Queue as Tank/Heal, roll on DPS loot

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
Its fine by me, anything to get more tanks and healers in the queue so I don't have to wait as long.

And to be fair, DPSers, you can feel free to roll on Tank / Heal gear -- you earned the right by waiting in queue for 15 minutes.

There's a reason the default loot rules don't restrict loot by the role you choose.
What is this? A reasonable person on the forum? Unpossible!
Taking loot from healers and tanks further discourages them from queuing as healers or tanks.

It also would likely negatively impact their continued tanking when they no longer need the JP or item drops. why would they continue to tank if they remember the experience being a negative one because dps kept taking loot for a roll they did not perform in the dungeon?
At this point, I Greed on all, need on gear that will help me or my offspec (I ask before doing this.) If anyone specifically mentions they could have used something I ended up with, I'm usually willing to just trade it to them. I'm mostly running heroics for points, not gear.
Taking loot from healers and tanks further discourages them from queuing as healers or tanks.


So... having competition on items as healers and tanks would discourage people and make them queue as DPS? Where they'll also have competition on items... and a longer queue time?

The actual things that will motivate healers and tanks to keep queuing once they have their gear / points for their main set is the fact that they can keep running for gear and points to build out the dps and / or healing sets.

I certainly don't want the tanks and healers to finish their one set and quit queuing.
Here's my rule:

If I want offspec pieces for an alt, I'm going to need on the first piece I need.

If I end up taking it from someone that also needed it for a mainspec, then I'll let them have the next piece.

If one doesn't drop. Oh well.

I'm not going to try queuing for heroics as a tank in DPS gear just so I have the privilege to roll on tanking gear. You can bet your ass I'm going to roll on every godamn tanking piece I see so I don't have to spend ages waiting for a run with an overgeared tank. If there's an opportunity for us to split the loot, then I'll do it. But, I don't have any control over what's going to drop.


Taking loot from healers and tanks further discourages them from queuing as healers or tanks.


So... having competition on items as healers and tanks would discourage people and make them queue as DPS? Where they'll also have competition on items... and a longer queue time?

The actual things that will motivate healers and tanks to keep queuing once they have their gear / points for their main set is the fact that they can keep running for gear and points to build out the dps and / or healing sets.

I certainly don't want the tanks and healers to finish their one set and quit queuing.


Sorry, the second part of my post explains the reasoning behind this. If you have too many negative experiences while running dungeons as a tank or healer, which are both higher stress roles than dps, it leads to people no longer queuing after they no longer need the items or JP. You already saw this comment throughout the tanking forums or in class forums for classes who tank. At a certain point you decide you don't want to deal with the a-holes, ninjas, and bad players from randoms, so you only bother with guild or friend runs. A major factor in this negative experience for tanks or healers are dps who need roll on tanking or healing items that the tank or healer needs, especially if they are items with low drop rates.

The HoR reg shield is a good example of this. Many tanks would just drop group as soon as they saw another plate class in the group because they know that the shield would be need rolled by everyone who could use it. Or they would just vote kick or demand the plate dps leave group to avoid having the item unfairly (in their mind)taken from them.

The more bad experiences you give tanks and healers the less likely it is they will continue to queue when the rewards are no longer of great worth to them. For months you have already been getting people who say "I only queue if a guildy needs a tank or for all guild runs".

The looting issue is only one of the reasons though why tanks and healers get "burnt out". Perhaps a larger issue is the attitude of many of the dps and their "gogogogogog faster" mentality that wrath, and particularly the LFD queue, has spread around the player base. Anything you do to increase the rate at which or likelihood that a tank or healer gets "burnt out" just serves to decrease the number of people performing those roles.

Also, for people who are thinking about getting into tanking or healing, what sort of incentive does it provide them? If you are a dps who is thinking about trying out tanking or healing, will the knowledge that everyone who can will be rolling on the gear you'll need, the job will be thankless, higher pressure, and you'll have to deal with people who are the a-holes, ninjas and bad players be an incentive to try out tanking? Its discouraging people before they even try it. Not many players think "hey, i would love to experience more abuse, i'm gonna become a healer"

Also i would like to point something out, there are a lot more tanks and healers than many dps think. They are specifically avoiding the queues though because they run with guildies, friends, or form their own group in trade and queue together. Ask around with tanks and you might be surprised at how many don't even to bother to tank for non guild runs.
I am fine with current loot rules, heroic/dungion loot drops frequently, and if you MUST have that one piece, you can probably get some friends to run it with you, or make a group of classes that can't roll for it.

I would like to see the ability to roll on lesser gear types you can wear if no one needs it. I think it is pretty retarded when my healing druid can't roll need on a piece of epic cloth and watch it fall to greed, and the guy who gets it instantly drops group or ignores you and then drops group.

I quit queueing, not just as a tank, but altogether for two reasons:

a. They're boring the 8734901240th time through, and
b. I don't need anything else out of them.

I've got all the emblems/points/gear I could possibly use. Lacking any other reason to queue up, I don't. Give me a reason to, and I will.

"altruism" isn't it, though.
Remember back before dual spec? And before tanks or healers could actually kill mobs in less than 2 minutes? Back when they weren't ever allowed to roll on DPS gear?

Yeah...
Almost any loot issues can be resolved just by speaking up. Either at the start of the run, "hey my offspec is tanking so is it alright if I roll on tank loot if it drops?" Or when a piece does drop, "mind if I Need that for my offspec?" In the hundreds of randoms I've done I've only seen a few say no or raise a fuss over it.
The more bad experiences you give tanks and healers the less likely it is they will continue to queue when the rewards are no longer of great worth to them. For months you have already been getting people who say "I only queue if a guildy needs a tank or for all guild runs".


If a tank / healer has a "bad experience" by fairly rolling on an item and losing -- they need to get their head on straight. This isn't a guild run, so its silly to try to apply guild loot rules. You can't expect strangers to pass on loot to "maximize benefit" of the members of a random pug. As I said at the start, I'm more then happy to share the DPS loot with tanks and healers, but I'm not going to kiss their feet and pass on useful loot to make them happy. They shouldn't be queuing for a random and expecting strangers to pass loot to them.
I know I quit tanking on my warrior because pugging was a bad experience for me. It wasn't just the loot, although it was very frustrating to lose loot rolls on ilvl 200 epics to t9 geared DPS warriors, but the loot issue combined with every other way geared DPS and healers like to abuse new tanks really turned me off to the whole thing.

My warrior got her tanking gear by tanking instances, or purchasing it, or crafting it. There is absolutely nothing stopping DPS from gaining gear the same way I did, except laziness.

Sure, there's nothing stopping you from needing it, and you have no obligation to pass on loot to people who need it for their current spec. But don't pretend that it doesn't make tanking or healing for you more of a pain in the butt. I'm not saying that we should treat healers and tanks like they're gods, but I am saying that people in groups should try to be more considerate of each other. When I'm in a group as a DPS, I am considerate of the fact that healers and tanks are putting their energy into that role and I am not, so I should give them first dibs at their loot. And when I'm in a group as a healer (or when I was tanking), I am considerate of the fact that DPS had to wait longer than me so I should let them have their loot. And no matter what role I'm in, I'm perfectly willing to do "optional" bosses if someone needs their loot or their emblems or JP or whatever.

This game is still, after all, an MMO. The other people in your group should matter too. So yes, I do expect random strangers to "maximize the benefit" of the loot that drops. Because we're a team, however briefly.
My warrior got her tanking gear by tanking instances, or purchasing it, or crafting it. There is absolutely nothing stopping DPS from gaining gear the same way I did, except laziness.


Indeed, its foolish to get tank gear by running instances as DPS, because you can run as a tank and get your DPS gear with a faster queue.

When I'm in a group as a DPS, I am considerate of the fact that healers and tanks are putting their energy into that role and I am not, so I should give them first dibs at their loot. And when I'm in a group as a healer (or when I was tanking), I am considerate of the fact that DPS had to wait longer than me so I should let them have their loot.


That's cool and all, but I really don't want the tanks and healers respeccing to DPS to get their DPS loot -- I'd much rather they stay as tanks and healers and roll on DPS loot. That way those of us who don't have a tank or healing spec can have faster queues.

And as a consequence of that, of course, the tanks and healers are going to have to share their loot too, because its not reasonable to do it any other way.

This game is still, after all, an MMO. The other people in your group should matter too. So yes, I do expect random strangers to "maximize the benefit" of the loot that drops. Because we're a team, however briefly.


I'm trying to look at the bigger picture here. Its nice to think of your one 5-man run with some strangers as a briefly happy family, but that's pretty short-sighted. I'm looking at "maximizing the benefit" for the battlegroup. If everyone who's willing to and capable of tanking or healing does so, while gearing up for every spec they care about, then DPS will benefit from faster queues, and faster earning of JP.

In the long run that's going to be better for everyone.
I'm glad that this was brought up.

After defending Org last night, my wife queued up her Prot Pally for one of the event dungeons.

After defeating the boss, a Necklace dropped. I forget which one... but it was a lot better than what she had. She rolled Greed on it. She won!! Everyone started yelling at her for even rolling on it saying it wasn't a Tank loot.

She was so upset, thinking she did something wrong. I told her that she did nothing wrong, as if the others needed it... then they should have rolled NEED. She camped, feeling that she messed up.
I'm glad that this was brought up.

After defending Org last night, my wife queued up her Prot Pally for one of the event dungeons.

After defeating the boss, a Necklace dropped. I forget which one... but it was a lot better than what she had. She rolled Greed on it. She won!! Everyone started yelling at her for even rolling on it saying it wasn't a Tank loot.

She was so upset, thinking she did something wrong. I told her that she did nothing wrong, as if the others needed it... then they should have rolled NEED. She camped, feeling that she messed up.


Well thats just stupid, it was a greed roll. If something isn't needed by anyone, who cares who gets it on a greed roll? This thread is at its core about need rolling on gear for role you are not playing over a player who is playing that role and needs the same item. if everyone greeds, who cares who wins it?

I would like to see the ability to roll on lesser gear types you can wear if no one needs it. I think it is pretty retarded when my healing druid can't roll need on a piece of epic cloth and watch it fall to greed, and the guy who gets it instantly drops group or ignores you and then drops group.


As of 4.0.1 all classes/specs have an armor specialization bonus of 5% to their primary stat for wearing all of the appropriate type of armor. Although I could see where you might want a cloth piece if it's a much higher item level upgrade over whatever leather piece you have in that slot, generally you want to stick with the type of armor your class wears so you don't lose the bonus.

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