainstorming?

Have you thought of calling for Guardian spirit and blowing Avenging wrath to create a stronger WoG bubble? That works on magic damage.

Also, with the mirror you will have more CTC. You could trade out some of your mastery gems for stamina.

Do you use a flask or mastery elixir and resistance elixir/stamina scroll?

Do you use an effulgent meta gem for this fight? How about calling for external cds like Hand of Sacrifice/pain supression? Do your healers need PW: Barrier/aura mastery for the yellow blob or do you think they could help you with that?

Any chance of a dk speccing into antimagic zone?

You probably tried all this but thought if i brainstormed it might help.


Well I'm going to go and say my guild attempted this fight last night and although he didn't go down I personally felt very confident in my ability to keep myself alive with the extra cool down the trinket I tried out gave me. Buffing myself with more stamina won't help much and it will mess up my avoidance cap for dealing with other fights. If i get more heroic gear sure I'll gem stamina due to diminishing returns and vengeance. I like the suggestion of the meta gem though I didn't even know it existed.

We just had dumb mistakes healer didn't see purple was out, I one time didn't notice yellow was out so I didn't use my big cd guardian spirit ( I try to avoid using it at all cost until yellow is out, doesn't help when you don't notice its out :P). one dps went down from adds while another ran to wrong blob while neither dps that stayed on yor never thought to go after the blob it had 10k health left... some bad rng with 3-4 mobs going after a healer off the back on y/b/r one shots the healer. miss timings on killing mana void (oom healers). We had 5 attempts our dps is strong (we were killing blobs with two melee staying on boss) I have no doubt we can do it we just need to avoid these things. I lived a yellow on my own cds still having lay on hands, and ardent defender with barely any heals thrown at me due the panic of the one shot healer. I hate to say it I don't need tips I just need the stuff I can't manage as a tank to go smoothly. There's just so much you just don't control as strongly in this fight as a tank compared to others.
An 80 prot pally doing Herald of the Titans, with a 1.7 speed weapon, would be better using CS or HotR?

Quick and dirty testing shows HotR doing a rather large amount of dmg compared to CS, probably due to the faster speed (which LK focused on for tanks).

Thoughts?
07/16/2012 01:46 PMPosted by Trixxis
An 80 prot pally doing Herald of the Titans, with a 1.7 speed weapon, would be better using CS or HotR?


CS.

07/16/2012 01:46 PMPosted by Trixxis
Quick and dirty testing shows HotR doing a rather large amount of dmg compared to CS, probably due to the faster speed (which LK focused on for tanks).


Are you doing your testing against a dummy? Remember to take seal and vengeance into account.

Back at the end of wrath HotR only beat out CS if all of the following was true
1) fast weapon
2)HotR glyph and no CS glyph
3) 2pT10 bonus
4) Low attack power (ie no vengeance REALLY low level gear).

Sounds like 3 out of the 4 might be true but once your vengeance ramps up CS should outpace HotR but it sounds like it might be close.

Personally, unless survival is a major issue, id use a slow 1handed agility weapon. Thats what most pallies did back in wrath...though take care in that agility did give both armor and dodge back then but does not anymore >.>

edit:
mmm my post is the 666th reply. Evil post is evil.
Did about 10 attempts. Tried using CS for the most part, but I was just getting parried like mad. DPS went up by about 1500-2000 using HotR glyphed vs CS glyphed.\

Not the determining factor, obviously, but I got muh title so's I dun care. XD
Grats!
GOOOOOD MORNING VIIIIIEEEETTTTNAAAAAAAMMMMMM!!!!!

Oh wait, i mean good afternoon paladin tanking sticky.

My Name is Celyn and while Xayton is away im going to explain some of the tanking changes for all of you. Hopefully he will be back soon to update his guide but till then ill try and cover things for all of you.

BOOO WE WANT XAYTON BACK


Quite you. Xayton will get back when he does. You have to put up with me for the time being!

First up...
OMG IM NOT BLOCK CAPPED ANYMORE!!!!


Afraid so. Block was moved to a second roll after avoidance and given a diminishing return. What does this mean?

Well before the game would roll a digital dice from 1-100. Based on the roll you would either dodge/parry/miss/or block the attack. NOW however it does 2 rolls. First roll determines if you dodge/parry/or miss the attack and after that another roll is taken to see if you block it or take a full melee hit.

This makes block capping MUCH more difficult. Furthermore, the diminishing returns on block pretty much makes it that much harder if not impossible to block cap.

Next up...
SHEEEET my parry just doubled!!!!


Another big change is that the diminishing returns on parry have been GREATLY reduced. In fact you will now want to have your parry percentage between 2-3x as high as dodge. Our good friend Waniou has used the math from maintankadin to provide us with this macro:

/run d=GetDodgeChance() p=235.5*d/65.631440-((235.5/65.631440)*5.01-3.76) DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Ideal parry for current dodge: "..string.format("%.2f",p))

This macro tells us what ratio of parry: dodge we want to maximize our avoidance and minimize the effect of diminishing returns. So if you have 12% dodge and if this macro says you want 2.5x more parry than dodge you want to aim at increasing your parry % to 30%.

Of course reforging dodge to parry changes this ratio so you might need to constantly readjust or use a program to even out your avoidance (once one becomes available).

Also note that as of LEVEL 85 str gives more parry % than actual parry rating. In fact a Cata str gem will give 110% of the parry as a parry gem! At level 90 this drops to str giving 93% of its value in parry and MoP gems give 2x as much green stats (hit/exp/mastery/crit/haste/spirit) as primary stats (str/agility/intellect).

OMG HELP ME! IM DYING!!


That brings us to 2 other new changes. First being that we now have 5holy power (though we can use only 3 at a time max) and Active mitigation (AM)! AM means that a part of our mitigation is now tied to our rotation.

Every time we use Shield of the Righteous (SotR) we get a 3 second buff Shield of the righteous that reduces all physical damage by 30% (which can be further increased through our mastery). In addition to this SotR now provides a stacking buff (increased thru our mastery) that increase the strength of our now CD free WoG.

So how do we use this awesome new form of mitigation? Well with us now having 5 holy power what we want to do is get to 5 holy power and then cast SotR then start building up our holy power back to 5 and recast SotR again.

But if we can only use a maximum of 3 Holy Power at a time WHY wait for 5 holy power? Because if an emergency comes up you can use CS/HotR real quick to get back to 3 Holy Power and either recast SotR so that you can keep up the guaranteed damage reduction for a big attack OR use a 3 Holy Power Word of Glory to heal up.

QUICK TALKING SO MUCH AND TELL ME HOW TO PLAY YOU TWIT!


Okay okay.

Our single target rotation (priority queue) focusing on survival with maximum damage is as follows form most important to least:
1. Keeping Weaken blows up with Hammer of the Righteous
2. Shield of the Righteous
3 Crusade Strike
4. Judgement
5. Avenger's Shield during a Grand Crusader proc
6. Hammer of Wrath if usable
7. Consecration
8. Whatever Level 90 ability you choose
9. Avenger's Shield without a proc
10. Refreshing Sacred shield with 5 or less seconds left on the buff.
11. Holy Wrath

If you glyph Focused Shield move AS above HoW.

For maximum single target dps dont worry about WBs or SS (though thats a large mitigation loss) and prioritorize Hammer of wrath above everything save a glyphed AS.

Our AoE rotation is not fully mathed out but for maximum damage around 3-4 targets its looking like this:

1. Hammer of the righteous for buff
2. Shield of the Righteous
3. Holy Prism/Light's Hammer
4. Consecration
5. Avenger's Sheild
6. Hammer of wrath
7. Judgment
8. Hammer of the Righteous
9. Sacred Shield with 5 seconds or less to refresh
10.Holy Wrath

Use Seal of Righteousness at 4 or more targets and use seal of insight ONLY if the damage you do is of no consequence and you need the extra survival. For Everything else use Seal of Truth.

Bumping up HW and HotR over single target moves like HoW might be less damage but you can spread more damage to more tertiary mobs making it less likely to lose aggro on them to aoe abilities from dps players.

WHAT HOTR SUCKS!!!


Like I said the math on the aoe rotation is not done yet. You will PROBABLY get more damage at the moment mainly using HotR to keep the weakened blows debuff up and then dropping it to around HW.

HotR itself takes around 6 or more targets to do more damage than judgment, but since judgment is single target it can be more advantageous to use HotR over it to keep mobs on you during aoe.

Talents? OMG What talents should i take?


Our talents are pretty optional (YAY) or situational though Sacred shield is really nice.

An example of our talent being situational can be seen in the first tier.

Speed of light is nice when you need to get someplace QUICKLY but not that great when you need to move quickly for more often than 8 seconds out of every 45.

PoJ would be great on a fight like Heigan's Safety dance or encounters with lots of movement as would Long arm of the law. So on those two you need to think what is more useful.

Constant run speed increase improved by holding onto holy power for a maximum of 30% increased movement or 45% sprints whenever you can correctly time your judgment. Sometimes one will be better other times the other.

A quick note on tier 5 talents.

For damage these talents rate SW>HA>DP, while for SotR uptime they rank DP>HA>SW. Holy Avenger is more controllable than Divine purpose and can operate as a burst survival cd...and who doesnt want to wield the ashbringer? SW works well with the AW glyph (no duh huh) and is nice with LAotL. If you choose SW note that you should prioritize judgment over CS DURING AVENGING WRATH.

GLYPHS OH MY G...


I get it. You are freaking out. Bare with me a bit longer.

We have 1 must have glyph and one glyph that is a must most of the time.

Alabaster Shield- our top dps glyph and synchs well with our AM. Get it.

Divine Protection-If history is any indicator of the way raids will be in MoP on most encounter you will want to glyph Divine protection.

rest is up to you.

IM DYING I SAID TELL ME WHAT STATS I NEED


Oh boy. Long explanation coming

NO! YOU TALK TO MUCH TELL ME HOW TO PLAY DAMN IT.


=( Can i least explain after i tell you how to gear?

NO TELL ME NOA YOU STUPID ELF111!!!


Okay. The readers digest version is that depending on what you are going for you will either want to get hit and expertise to 7.5% then stack mastery/stamina or stack avoidance.

WHAT I TOLD YOU TO TELL ME HOW TO GEAR!


Well you didnt want the long explanation.

...OKAY GIVE ME THE EXPLANATION BUT MAKE IT QUICK YOU TWIT!!!


The long version of this is that we now have all of the following as mitigation stats: Dodge/parry/hit/expertise/mastery/haste

Based on the current math dodge and parry provide the most mitigation followed by mastery then hit/expertise and finally haste.

WHAT I THOUGHT YOU SAID TO STACK MASTERY AND HIT/EXP?


Give me time.

Yes dodge and parry give the most damage reduction. However its very random and unreliable and overall damage mitigation stops being incredibly important the moment your healers out gear mana issues at which point you will want something more reliable. So usually a pro-damage reduction gearing scheme is good when first leveling up and then loses potency.

Getting hit and expertise to 7.5% and then stacking mastery gives more reliable mitigation that you can time to mitigate boss burst. This is a better gearing strategy for when your healers have more regen and you start facing REALLY hard hitting bosses.

So the better of the 2 strategies depends on how geared you and your healer are. So make sure to talk to your healer regularly.

To further Complicate things avoidance enhances avoidance and makes hit/exp/mastery/haste weaker. Similarly hit/exp/mastery/haste all make each other stronger and make avoidance weaker.

WHY IS THAT?


Because when you are stacking mitigation stats (hit/exp/mastery) you are making boss attacks weaker and when an attack is weaker and less dangerous avoiding it is not as important. Similarly when you are avoiding most attacks making the few that do get through hurt less is not as important.

SO IF I WANT INCREASE MY DAMAGE REDUCTION WHATEVER YOU CALL IT!


For damage reduction you focus on dodge and parry using the macro i gave you earlier. Note that when gemming that str (for wrath only) actually gives more parry than parry rating! However if you stacked no other stat but avoidance then once you reach 16% dodge mastery would start to overtake dodge due to diminishing returns. Parry is and will always be the king stat for damage reduction under the current mechanics.

AND FOR RELIABILITY YOU WINDBAG?


Get hit and expertise to 7.5% and then start stacking mastery and stamina.

SCREW MITIGATION I'M THE DRUNK DPS WHO ATTACKS THE BOSS FROM THE FRONT!!!


Oh in that case:

hit to 7.5%>expertise to 7.5%>haste>Expertise to 14%=strength

WHAT ABOUT GEMS


Unless the boss is 75% magic damage use austere meta gems. For the rare boss who is mainly magic damage use the Effulgent meta gems. Block has been too weakened to worry with eternal gems anymore.

For the rest of the gem slots you first need to consider what it is you need.

Do you need mitigation or soaking power (effective health). If you are getting 2 shot or your healers have more mana than they know what to do with you will want more soaking power. Otherwise mitigation is the way to go.

*- denotes recommended

For Soaking Pre MoP use the following

Red: Sovereign Shadow Spinel or Guardian's Shadow Spinel*
Blue: Solid Deepholm Iolite*
Green: Puissant Elven Peridot *

For MoP (remember you get 2x as much secondary stats in MoP on gems) soaking:

Red: Defender's Imperial Amethyst or Guardian's Imperial Amethyst*
Blue: Solid River's Heart*
Green: Perfect Puissant Alexandrite *

For mitigation in pre-MoP you will choose between maximum damage reduction and reliability. DR stands for maximum DR, R stands for Reliability.

Red DR: Bold Queen's Garnet
Red R: Keen Lava Coral* or Skillful Lava Coral. Precise Queen's Garnet if you are having issues reaching 7.5% expertise
Blue DR: Etched Shadow Spinel or Sovereign Shadow Spinel
Blue R: Accurate Shadow Spinel or Guardian's Shadow Spinel *
Yellow DR: Champion's Lava Coral
Yellow R: Fractured Lightstone*

Mitigation options for MoP. DR stands for Maximum DR, R stands for reliabilty.

Red DR: Flashing Primordial Ruby
Red R: Fine Vermilion Onyx or Keen Vermilion Onyx*. Precise Primordial Ruby if absolutely necessary to hit 7.5% exp.
Blue DR: Defender's Imperial Amethyst or Retaliating Imperial Amethyst
Blue R: Accurate Imperial Amethyst or Guardian's Imperial Amethyst*
Yellow DR: Stalwart Vermilion Onyx
Yellow R: Fractured Sun's Radiance

JC only gems: Flashing Serpent's Eye Fractured Serpent's Eye [item="83148"]

You forgot chants you imbecile


Sigh.

/Rodney Dangerfield

I get no respect i tell you. No respect.

Anyways

Pre-MoP:

Shoulders: Greater Inscription of Unbreakable Quartz or scribe only Inscription of the Earth Prince
Cloak: Enchant Cloak - Protection
Chest: Enchant Chest - Greater Stamina
Wrists: Enchant Bracer - Superior Dodge*, Enchant Bracer - Greater Expertise*, Enchant Bracer - Precision* or Enchant Bracer - Major Stamina*
Hands: Enchant Gloves - Mighty Strength, Enchant Gloves - Greater Expertise or Enchant Gloves - Greater Mastery*
Belt:Ebonsteel Belt Buckle
Legs: Drakehide Leg Armor
Boots: (if you have PoJ) Enchant Boots - Mastery* Enchant Boots - Mastery or Heavy Savage Armor Kit. (If no PoJ): Enchant Boots - Earthen VitalityEnchant Boots - Lavawalker
Rings (chanter only):enchant ring stamina (60)*
Shield: Enchant Shield - Mastery
Weapons: Enchant Weapon - Landslide or Enchant Weapon - Windwalk.

MoP:

Shoulders: Ox Horn Inscription Greater Ox Horn Inscription* or scribe only Secret Ox Horn Inscription*
Cloak: Enchant Cloak - Greater Protection* or Enchant Cloak - Accuracy . Dont forget Engineers you can use a Goblin Glider WITH EITHER chant.
Chest: Enchant Chest - Superior Stamina
Wrists: Enchant Bracer - Exceptional Strength, Enchant Bracer - Major Dodge, or Enchant Bracer - Mastery*
Hands: Enchant Gloves - Superior Expertise, Enchant Gloves - Super Strength or Enchant Gloves - Superior Mastery*
Belt:Living Steel Belt Buckle
Legs: Ironscale Leg Armor
Boots:Enchant Boots - Pandaren's Step or Enchant Boots - Greater Precision or (if you have PoJ) Sha Armor Kit
Rings (chanter only): Enchant Ring Greater Stamina. On beta it says 160 but it actually gives 240 stamina.
Shield: Enchant Shield - Greater Parry
Weapons: Enchant Weapon - Colossus*, Enchant Weapon - River's Song, Enchant Weapon - Windsong or Enchant Weapon - Dancing Steel

Well i hope that covers all your questions about the changes. Hopefully Xayton will be back soon or a new guide will be up soon.

Thanks for reading =D

Xayon would have done a much better job than you! You suck at writing guides!


Hush! If you want a better guide you will have to go offsite:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/08/09/mists-of-pandaria-guide-to-protection-paladins/
http://sacredduty.net/
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t130602-prot_5_0_4_somebody_i_used_know/

Recommended links:

My MoP Plate Tank Gear Guide:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6606903045
The Pally Only version:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6571787785
Avoidance, diminishing returns, and block:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
Tank movement
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1920715056
Maintankadin forums-THE Prot pally theorycrafting site:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=33&sid=eb1d0db96011dab99d5165e74f7f814a

YOU FORGOT THE LEGALESE!


Oh yeah!

None of the info in this guide is original and is a paraphrasing of the info found on the maintankadin website or simply browsing wowheads. All Credit goes there.

In closing:

Don't blindly lead yourself. Take the time to learn about your class. Learn why you should be gemming with X gems, enchanting with Y enchants, and specing Z. It will give you a better understanding of how things work and in the long run make you a better tank.

-Xayton, former Pally Tank guide writer and One of the best tanks evah!

Full Guide:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6489939466
06/16/2012 08:52 AMPosted by Sparklefever
And you'd be doing more if you weren't facerolling, but it's up to you if you want to play poorly. We're not the ones raiding with you, after all. :P


Love the name! <3
Kinda updated.

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