An idea for Holy Power [Suggestion]

Paladin
I think Holy Power is a pretty interesting mechanic, but that it's also been pretty controversial. It would be nice to not be "holy rogues", so I was thinking of alternatives to the combo point system and came up with this:

Instead of having a max of 3 holy power, and gaining 1 per Crusader Strike (Or Hammer of the Righteous), make holy power into a bar. I assume it would be a simple "start at 0, full at 100" bar. Holy power finishers then have their effect scale to how full the bar is. I know the designers obviously want us to wait until we have full holy power, so I recommend a scaling like so (excuse my poor graph skills): http://i52.tinypic.com/24ecc3s.png

Additionally, holy power could be made a bit more unique to each spec. For example: "Protection: CS/HoTR could grant 20 holy power, while blocking an attack or maybe even just taking damage will also grant some holy power." "Retribution: CS grants 30 holy power, holy damage skills give 20 holy power." (I haven't played holy so I can't really make a recommendation for their holy power gain) Numbers could be tweaked to make sure paladins reach 100 holy power as fast as they currently do, or as fast as the developers want them to. I don't know how well this would work but holy power could even be dropped from Crusader Strike (except for Ret) and each spec will gain holy power exclusively from their role (blocking/taking damage for prot, etc.).

Thoughts?
I think you're right that something needs to be changed. I've been thinking along the same lines as you for ret. Instead of it being something that we rely heavily on for our dps but have to wait for, change it to something more of a bonus, kind of like the Moonkin Eclipse bar. I like the Eclipse bar, it's more engaging without being too complicted just for complications sake like I feel this holy power system is for ret.

I think we also need to change the rng aspects of our talents and mastery at the same time. Make Art of War and Hand of Light controllable somehow, and have those count toward the generation of holy power. Also, the talent for a 40% chance to gain holy power on certain abilities needs to be changed to something like I've suggested to where most abilities generate holy power toward a bonus ability.
I like the idea of a progression bar rather than a 3 point bar, but I'm sure that would be pretty rough scaling that with the other abilities.
Other thing is, holy power is nothing like rogues (or feral druids for that matter)
combo points are put onto a target, if the player switches targest for whatever reason and a combo point is put onto that target, then they lose the combo points from the other target while holy power does not, and in fact is not put onto the target, but rather put on the paladin.


I feel like the difference you are pointing out between combo points and holy power are semantics. Hp still decays if you don't use it and you also need to think of how our judgement stacks on single targets making a lot of switiching bothersome.

I recently rerolled a warlock on Beta and I was so happy to see how they've changed the drain soul and soul shards system. It's much simpler and pleasant to use. They understood that the previous system was unneccisarily tedious and time consuming and recognized that it didn't translate into "fun". Sometimes a simple desing is much more satisfying than overly complicating something.
I think we also need to change the rng aspects of our talents and mastery at the same time. Make Art of War and Hand of Light controllable somehow, and have those count toward the generation of holy power.


Interesting idea.

Perhaps for AoW, Exo is a guaranteed point of Holy Power rather than a 40% chance at a point but leave the proc nature of AoW in place? Gives us a little more stability in generation since we don't even use Exo without the proc, anyway.

As for HoL...Say, the next skill - or, possibly, two? - you use within 10 secs automatically generates Holy Power?
I like the idea.

But I'm afraid that more headache and theory-crafting will ensue if that gets implemented. For instance, say you have 92 Holy Power. Assuming Crusader Strike grants 30 or so Holy Power, do you dump your Holy Power now by using TV? Or use Crusader Strike to let it overflow to 100, and then use TV? What about when you have 91 Holy Power? 93? 90? etc...

Don't you think there will be so much theorycrafting involved to figure out which would be optimal DPS? :(
I think you're right that something needs to be changed. I've been thinking along the same lines as you for ret. Instead of it being something that we rely heavily on for our dps but have to wait for, change it to something more of a bonus, kind of like the Moonkin Eclipse bar. I like the Eclipse bar, it's more engaging without being too complicted just for complications sake like I feel this holy power system is for ret.

I think we also need to change the rng aspects of our talents and mastery at the same time. Make Art of War and Hand of Light controllable somehow, and have those count toward the generation of holy power. Also, the talent for a 40% chance to gain holy power on certain abilities needs to be changed to something like I've suggested to where most abilities generate holy power toward a bonus ability.


I don't think I've gotten Hand of Light quite yet, if I did, I don't remember what it does.

But as for Hand of Light, with that system, it could be less RNG and changed to like, every 30-50 Holy Power gained will trigger it. The amount required should be enough to be equivalant to the average activation rate that it currently is, of course.
holy DKs instead of holy rogues?
Well considering holypower is not tied down to a particular target, paladin target swaps will be quite a bit more potent than a rogues in almost every situation, except when rogues use that one min cd.

The entire reason for adding holy power / new art of war / hand of light, was to deal with how "a bad ret paladin could do the same amount of damage as a good one," by rolling his face about the keyboard in a disorderly fashion. The new mechanics add some much needed variance to ret rotations, and overall I find them pretty fun.
holy DKs instead of holy rogues?


As far as I know, DK abilities don't scale with runic power, nor do all DK abilities (or any, as far as I know) cost 100% of current runic power. Even then, DK is kind of the anti-Paladin, so similar mechanics make sense (like Consecration / Death and Decay). Variations could be implemented though, like holy power not decaying while in combat, but decaying faster than runic power while outside of combat. I know they're planning to make divine plea give you 3 holy power, so perhaps divine plea under this system could grant 100 holy power and also prevent holy power decay outside of combat while the buff remains on the paladin.

I like the idea.

But I'm afraid that more headache and theory-crafting will ensue if that gets implemented. For instance, say you have 92 Holy Power. Assuming Crusader Strike grants 30 or so Holy Power, do you dump your Holy Power now by using TV? Or use Crusader Strike to let it overflow to 100, and then use TV? What about when you have 91 Holy Power? 93? 90? etc...

Don't you think there will be so much theorycrafting involved to figure out which would be optimal DPS? :(


I was thinking that predictable gains would prevent this (like 20 holy power per CS + 10 per block, or something along those lines, so you'd want to use it at 100 and not 90 and getting something like 93 holy power would be unlikely), though another workaround could be to allow overflow, for example if you're at 90 and use a 20 holy power CS, you'll be at 110 but moves will no longer grant holy power until you're under 100 again. Then again, I don't think it would take a huge amount of theorycrafting to find out something like "you should have 93 or more holy power and it's okay to overflow if you're below it".
glyph of death strike makes death strike scale with RP
http://www.wowhead.com/item=43827/glyph-of-death-strike

though still, what you're purposing isn't runic power, just more like runic power than combo points, where different abilities generate different amounts.

More fine grain.


I could see it working, I could make a case for it being better. But I don't see how it's two times better, because it would need to be for the developers to take it seriously.


What can be done is the little things, like generating HP through parry. Three second CS/HotR is somewhat of a crude fix.
I don't really mind the way Holy Power is now.. however, it could use a good change to make it more manageable.

Holy Power abilities should remain unusable until the paladin has received 3 Holy Power. This is to prevent mis-keying your abilities before they're ready; you pretty much NEVER want to use one of them before 3 HP anyways. If Blizzard wanted, they could make an exception for Holy Word.

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