any rets notice something?

Paladin
since 4.0 patch i noticed something... i've been out threating tanks like crazy. I'm always have to cast salvation on myself or use my bubble.

I'm not sure whats going on. It seems like to happen a lot when i party/raid with bear tanks but it happens with all tanks. And i usually give them the "wait 10 secs then dps" but even with that, im still out threating them.

did the tanks get their tanking/threat gen nerfed or something?
My DKs threat seemed to go up, while my warrior and druid went down.
I would imagine doing more damage increases your threat. =P
Yes, but it's a combination of two factors, so far as I can tell:

1. Slower initial threat generation for tanking classes (it ramps up quickly with vengeance, but if a tank is trying to do 3.x tanking in 4.x they're going to have some problems).

2. My dps increased significantly
Yeah ive noticed that, doesn't seem to be too huge of an issue with good tanks aslong as i wait on wings which kinda sucks because you want it off cd again before the end of the fight if ya can but if i pop it in the 1st 20 seconds or so just seems like tanks cant hold it at all. then again i didnt play ret much at all before the patch <3 it now.
OP, one problem you have is that you have reforged to mastery. Whilst lowering your DPS you also have the amusing issue that you are more likely to get HoL procs, and if you get a couple of lucky HoL procs at the start of the fight you will likely pull threat. Reforge to haste.

Also, I checked your achievements and you didn't play much in TBC, and you are a belf. You probably don't remember the alliance entertainment of having UP DPS but if a lucky string of crits and SoC procs happened at the start of a fight you could easily pull threat.

At least now you are in control of your destiny. Don't pop wings until the tank has a lead. And watch omen before getting carried away with TV and exo procs. At least now we can choose whether we pull threat.
don't pop wings right from the start, HoW generates crazy aggro. if you do want to blow your wings early, immediately use HoSalv on yourself to help mitigate some of the aggro you are generating.
Alot of tanks are still adjusting to the new changes and are having difficulty deciding which attacks to use for the number of mobs they are facing. At least thats what I've noticed. Personally, I encourage the dps to hit 'em hard. Helps me learn how to hold the mobs in place so I'll be better prepared for the Cata instances.
We're still in a transitional phase and a lot of folks are still relearning their classes. Tanking is not nearly as foolproof as it used to be, and threat ceilings are supposed to be a real limitation now opposed to a theoretical one such as in 3.x. You're just going to have to start minding your threat meter more and holding back when you start to push the threat ceiling.
I noticed I pulled threat off my L16 tank last night. I call shenanigans. If you Armory and mock my cloth shoulders, I shall become very cross.

In all seriousness, my main is a tank and I've noticed that it is *easier* for the dps to pull off me, but not guaranteed. I have to be on my game and they have to be on theirs. If I blink or they don't manage their aggro things start peeling off. But we're all learning what we can and can't get away with. I wouldn't worry about it too much. After all, that's what we have Salvation for, right?
I am having the same issue. When i had just hit level 80 mid october i had no problems with threat on bosses. But now a few weeks later i am usually just barely under the tank, even when i dumb down my rotation.

Its like the more dps i do, the more threat i put out.

It's crazy!!!
OP, one problem you have is that you have reforged to mastery. Whilst lowering your DPS you also have the amusing issue that you are more likely to get HoL procs, and if you get a couple of lucky HoL procs at the start of the fight you will likely pull threat. Reforge to haste.

Also, I checked your achievements and you didn't play much in TBC, and you are a belf. You probably don't remember the alliance entertainment of having UP DPS but if a lucky string of crits and SoC procs happened at the start of a fight you could easily pull threat.

At least now you are in control of your destiny. Don't pop wings until the tank has a lead. And watch omen before getting carried away with TV and exo procs. At least now we can choose whether we pull threat.


Take his advice and reforge to haste, but don't expect the threat issues to go away. I have 0 extra mastery and struggle with threat, too. It's just the new style of random procs that spike your threat above what it should be right now. I expect this not to be an issue at 85 so all you can do till then is just not use your rng procs and time your wings better. Yeah, I know that sucks.
I've just started giving the tank more time on the initial pull, it's slightly annoying but it usually does the trick and keeps the boss off me.
We're still in a transitional phase and a lot of folks are still relearning their classes. Tanking is not nearly as foolproof as it used to be, and threat ceilings are supposed to be a real limitation now opposed to a theoretical one such as in 3.x. You're just going to have to start minding your threat meter more and holding back when you start to push the threat ceiling.


^^ this. Not only has DPS increase dramatically (dps has a 1:1 threat ratio), but tank threat has been tinkered with. AoE threat is WAY down, and single target threat is manageable but more challenging then wrath. DPS have to learn to manage their aggro. This idea has been not only espoused multiple time in multiple threads as cat was being developed, but it's been quoted by blues as well.

having to use your bubble and *gasp* threat reducing skills (hehehe) is what we vanilla/BC players call "threat management"

I still chuckle when i think about DPS that are surprised that they have to use their threat reduction skills to...OHNOES...reduce threat.

I know...it's horrible...but it's okay you can cry on my shoulder if you can bend over that far.
Bad tanks are still bad after the patch.
^ Nothing is new about this.
Bad tanks are still bad after the patch.
^ Nothing is new about this.


Tis the truth, pretty sure even Blizzard came out and said "If you can't hold threat as the tank, it is your fault"





....I also could be very crazy and hear things that were never said.
^^ this. Not only has DPS increase dramatically (dps has a 1:1 threat ratio), but tank threat has been tinkered with. AoE threat is WAY down, and single target threat is manageable but more challenging then wrath. DPS have to learn to manage their aggro. This idea has been not only espoused multiple time in multiple threads as cat was being developed, but it's been quoted by blues as well.



having to use your bubble and *gasp* threat reducing skills (hehehe) is what we vanilla/BC players call "threat management"



I still chuckle when i think about DPS that are surprised that they have to use their threat reduction skills to...OHNOES...reduce threat.



I know...it's horrible...but it's okay you can cry on my shoulder if you can bend over that far.

While I'm too lazy to test it out myself, I saw several posts on the old forums saying that the problem was due to the fact that ret actually does *NOT* have a 1:1 damage/threat ratio like its supposed to, specifically with Crusader Strike. If this is true, I'd guess it was due to some tanking change that didn't take into account the fact that CS is used by both prot and ret.
And yes, even while using Hand of Salvation (our *ONLY* threat reduction ability since our passive talents got removed) every time its off CD, threat still tends to be an issue in many fights.

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