How do we manage priests on 4.0.3?

Death Knight
the topic title says it all

Everytime i get jumped by a shadow priest theres absolutely nothing that i can do, AMS cant save me. strangulate can only delay my death, and mindfreeze isnt enough to stop them from burning my tail to a crisp.

if i jump them i can manage to get their life to around 30-40% but i still end up dead, i dont have my PvP gear equiped right now, but i have something around 900 Res atm. maybe iam getting owned due to everyone walking around on warthfull nowdays?

still, ive heard complaints from other melee classes around my server regarding spriests current burst and dot damage, how do we deal with that?


(also i just spced into this unholy random spec just to see how unholy is doing now days, ive been frost for a long time i was using this build when i got steamrolled by the Spriests http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#j0hZMIMMfuRzfz0b:Mam )


this is not a QQ, or nerf cry, this is a question regarding priests from a DK perspective, not rogue, not hunter, not warrior.

also as a side question, how are 85 DK's doing on pvp
It sounds like your problem is a) spec and b) your amount of resilience. I run about 1320 resilience as 2H frost, which has much higher survivability than unholy. You can look at my armory to see exactly what I'm using.

As far as combat with shadow priests is concerned, you should be holding onto mind freeze until he tries to heal himself. You should make proper use of AMS to avoid the initial onset of dots/fear (most priests will try to fear you as soon as you're in range, so time it accordingly) and don't be afraid to strangulate them. That should give you enough time to burst them down so they're forced to use dispersion. While they're doing that, heal yourself with a ghoul sacrifice or Lichborne + Death Coil spam on yourself, which can bring you back up to full in a few short seconds if you're high on RP.
It sounds like your problem is a) spec and b) your amount of resilience. I run about 1320 resilience as 2H frost, which has much higher survivability than unholy. You can look at my armory to see exactly what I'm using.

As far as combat with shadow priests is concerned, you should be holding onto mind freeze until he tries to heal himself. You should make proper use of AMS to avoid the initial onset of dots/fear (most priests will try to fear you as soon as you're in range, so time it accordingly) and don't be afraid to strangulate them. That should give you enough time to burst them down so they're forced to use dispersion. While they're doing that, heal yourself with a ghoul sacrifice or Lichborne + Death Coil spam on yourself, which can bring you back up to full in a few short seconds if you're high on RP.


This simply won't work against any half decent shadow priest. Any priest that remotely knows their class abilities will just silence you and cast in front of your face as you are unable to do anything about it. follow that up with a 10 second disarm ,and you are pretty much screwed.

I've found that every half decent and moderately geared spriest you fight will completely destroy you as a death knight, granted they have all their cooldowns (Fear, disarm, silence, disperssion)
It sounds like your problem is a) spec and b) your amount of resilience. I run about 1320 resilience as 2H frost, which has much higher survivability than unholy. You can look at my armory to see exactly what I'm using.

As far as combat with shadow priests is concerned, you should be holding onto mind freeze until he tries to heal himself. You should make proper use of AMS to avoid the initial onset of dots/fear (most priests will try to fear you as soon as you're in range, so time it accordingly) and don't be afraid to strangulate them. That should give you enough time to burst them down so they're forced to use dispersion. While they're doing that, heal yourself with a ghoul sacrifice or Lichborne + Death Coil spam on yourself, which can bring you back up to full in a few short seconds if you're high on RP.


This simply won't work against any half decent shadow priest. Any priest that remotely knows their class abilities will just silence you and cast in front of your face as you are unable to do anything about it. follow that up with a 10 second disarm ,and you are pretty much screwed.

I've found that every half decent and moderately geared spriest you fight will completely destroy you as a death knight, granted they have all their cooldowns (Fear, disarm, silence, disperssion)


I may have an advantage as well because I'm an engineer and have a few more tools to get them off me while I'm disarmed. Mind control/grenades/etc.
Well first off you don't have any major glyphs, AMS, strang and either CoI or pest will help quite a bit. Secondly you don't have any PvP gear gemmed or enchanted which honestly helps a ton.

But that aside as frost I just simply destroy them -- I wasn't even aware people were having issues with them. If you get the jump on them you can pop AMS and prevent them from putting up dots or anything. I usually open with HB -> PS -> Oblit then see how much health they have. If they're low I'll just FS a few times and they're usually dead. Obviously BS needs to go in there before Oblit if they're well geared or just good but I honestly can't say I've seen many people needing that.

As Frost you can Lichborne the fear (if they didn't panic and blow it while AMS was up anyways), either hungering cold them through Psychic Horror so your weapon comes back, just spam HB like so many seem to enjoy or strang if its a group situation and hungering cold would be null. With that you should really be putting up a ton of pressure and one mind freeze should be GG. Of which, unless I'm mistaken, if they do silence you you can still mind freeze and buy your time. You could also pop blood tap and empower rune weapon to get more pressure out.

I haven't played unholy since 4.0 but a few things is just using AMS and AMZ well, never be afraid to pop icebound if you need to, use your gnaw either offensively or defensively - stun, go behind and pewpew, etc, and honestly even strang in the same way.

Honestly either way, run in and AMS - they can't do crap to you for 7 seconds. You can then just blanket strang them for another 5 seconds. As unholy you can either AMZ or gnaw them for even more time, but all the same 12 seconds of you ripping on them without even needing a mind freeze... they should be dead.
Well first off you don't have any major glyphs, AMS, strang and either CoI or pest will help quite a bit. Secondly you don't have any PvP gear gemmed or enchanted which honestly helps a ton.

But that aside as frost I just simply destroy them -- I wasn't even aware people were having issues with them. If you get the jump on them you can pop AMS and prevent them from putting up dots or anything. I usually open with HB -> PS -> Oblit then see how much health they have. If they're low I'll just FS a few times and they're usually dead. Obviously BS needs to go in there before Oblit if they're well geared or just good but I honestly can't say I've seen many people needing that.

As Frost you can Lichborne the fear (if they didn't panic and blow it while AMS was up anyways), either hungering cold them through Psychic Horror so your weapon comes back, just spam HB like so many seem to enjoy or strang if its a group situation and hungering cold would be null. With that you should really be putting up a ton of pressure and one mind freeze should be GG. Of which, unless I'm mistaken, if they do silence you you can still mind freeze and buy your time. You could also pop blood tap and empower rune weapon to get more pressure out.

I haven't played unholy since 4.0 but a few things is just using AMS and AMZ well, never be afraid to pop icebound if you need to, use your gnaw either offensively or defensively - stun, go behind and pewpew, etc, and honestly even strang in the same way.

Honestly either way, run in and AMS - they can't do crap to you for 7 seconds. You can then just blanket strang them for another 5 seconds. As unholy you can either AMZ or gnaw them for even more time, but all the same 12 seconds of you ripping on them without even needing a mind freeze... they should be dead.


Glyphs are 200g each on my server at the moment, iam getting them slowly, but i should have all soon.

as for pvp gear iam also working on that, i havent enchanted/gemmed yet since i just started farming most of my pvp gear.

the thing is as frost against Shadow Priests, even tho i could burst them down id get burned pretty easyly aswell, as unholy iam doing a little better against them, but still strugling a bit, il try 2handed frost next and see how it goe,s thx for the tips guys
Unholy is the easiest fight against Spriests IMO. Your first step to fighting one is to quit trying to prevent those dots. They are going to happen and they do hurt. Wait to be dotted up completely before popping AMS. Make sure your ghoul is not auto casting Gnaw. 99% of the time the first thing you'll be hit with after being dotted is a fear. This is the game changer. If the priest gets you feared off the fight shifted to their favor. Once you pop AMS strangulate. You want AMS to be absorbing those dots not additional attacks. Regardless of spec you want to lean towards Death Strikes when possible to negate some of the damage the dots are inflicting. Once AMS has worn off pop AMZ right away. Pop Gargoyle. Once AMZ is gone cast Gnaw. You should be winning or about to win by now and still have your spell interrupt ready to prevent any heals.

Things don't always go as planned but if you are feared trinket out right away. The further he puts you from him the easier it is for him to kill you. If you get feared off too far cast Gnaw once you trinket out of the fear. Do not ever death grip a spriest who hasn't casted disperse yet. If he does cast disperse follow him don't waste runes hammering on him. Make sure he doesn't lead you to 4-5 of his friends. Once the disperse is over if you have strang pop it. If you don't have it use Gnaw.

Our pets hit hard and are the most annoying thing a clothy has to deal with about us. Having them alive and kicking is the main key to dropping a good Spriest.

Things to remember:
Don't give the Priest any free time. They can disable our pets.
If you have to Death Pact make sure you use Gnaw first. No use in wasting it.
If a SPriest casts disperse in a BG and you are pretty low on health its a genuinely good idea to take this moment to run the opposite direction and find a healer or get health. Chasing after him is probably a bad idea.
Deathcoil Deathcoil Deathcoil keeps your disease from being removed and empowers your ghoul.

Its never an easy fight.
Well first off you don't have any major glyphs, AMS, strang and either CoI or pest will help quite a bit. Secondly you don't have any PvP gear gemmed or enchanted which honestly helps a ton.

But that aside as frost I just simply destroy them -- I wasn't even aware people were having issues with them. If you get the jump on them you can pop AMS and prevent them from putting up dots or anything. I usually open with HB -> PS -> Oblit then see how much health they have. If they're low I'll just FS a few times and they're usually dead. Obviously BS needs to go in there before Oblit if they're well geared or just good but I honestly can't say I've seen many people needing that.

As Frost you can Lichborne the fear (if they didn't panic and blow it while AMS was up anyways), either hungering cold them through Psychic Horror so your weapon comes back, just spam HB like so many seem to enjoy or strang if its a group situation and hungering cold would be null. With that you should really be putting up a ton of pressure and one mind freeze should be GG. Of which, unless I'm mistaken, if they do silence you you can still mind freeze and buy your time. You could also pop blood tap and empower rune weapon to get more pressure out.

I haven't played unholy since 4.0 but a few things is just using AMS and AMZ well, never be afraid to pop icebound if you need to, use your gnaw either offensively or defensively - stun, go behind and pewpew, etc, and honestly even strang in the same way.

Honestly either way, run in and AMS - they can't do crap to you for 7 seconds. You can then just blanket strang them for another 5 seconds. As unholy you can either AMZ or gnaw them for even more time, but all the same 12 seconds of you ripping on them without even needing a mind freeze... they should be dead.


Mind freeze is a spell, therefor you can't do it when you are silenced. Mind freeze can also be grounded by the shaman totem.

Your best chance to win is if you can force a disperssion without using strangulate. in this case time your strangulate so that you do it as disperssion ends, this will make it so they are out of the fight for 10 seconds or so.

This DK is my alt, my main is a shadow priest, and I can tell you that any decent shadow priest should not lose to a DK 1v1 unless there is some crazy RNG.
>.>

This DK is my alt, my main is a shadow priest, and I can tell you that any decent shadow priest should not lose to a DK 1v1 unless there is some crazy RNG.


Or you've just not fought any decent DKs. You were right about mind freeze though, I looked it up (I just renewed like 3 weeks ago after not playing since May). But that makes sense since you can do it through BoP.

As for the other DK you're pretty just... wrong. If you popped AMS chances are you'll put out enough pressure that they have to disperse. If they do that, you'd be better suited turning your runes to death runes if you can. The point is -- most people panic and do things they shouldn't. Using AMS as the crutch you want doesn't help near as much as the initial gap close time. If they were to disperse from that I'd consider it an easy win. If they didn't, I'd be killing them anyways. In any case, you win by making them do what you want.

But to the OP best of luck. You'll probably want to be doing BGs as frost right now, although it'll probably be unholy again come cata. Personally I enjoy 2h, namely since the only OH I have is a thunderfury. But learning the patterns of what most classes do and managing your CDs appropriately is key to all this.
I AMS to reduce the damage of the dots on me and block their ability to fear not to reduce incoming attacks after the dots. And I usually hope they disperse if I pop AMS. I'm not sure you can tell me I'm clueless if you think the priest popping disperse early is a bad thing. The earlier they pop it the better. Its like us burning our death grip right out the gate like an idiot. If you don't AMS those dots will half health you in no time and they'll still be ticking. Even if you block the fear those dots will kill you if you don't negate their damage. Period. An early AMS against a lock is probably a bad idea but against an Spriest and especially if your unholy? I don't think so.

An amazing DK vs. an amazing Spriest and it'll rely on who got the jump, it will still be a close fight, and the Spriest does have the major advantage. Any DK who is mopping the floor with priests is either incredibly lucky or killing priests wearing DPS gear.

But to each his/her own. That is how I've always fought them and its usually 50/50 for me. And I'm talking strictly 1v1 not arena fights or BG fights with a healer on you.
Unholy is the easiest fight against Spriests IMO. Your first step to fighting one is to quit trying to prevent those dots. They are going to happen and they do hurt. Wait to be dotted up completely before popping AMS. Make sure your ghoul is not auto casting Gnaw. 99% of the time the first thing you'll be hit with after being dotted is a fear. This is the game changer. If the priest gets you feared off the fight shifted to their favor. Once you pop AMS strangulate. You want AMS to be absorbing those dots not additional attacks. Regardless of spec you want to lean towards Death Strikes when possible to negate some of the damage the dots are inflicting. Once AMS has worn off pop AMZ right away. Pop Gargoyle. Once AMZ is gone cast Gnaw. You should be winning or about to win by now and still have your spell interrupt ready to prevent any heals.

Things don't always go as planned but if you are feared trinket out right away. The further he puts you from him the easier it is for him to kill you. If you get feared off too far cast Gnaw once you trinket out of the fear. Do not ever death grip a spriest who hasn't casted disperse yet. If he does cast disperse follow him don't waste runes hammering on him. Make sure he doesn't lead you to 4-5 of his friends. Once the disperse is over if you have strang pop it. If you don't have it use Gnaw.

Our pets hit hard and are the most annoying thing a clothy has to deal with about us. Having them alive and kicking is the main key to dropping a good Spriest.

Things to remember:
Don't give the Priest any free time. They can disable our pets.
If you have to Death Pact make sure you use Gnaw first. No use in wasting it.
If a SPriest casts disperse in a BG and you are pretty low on health its a genuinely good idea to take this moment to run the opposite direction and find a healer or get health. Chasing after him is probably a bad idea.
Deathcoil Deathcoil Deathcoil keeps your disease from being removed and empowers your ghoul.

Its never an easy fight.



This is just awful advice.

Spec Frost. AMS before any dots are on you, HB, Obliterate, BT, Obliterate. If he doesn't disperse he's going to die before your AMS even runs out.

If he disperses just wait it out and Strangulate as he's coming out of it, then continue killing him. You should take little to no damage killing a S Priest as a DK.
I AMS to reduce the damage of the dots on me and block their ability to fear not to reduce incoming attacks after the dots. And I usually hope they disperse if I pop AMS. I'm not sure you can tell me I'm clueless if you think the priest popping disperse early is a bad thing. The earlier they pop it the better. Its like us burning our death grip right out the gate like an idiot. If you don't AMS those dots will half health you in no time and they'll still be ticking. Even if you block the fear those dots will kill you if you don't negate their damage. Period. An early AMS against a lock is probably a bad idea but against an Spriest and especially if your unholy? I don't think so.

An amazing DK vs. an amazing Spriest and it'll rely on who got the jump, it will still be a close fight, and the Spriest does have the major advantage. Any DK who is mopping the floor with priests is either incredibly lucky or killing priests wearing DPS gear.

But to each his/her own. That is how I've always fought them and its usually 50/50 for me. And I'm talking strictly 1v1 not arena fights or BG fights with a healer on you.


I do believe I said if they disperse early its an easy win (meaning for the DK), if not they'll just die from my damage. Using your "defensive" cooldowns for offense is surprisingly insanely strong. Ever pop IBF when you see a rogue stealth by you and know they're coming? You kind of just crap on them when they can't stunlock you and panic. That's more or less what you're doing by the early AMS, they can't dot you as you run in meaning you essentially get the jump and can mind freeze their first cast and just pewp on them. But yes, to each their own. Best of luck with your way.

If he disperses just wait it out and Strangulate as he's coming out of it, then continue killing him. You should take little to no damage killing a S Priest as a DK.


Also this.
Well common sense tells you if you can start the fight before the dots AMS first is important. But even a moderately decent Priest is likely going to dot you before you even know whats up. Poor wording on my part I guess. I just meant to not freak out when you get those dots on you. My intent was just to make it a priority to get AMS up first and having AMS up is half the battle you have to silence the Spriest in some way afterward which we are both agreeing on. In my eyes we said the same thing but in different words. I just listed extra ways to keep yourself alive if you get the dots on you and he isn't dropping as fast as you need him to.

If your going to say I give awful advice please have more experience than HB and Oblit spam. Its easy to avoid and is not the end all be all. According to your "pro" strategy you kill this guy in 5 seconds. Because after those 5 seconds you don't have AMS anymore. You've burned all runes except for one blood and wasted your BT. A smart guy would fear you the instant that shield is off. Dot you up and you wouldn't ever get close enough even for a HB again. Just because you drop them as is if you walk straight up to them doesn't mean it works even when you aren't already on him. And guess what in PvP even the most moderate clothies stay very aware of plates. You can break that fear with Lichborne but if he has the distance he'll shackle you and keep moving back refreshing his dots. Pop your trinket. Now you'll DG him because you want to spam the hell out of HB and Oblit he'll disperse away as his dots kill you. The end. Popping AMS early only works if you are already on top of him. If your not sneaking up on him he already has dots on you anyway. Really its extremely situational but saying my method is terrible just shows your ignorance.
AMS is 7, you should be glyphing it if you're not. If they fear you you're obviously in melee range, if thats the case and the DK is "half decent" they'll be either popping lichborne or trinketing right away and most likely have a 90% chance of mind freezing whatever the priest is doing or just grip them in to cancel the spell. By then more runes are up to pewp on them and possibly force a dispersion with, at most, a SW:P on you (assuming they didn't use it after your initial hits when AMS was up - which they probably did). I understand you're attempting to play devil's advocate to back yourself, but its all really easily counterable. I already said a bunch of counters I think in my first post, so I don't really see the point in rehashing anymore.

But to each his/her own. That is how I've always fought them and its usually 50/50 for me. And I'm talking strictly 1v1 not arena fights or BG fights with a healer on you.


When you said that I assumed you meant both people knew what was going on such as a duel, hence the AMS convo.

Unholy is the easiest fight against Spriests IMO. Your first step to fighting one is to quit trying to prevent those dots


Also that.
HB Spam kills people now? everyone is on fullwrathfull gear, is 2h frost burst that high?
stamina gems, no glyphs, no enchants, all around bad gear and you wonder why you cant kill people hmmm...


, iam almost fully glyphed now, enchants and gems wont make much of a diference, and i never said i cant kill anyone i just struggle against shadow priests.

if your not going to say anything helpfull dont say anything at all, as i said in my first post i will be working on gems and enchants, but there is no point in spending money now with the cataclysm coming out in 2weeks

why theres always have to be a troll.

Edit: I apologize to the paladin class, i ended up flaming the class with not real reason
AMS is 7, you should be glyphing it if you're not. If they fear you you're obviously in melee range, if thats the case and the DK is "half decent" they'll be either popping lichborne or trinketing right away and most likely have a 90% chance of mind freezing whatever the priest is doing or just grip them in to cancel the spell. By then more runes are up to pewp on them and possibly force a dispersion with, at most, a SW:P on you (assuming they didn't use it after your initial hits when AMS was up - which they probably did). I understand you're attempting to play devil's advocate to back yourself, but its all really easily counterable. I already said a bunch of counters I think in my first post, so I don't really see the point in rehashing anymore.

But to each his/her own. That is how I've always fought them and its usually 50/50 for me. And I'm talking strictly 1v1 not arena fights or BG fights with a healer on you.


When you said that I assumed you meant both people knew what was going on such as a duel, hence the AMS convo.

Unholy is the easiest fight against Spriests IMO. Your first step to fighting one is to quit trying to prevent those dots


Also that.


Well like I said that was terrible wording on my part. This guy was having problems with shadow priests. I was trying to get him to understand that if he does get dotted not to freak out and don't go into instant omgneedheals mode popping every CD he had to run away. I wanted to explain to him in a play by play that those CDs can easily be used to win the fight. I still feel Unholy has more room for error than Frost (and especially blood). I should have chosen my words more carefully and I apologize for that. I find everything you've said to be very true and feel like you are very intelligent when it comes to this. I wanted to help a guy out who was having trouble. As for the other people it makes me sick to see this "elitist attitude". Why not help the guy out with gems and enchants instead of insulting his gear or claiming you and bring down another player in a matter of seconds without really explaining how. Yes you can google just about any guide and any kind of information but in a game that changes almost weekly and is many years old its very hard to find good information that is current. EJ is very helpful but is by no means a good resource for someone who is new to the game and doesn't have moderately higher level gear. Not everyone can jump into a BG and quickly figure out what they are doing wrong when they die. Those that do learn quickly should try to help out those that don't instead of being a jackass. Otherwise why the hell are you coming into a topic that is asking for help to begin with?

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