I am absolutely BEGGING for an ability squish

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"I am absolutely BEGGING for an ability squish."

"I am absolutely BEGGING for homogenization." *

Fixed.
That’s another thing I do as well, just prioritize passive talents over activated ones. I’m sorry Natures vigil but I’ve already got too much crap to manage……. Those healing abilities could become the greatest things ever, but as long as Ysera’s Gift is the choice that doesn’t give me more headaches it gets the nod….
I would consider merging abilities moreso than deleting them. A lot of abilities are macroed together now anyway to reduce buttons on the UI. For example I macro Divine Protection and Speed of light together (I know it's a talent but still) or on my shaman I macro Berserking Troll racial Plus Ascendance together. I am just using a few examples but some things can easily be merged together and just fit them in the same tooltip.
I gotta say I feel the opposite of the OP. I'd rather see more abilities. If you don't enjoy using all of the abilities that ur class has to offer, then there is a very simple solution... Don't!

You can easily get by in a LFR setting with only using a few abilities and you still wouldn't be a hinderance to the group. Really, for most healing classes, if you were to only use 4-5 abilities, you would still do 80% of the healing someone using all of the abilities would.

Lets take for example, a resto shaman (As that is the healing class I'm most familiar with). If u put Riptide (HoT) up on both the tanks, cast Healing Rain (AoE HoT) on cooldown, cast Healing Stream Totem (smart heal that heals the lowest health raid member) on cooldown, spam Chain Heal (smart heal that heals 3 additional lowest health raid members) and use Greater Healing Wave or Healing Surge when someone gets really low you would be doing just fine and probably would do 75-80% of the heals of someone that has the class mastered and uses every possible ability. That is with using only 4-5 keybinds. If u are able to manage clicking the big CD's (Ascendance, Healing Tide Totem, Spirit Link Totem) every 2-3 minutes, you'd be doing closer to 90% of a shaman guru's heals.

I don't see how it is necessary to reduce the number of keybinds when a casual player can hit 4-5 keys and still do 75% of the heals as the best player would. Having the additional abilities gives players something to work to get better at and makes the game more fun than mindlessly pressing 4 keys over and over.

Other classes may be a little different but I know that the other classes I play all would have similar results by just using 4-5 abilities versus the entire repertoire. Arcane mage could use Rune of Power, Arcane Blast, Arcane Barrage and Arcane Missles. Frost Dk could use Howling Blast, Obliterate, Frost Strike and Plague Strike. Survival Hunter could use Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting (then Cobra Shot), Black Arrow and Kill Shot. Enhancement Shaman could use Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Unleash Elements, Flame Shock and Lightning Bolt.

Casual players should not expect to be able to do the same amount of damage or healing as someone who has mastered the class. Having additional abilities is what gives someone wanting to master a class something to work on and get better at.

Please don't take away our abilities and turn us into monkeys that can close our eyes and press keys 1 through 4 to use everything our class has to offer.
Personally, I hate this suggestion. I still feel I don't have enough buttons.

We really don't need this game to be any simpler.
Let's see if I can remember all of the things I have keybound...

1) My chakra heal
2) Circle of healing
3) Renew
4) G. Heal
5) Prayer of Healing
6) Binding Heal
7) Power Word: Shield
8) Guardian Spirit
9) Can't remember
0) Can't remember
-) Single target chakra
=) AoE chakra

On the bar above:
Shift+1) Flash Heal
Shift+2) Dispel
Shift+3) Void Shift
then some consumeables, buffs, and trinkets

Misc)
T) Prayer of Mending
R) Cascade
Shift+R) Void Tendrils
Shift+E) Angelic Feather thingy

I could stand to give up Void Shift, maybe PW:S in Holy... and that's it. All the rest I use pretty frequently. :\
11/25/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Baldur
one of the only areas blizzard seems to be behind their competition on
Blizzard is ahead of the competition. I've played some of these MMOs that only let you have 5 or 6 abilities. Snoozefest.

gameplay is more fun when you can actually bind your abilities to easily clickable buttons/keys.
1-6, shift+(1-5), alt+(1-4). Dead simple to reach.

I immediately logged off, started googling guides, and cracked out the ipad to watch videos on rotations, abilities and what not.
Why do that? Just read the ability descriptions and its readily apparent what they do and when you should use them.

Why do I need all of this!!!!!! As a healer I have buttons for: a normal heal, a HoT, a 3 stack HoT, a half heal half HoT, a heal that heals more based on the HoTs, a cooldown instant heal that requires a specific HoT, an AOE HoT, a HoT I place on the ground, a detonate for that ground HoT, an “Oh Crap” AoE HoT, an ability that makes my HoT’s tick faster. And that’s just for heals……. There’s still all the other crap that needs to be used (damage reduction on self, damage reduction on tank, cooldowns). I’ve got my 4 mouse thumb buttons already mapped to my stuns/interrupts/movement abilities!


Sounds perfect. But you know what? 4-5 core abilities will get you through dungeons fine. Incorporate more as your comfort and skill grows - for example as you are leveling and getting these abilities over time anyway. Some things you'll find you can do without if you're not PvPing. Try out the proving grounds.

The real problem is people expect instant mastery. That's not realistic and would not be good for the game.
Let's see if I can remember all of the things I have keybound...

-) Single target chakra
=) AoE chakra


You don't use the menu that has all the chakras on one button?
No. Druids are fine.

"Trimming down" abilities is removing tools from our toolbox. Druids are setup perfect right now, aside from nourish being almost completely useless. They definitely don't need to go through there gutting the spec and removing more heals.

Learn to use what is there instead of wanting the game dumbed down.


Generally speaking, if you have an ability keybound, it's probably at least fairly important to your class. Getting rid of abilities you don't have bound doesn't really fix anything


i have my mount(s) bound to F5 on my keyboard, but you're taking that away? I don't follow?
Increasing the number of buttons does not increase skill required to master a class-- It only increases hardware requirements (Razr Naga). I've become very good at juggling 40-50 keybinds without a Naga, any more abilities added to the game would basically necessitate a Naga. It doesn't make the game more fun-- NES games were plenty fun with two buttons.

It doesn't decrease complexity-- It forces the game to be redesigned around it. On my Brewmaster, instead of dropping healing spheres in the middle of a fight (clunky as hell, but it's hard to argue against a 300k instant heal) I could actually be given a more interesting tank-related job to do.

I believe Limited Action Sets (LAS) are the way to go. While Diablo 3 gets a little flak for LAS (although that's mostly due to some oversights in implementation), it does open up a lot of choices and careful gear-based consideration when setting up a particular loadout. (SNS Wizards feel really great once you finally have the survivability for it... well except for your carpal tunnel)

Currently there is no diversity or choice given to the player-- I don't feel unique from other Monks, the current talent system doesn't help. A LAS might actually help hybrid setups actually be viable and feel useful in a way that will never be possible with the current system.
The easiest way to squish the abilities is to combine them. Honestly I think Assassination rogues are just fine how they are rotation wise, but they really need to just remove SnD from all rogue specs or make them all auto-refresh the way Assassination does.

For feral, given that they have multiple bleeds to keep up, and short CD abilities to weave in, I think you should just remove Savage Roar. That's one button I'm sure almost every feral would love to see go away, if you'd just bake in a damage boost to compensate. Ferals really do have a ton of stuff to keep going at all times as it is.


I agree. The auto-refresh on SnD is a nice feature; would be nice to see that refresh for Combat and Sub as well, though it's not a huge game-changer if they don't. There's a bunch of other class/specs who need some serious attention as far as rotation/CDs go, at least before they get into messing with Rogues.

If I remember correctly, I read something about them making Savage Roar a toggle on/off ability in WoD. It's going to be their flat 40% dmg increase. I can't wait for that, will be one less thing to have to worry about with my Ferals lol >.<
Let's see if I can remember all of the things I have keybound...

-) Single target chakra
=) AoE chakra


You don't use the menu that has all the chakras on one button?


That requires me to click into a menu mid-fight (iirc), when it's easier to just have one button that I can press for each without having to look away from the health bars.
For feral, given that they have multiple bleeds to keep up, and short CD abilities to weave in, I think you should just remove Savage Roar. That's one button I'm sure almost every feral would love to see go away, if you'd just bake in a damage boost to compensate. Ferals really do have a ton of stuff to keep going at all times as it is.


Again NO! Proposed level 100 talent for druids changes it to passive, thats good enough! Some of us like SR as is!


You don't use the menu that has all the chakras on one button?


That requires me to click into a menu mid-fight (iirc), when it's easier to just have one button that I can press for each without having to look away from the health bars.


Good point, maybe I don't switch chakras enough. But then again I do mostly just ten man raid, so the AoE chakra doesn't come into play very often.
For example I macro Divine Protection and Speed of light together (I know it's a talent but still) [...] I am just using a few examples but some things can easily be merged together and just fit them in the same tooltip.


Not sure if you pvp or maybe are holy. But that definitely would not work for ret or prot paladins in a raid. The times you want to use Divine Protection (lots of magical damage--often a dot or a large AoE) are often not the times you need to use Speed of Light to quickly move away. I think merging abilities would end up with a lot of situations where it's rarely ideal to use both at once (DPS cooldowns excepted).
How about instead of less abilities, we have less GCDs, and more potential for unique, personalized macros that create an even more unique play style for every player.
The game is not easy enough, we must delete all buttons that you cannot fit onto 1, 2, 3.

Please speak for yourself and realize that some players (those who are serious and actually play the game) do, in fact, use everything with no problems and no complaints because anyone who has developed a brain can easily memorize, remember and play without issues with any and all keybinds and even those that we do not necessarily use a majority of the time but are still useful in certain situations.

I like my holy priest, I like all of the spells that I possess and I do not want to see anything cut down or taken away because Bob couldn't develop an IQ over 90. Thank you.
I'll speak as a feral druid. Before I say anything else, I would like shred removed from the game. At one point I'd rather advocate the removal of its positional requirement, but with the button bloat, giving its job to mangle seems more appropriate.

Onto the more interesting matter, I like having a lot of options, but I have perhaps too many options in a few departments. If the spec could be balanced around the removal of one in each category, I wouldn't mind(preferably the italicized):

Interrupting
  • skull bash
  • mighty bash/incapacitating roar
  • maim
  • pounce
  • typhoon

  • Survival Cooldowns
  • barkskin
  • might of ursoc
  • survival instincts
  • bear form

  • Mobility
  • dash
  • stampeding roar
  • travel form
  • powershifting

  • Crowd Control
  • Cyclone
  • Entangling Roots
  • Nature's Grasp
  • Hibernate
  • Soothe
  • Faerie Fire

  • Notes:
      For Mobility, I feel like Stampeding Roar is an appropriate ability for a Talent. For survivability, might of ursoc perhaps has the most flavor, as it forces bear form, but this is the only ability right now for ferals that does this with the change to bash, and it doesn't feel very good. The biggest disappointment to the split of the feral tree into two specs is now it feels like the cat spec, instead of the shapeshifting spec. Perhaps instead of having instant survival cooldown options, ferals can be provided with more options in bear form so it can be a much deeper choice. For interrupting, I think providing a passive talent option in that tier would be appropriate - likely in place of incapacitating roar; alternatively, you could put it in bashes' place, make bash baseline for furl and guardian, and then remove maim from the game - it being exceptionally unnecessary if shred were removed. In terms of crowd control, hibernate and scare beast have always been a bizarre "balancing" strategy to make up for polymorph immunity, but I believe it has little actual impact in pvp. I'd like to see Hibernate only work on NPCs. Nature's grasp is a neat spell, with a lot of depth, and while I like it and would love to keep it, if nothing else is addressed, it is the weakest link.


    Additional Thoughts:
      Incarnation adds a lot of extra things I have to bind. Currently I use macros to tie my stealth abilities to the same buttons as my out of stealth abilities, but with incarnation, you find reasons to use every ability on top of the stealth abilities, forcing an additional 4 buttons to be bound by taking 1 talent.


    Thanks for reading if you did!
    Let's see I have:

    A normal heal
    A quick heal
    A big heal
    An instant heal that generates a secondary resource
    A heal based upon that secondary resource
    An AoE heal based upon that secondary resource
    An AoE heal that generates the secondary resource
    A giant AoE heal hammer OR a beam of light that must shoot the boss to do the most healing
    The "Oh crap tank is dying" mega heal that you can use 1 time

    And that's just the heals.


    And that's what makes healing fun...lots of tools and the ability to decide which tool makes the most sense based on what's happening. Healing would be far less fun if it were reduced to, say, Small Heal, Medium Heal, Big Heal and AoE Heal.

    Personally, I don't think ability bloat has become too bad yet, but it's always a possibility for the future as each expansion adds new abilities and talents. However, I think the main thing to avoid is several spells occupying the same conceptual space (they do similar things and occupy the same niche). IMO, you should be choosing the right tool for the situation, not trying to decide which of several tools for this niche to deploy. If we really want to get down into "sub-niches," then make more use of glyphs and talents to change the behavior of an existing spell so that you can tailor abilities fight-by-fight rather than have every possible ability available at all times.

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