The good side of Mythic 20man

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Uhh, people come back during an expansion, so the people who do quit, will probably even it out (actually the people coming back probably will outnumber the people who quit).


This is true but a large number of people start flaking out as the shine of the new expansion wears off.

Also not all of the people coming back will be raiders. They prefer a myriad of activities and have no desire to raid.
Except it isn't.


It is. You'll see (you won't have a choice =P). Enjoy the final tier in which the path of least resistance is still optimal.

I get all the reasons why you feel you have to do this. However, my group of friends struggles to complete the 10 man roster now. Indeed, we have 7-8 consistent folks and occasionally 2-3 outside the guild that show up. Most often, my group ends up pugging the last 2 spots. Now, you're asking us to double the pain (if not 6x more - as we need to go from finding 2-3 people to finding 12-13) if we ever want to get to heroic/mythic modes.


You've killed 2 heroic bosses while relevant all expansion. I wouldn't worry about mythic.

*Raises Drink

To Blizzard, for making the hard decisions & the awesome changes coming in WoD.


Cheers, it's been a long time coming.
While I appreciate the reply and the explanation from lore, it doesn't change the fact that this change is unacceptable to me.

I could live with 15 players. 20 is a really hard pill to swallow.

You need to reconsider. Period.
11/13/2013 08:35 AMPosted by Angosia
We chose to put Mythic at 20 largely for the function of raid design.


I get all the reasons why you feel you have to do this. However, my group of friends struggles to complete the 10 man roster now. Indeed, we have 7-8 consistent folks and occasionally 2-3 outside the guild that show up. Most often, my group ends up pugging the last 2 spots. Now, you're asking us to double the pain (if not 6x more - as we need to go from finding 2-3 people to finding 12-13) if we ever want to get to heroic/mythic modes.

I can't speak for my friends, but I do know that this was the last nail in the coffin, so to speak, for me. I will not be continuing into the next expansion. Once this one ends, so does my subscription. It is not a threat, just a mere reality of the choices - or lack of same - I have going forward.

I had a pretty interesting experience - more so when I switched from druid to rogue - when playing the game. Many bad raiding experiences (most as a druid). I abhor pvp and the annoying Pokemon system in the game. Crafting is 'meh'. But, in the end, I felt it generally worth the money most of the time. I no longer feel that way and am voting with my wallet. Tai Chi classes are looking more interesting by comparison and that's where I will go.

You may have chosen your numbers with great deliberation, but I do know this much for sure: It will lose people. With subscription numbers already 20% lower than they should be, this will not help. Good luck, you'll need it.


If finding 2 people is too hard, then you aren't good enough for heroic/mythic.
While I appreciate the reply and the explanation from lore, it doesn't change the fact that this change is unacceptable to me.

I could live with 15 players. 20 is a really hard pill to swallow.

You need to reconsider. Period.


And I need a home on Mars. Doesn't mean its gonna happen.
You mean they threw away +5m when they tried to do what "Hardcores" suggested and make heroic 5-mans superhard.

Anytime Blizzard focused on the superduper-endgame raider, the more they lost.


The declines in Cataclysm didn't happen just because dungeons were hard for a week. The declines in Cataclysm happened because a huge number of guilds were suddenly left completely screwed over because of 10 Heroic.

Normal from Wrath (which is WoD Normal, currently Flex) was eliminated overnight. Doing the same raid multiple times in a week with different groups of people - completely gone overnight. Difficulty was spiked through the roof for small groups and putting the same rewards into 10 Heroic as 25 Heroic let a bunch of guilds just screw over half their roster for faster, easier rewards.

WoD is the OPPOSITE of Cataclysm. You're getting two difficulties that are completely cross-realm and work with pretty much any group size (Normal, Heroic) both of which can be done multiple times per week (only get loot once per toon though) so create a viable PUG scene. You have the most difficult mode (Mythic 20) which is guild / server based. Oh, and LFR is no longer going to reward so much gear that people ignore PUGs completely - as we've seen a preview with the current Flex - the PUG scenes will be alive and well in WoD.

This is essentially the smartest thing Blizzard could have done.
The declines in Cataclysm happened because a huge number of guilds were suddenly left completely screwed over because of 10 Heroic.


So you are saying that the 5 million people that left were raiders? Got it.
While I appreciate the reply and the explanation from lore, it doesn't change the fact that this change is unacceptable to me.

I could live with 15 players. 20 is a really hard pill to swallow.

You need to reconsider. Period.

rofl. "Period."

People seriously need to get over themselves.
While I appreciate the reply and the explanation from lore, it doesn't change the fact that this change is unacceptable to me.

I could live with 15 players. 20 is a really hard pill to swallow.

You need to reconsider. Period.


How many times in Cata and Mist were the 25man asked to just *swallow* the changes made to the convenience of the 10man because you were more popular.

Blizzard finally realised that big supportive community that do not die overnight when one of the raiders dont show up is the way to go.

They wont reconsider, look at how they've been pushing this at the blizzcon, or here. They are standing strong with their change, and they should.
11/13/2013 09:10 AMPosted by Harpoa
The declines in Cataclysm happened because a huge number of guilds were suddenly left completely screwed over because of 10 Heroic.


So you are saying that the 5 million people that left were raiders? Got it.


Its that bigger communities are better than small community cliques for the game.
This will probably kill my guild. We'll churn through "heroic" in a few weeks and then quickly get bored when previously we would have had heroics to keep us occupied.

But whatever, if that's the direction Blizz wants to go, there are other games out there, and we'll probably head over to one of them. Certainly not going to keep paying a monthly subscription to Blizz if heroic raiding is not available.
Its that bigger communities are better than small community cliques for the game.


Nah was more pointing out what a crazy statement it was. Just like how people like to twist sub lose to favor their pov. When most of the subs lost were in asia. Just find it cute.

Community in this game is already pretty terrible, look at this thread. Half filled with quitters, and the other half making fun of them. Seems like a strong community to me.
if your guild is either not willing or unable to obtain and maintain a roster for mythic (i.e. going from 10 to 20), just guild hop when you see a guild wanting your class/spec? no big deal
Certainly not going to keep paying a monthly subscription to Blizz if heroic raiding is not available.


Later dude!
Community in this game is already pretty terrible, look at this thread. Half filled with quitters, and the other half making fun of them. Seems like a strong community to me.


Well some of it is because it's been 10 vs 25 since Wrath, some of it is because a lot of people just can't stand whiners, and it's just because people in general like to complain.

That's the internet for you.
That's the internet for you.


Sometimes I miss when the internet was just for pornography.
Well some of it is because it's been 10 vs 25 since Wrath, some of it is because a lot of people just can't stand whiners, and it's just because people in general like to complain.That's the internet for you.


Agreed, though you have to admit it makes you chuckle.
11/13/2013 09:31 AMPosted by Harpoa
Well some of it is because it's been 10 vs 25 since Wrath, some of it is because a lot of people just can't stand whiners, and it's just because people in general like to complain.That's the internet for you.


Agreed, though you have to admit it makes you chuckle.


Well it makes for some good reading, I'll give you that. On Friday and Saturday, I couldn't pull myself from these forums, just watching the dumpster fire that I knew would happen when they announced the new changes. People yelling at other people (as you know from the healing forums), it was just a train wreck, but I couldn't look away.

Now it's getting tiring.

And I usually enjoyed the 10 vs 25 debate, even though I'll be happy when it's finally gone.
And I usually enjoyed the 10 vs 25 debate, even though I'll be happy when it's finally gone.


Ehh believe me, people will find something else to fight about. Its what they do. Once they realize that mechanics are still tuned around flex and mythic, they will then blame that part of the game for killing the game and the community. Won't stop til they pull the plug. But it does make for some good bedtime reading.

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