The good side of Mythic 20man

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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I actually think it'll be a good longterm idea, even if the short term is a bit doom and gloom. It's currently VERY hard to get into a good 10m guild, because it's 10m and therefore they have to be extremely picky due to the tuning of 10s. When those guilds will need 20 people, it's easier to get at the very least a trial to show what you can do, as opposed to just being turned down because they can get somebody better and can't take the risk on you.

I see a lot of opportunity for skilled players who weren't given chances before to get a chance to trial with very good 10m guilds that are going to be looking at Mythic, since now their recruitment needs doubled and they can't be quite as picky. And, with everything other than Mythic being flexible and scaling, it seems like there is more opportunity to "groom" players that might be skilled but not quite up to Mythic raiding yet: You recruit and trial people and the people who can improve get put as alt/standby for Mythic, but since you can bring up to 5 other people for non-Mythic you bring them to that and alt groups, while helping them to improve. So the end result is you get a "farm" to cultivate new recruits and bring them up to the main roster when they've improved enough.
I think everybody agrees here that for the long term, it is a good idea for the game to remain popular, its just hard to do the transition for some.
and all 10 of those people will be playing at the level you require and be a good mesh with your core raid members?


No, that's why you never stop recruiting. I will tell you straight up they won't all be winners. Recruitment for mythic will be a full time job, much like it has been the past 2 expansions for 25m guilds. You are never done.

i don't know why i bother responding even, no sensible person would honestly think this way.


because you misunderstand me. You guys are reading recruit 10 people as you are done after that. I'll put it this way. The very first time I wanted to transition my (at the time) 10 man guild to 25 I had ~13 people on the roster. I recruited another 30 (absorbed a 10 man with 11 people, recruited another 19). This gave me a total of 43-45 players. After 2 weeks I did cuts and dropped the roster back down to 27. They certainly won't all be winners but again, thats why you never stop recruiting.

This was many years ago and my progression was very terrible (think we killed 2 heroic bosses in firelands pre-nerf). A guild with your progression will be able to market yourselves out the !@# and will have no problem recruiting quality players. They still won't all be of the caliber you seek.... some will, some won't.

can you do my guilds recruitment if so?


If you seriously want tippz (lmaolmao) I'd be more than happy to help ya but I'm pretty sure you guys will have it under control.
No, that's why you never stop recruiting. I will tell you straight up they won't all be winners. Recruitment for mythic will be a full time job, much like it has been the past 2 expansions for 25m guilds. You are never done.


There will be a ton of advantages under the new system, too. Recruits can be tested in cross-realm normal raids. Gearing recruits should be faster due to exclusive lockouts and players in normal guilds looking for a better experience will be free to pug into heroic (mythic) runs without leaving their current guild.
I think this change is good for the game. Yes, 25 and 10 heroic guilds will need to adjust, but it's healthier overall and I am totally behind it.

Good decision by Blizz and I'm looking forward to seeing it in action.
We recognize that, for some guilds, the transition from 10-player Heroic raiding to 20-player Mythic raiding is going to be something of a challenge. This wasn’t a decision we made lightly. Ultimately, we feel that the long-term benefits for everyone, such as better-tuned raid encounters, a faster encounter design process, and more variety in raid mechanics, are worth the short-term consequences – even for players in guilds facing this transition.

That said, I think there are several key factors worth bringing up that will help make the transition less frightening overall. For example:

1) This change is coming with an expansion. Historically, an expansion release has always been a volatile time for guild rosters – and a great time for recruitment. When everyone’s gear is suddenly equalized, the pool of potential recruits swells dramatically. It's also a time in which a lot of former players, friends, and guildmates return to the game. Sure, maybe not all of the above will be of the caliber you’re looking for as a Mythic-minded raiding guild, but you only need 10.

2) On a similar note, we’re continuing to roll out the Connected Realms feature. As more realms are connected, the potential recruitment pool on those realms will grow.

3) While 10-player guilds who want to do Mythic will need to pick up an extra 10 people, current 25-player guilds will need to shed some. That’s yet another thing that will lead into a higher pool of potential recruits.

4) Flexible scaling for Heroic (or Mists of Pandaria's "Normal") difficulty will allow many guilds to "ease in" to a 20-player raid size. Granted, if you’re planning on zoning into Mythic the first day it’s available, this won’t help you much, but for the guild that will spend a few weeks or months on Heroic (MoP Normal) difficulty before eventually clearing it and starting on Mythic, you’ll have plenty of time to expand your roster. What’s more, those new recruits won’t be expected to just warm the bench while they wait.

I think that’s an easy one to forget about. It’s easy to make a mental comparison between a Warlords of Draenor 10-player guild trying to recruit up to 20 for Mythic, and a Mists of Pandaria 10-player guild trying to recruit up to 25. But that comparison doesn’t really work, because the absolute biggest challenge that the MoP guild in this example faces is finding people who are willing to wait around and possibly not even raid as the guild expands its roster. That’s not a problem in Warlords – while you’re still working through and gearing up in Heroic, player 11, 12, 13, and so on will be able to join you. It’s much easier to keep recruits around when they’re actually getting to play. :)
inafterlore

edit:

Wow a whole 2 minutes and I still got it. I expect better response times in the future DRS

And now I'll go hide and come back later to read the massive whining about how they don't care
Turtles. (I like)
That said, I think there are several key factors worth bringing up that will help make the transition less frightening overall. For example:


Lore, one thing that worries some people in the 25 man 'being shed' position is the whole melee stigma that has been ongoing for 2 expacs now. Melee are becoming more and more stigmatised to be not as good as ranged, and ranged heavy raids are the norm. A lot of people in 25 are worried that the 5 lost to the downscale are going to be melee roles because 20 man isn't going to accommodate as many melee as there were in 25.

I hope this is going to be seriously looked at by the devs designing raid encounters to ensure that fights on Mythic do not heavily penalise melee, and no I don't mean making melee just tunnel the boss either. I mean that bringing us means making the mechanics exponentially harder to accomplish. It needs to be more balanced between the two dps roles.
And here I was wondering what the Weekly Marmot after Blizzcon would have been this year. I suppose this answers that.
20 Man Mythic - Best change ever IMO
Wow... a blue post in my post about 10mans... I cannot express more happyness, my week has been made.

Thank you so much.
It is well known that there is anywhere between 5-10 times as many heroic/mythic raiding teams/guilds than 25 man teams. So, the additional 5 people being shed by the 25 man guilds is not going to be anywhere near the demand for players from the 10 man teams trying to recruit 10 more players. The number 10 is bantered about lightly, but in reality, for a 10 man team, they have to recruit a whole other 10 man team. They have to double their roster. I know people will say "just merge with another team". Good idea, but most team mergers end in flames of drama. At this level of raiding, teams that exist now are a tight knit group of people with a chain of command and hierarchy. When you merge 2 teams like this, the teams will remain cliquish and there will be clashes of egos and authority. There will be friction and these issues will lead to alot of wipes and drama. An example of this is the merger of Exodus and Vodka. They did not even last one tier together.

The end result is going to be that there will be less heroic/mythic raiders which means an even smaller percentage of the WoW community partaking of this content.
Stop pretending everyone who cant merge is quitting.

A large percent will just gquit and find somewhere else
Thanks for the insight. Not everyone had the opportunity to see the panels so it was good to reiterate that information for the masses.
I for one welcome our Mythic overlords

I think that’s an easy one to forget about. It’s easy to make a mental comparison between a Warlords of Draenor 10-player guild trying to recruit up to 20 for Mythic, and a Mists of Pandaria 10-player guild trying to recruit up to 25. But that comparison doesn’t really work, because the absolute biggest challenge that the MoP guild in this example faces is finding people who are willing to wait around and possibly not even raid as the guild expands its roster. That’s not a problem in Warlords – while you’re still working through and gearing up in Heroic, player 11, 12, 13, and so on will be able to join you. It’s much easier to keep recruits around when they’re actually getting to play. :)


That's all well and good when the expansion ships, but until then we have no way to support growing a player pool short of doing very easy flex runs. Expanding to even 15-16 players off of 10mans alone is a good way to make people quit from lack of raid time.
I for one think 10 mans are much much harder than 25 mans. I see why they have made the change but I just wanted everyone to know how much harder 10 mans are vs 25 man.
but I just wanted everyone to know how much harder 10 mans are vs 25 man.


You won't win any friends with that statement.

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