Divine storm beta vs live

Paladin
Post Limit:
What do you mean DS isn't useful in PvE? I can believe it for PvP but it is a very useful spell in those times when you have a bunch of trash all whaling on the tank.

Now in boss fights it probably will only be used once or twice for that boost to health for the party/raid it gives.


Trash dies fine, its trash for a reason.....It doesn't mean anything. Other classes can take care of AoE.

And the "heal" added is Random people, it won't do much healing raid wide lol.

It's still useless on a boss. But now it's at least OK for heroics and trash. And farming pirates for steamwheedle rep.

At least with the new change, it can just go AFK on trash and spam divine storm, The way it is now i gotta cs filler cs filler cs Divine storm lol.
What do you mean DS isn't useful in PvE? I can believe it for PvP but it is a very useful spell in those times when you have a bunch of trash all whaling on the tank.

Now in boss fights it probably will only be used once or twice for that boost to health for the party/raid it gives.


Trash dies fine, its trash for a reason.....It doesn't mean anything. Other classes can take care of AoE.

And the "heal" added is Random people, it won't do much healing raid wide lol.

It's still useless on a boss. But now it's at least OK for heroics and trash. And farming pirates for steamwheedle rep.

At least with the new change, it can just go AFK on trash and spam divine storm, The way it is now i gotta cs filler cs filler cs Divine storm lol.



the "heal" is a smart heal meaning it will find the person with the lowest health and heal that person. and your last sentence i agree with. this just gives us more utility for trash.. people who are QQ'ing about using a single target spell like CS for trash must be smoking something.
For those who aren't familiar, Elitist Jerks has an excellent ongoing, rigorous anaylsis of paladin abilities now and for 85. I highly recommend it if you are wondering about specific numbers.

At 80% damage divine storm actually needs 5 targets to pull ahead of crusader strike; see the EJ string for the math. Many people forget that seals of command means that crusader already functions like an aoe cleave. Thus putting it and DS on the same cooldown means that there is overlapping functionality.

If they really want DS back in the rotation I think Blizzard needs to really reimagine how either it or seals of command functions. Perhaps the answer is to make seals of command a single target talent of sone kind, if they want crusader strike to be the go-to single target strike, and DS to be the go-to aoe strike. As well, DS needs to proc holy power just like CS.

Of course, then it becomes a lot like prot with CS and HotR.
If they bump the damage up to 100%, give or take, it should overtake crusader strike at three mobs, which would make it far more usable. The holy power thing would still be an issue, of course.

As well, the better you make divine storm, the more pointless you make seals of command. The more I thi about it, the more I think seals of command needs to reimagined. We just don't need two trash dps abilities on the same cooldown. It makes little sense.

Or, take divine storm off the CS cooldown. We would LOVE to have another filler!

I dunno. I think our whole rotation needs an overhaul. It doesn't work together super well, and holy power is clumsily implemented. I love what they are trying to do with retribution, but it just doesn't feel like it's gelling right now. But maybe that's just me.
As well, the better you make divine storm, the more pointless you make seals of command. The more I thi about it, the more I think seals of command needs to reimagined. We just don't need two trash dps abilities on the same cooldown. It makes little sense.


Well, that isn't quite right. Divine Storm being clearly superior to Crusader Strike on 3 targets, say, only negates the SoC procs from CS. It would still activate from auto attacks and Templar's Verdict, which together are likely more than half of our SoC procs.
the only TV's you'd be getting would be from hand of light procs and divine purpose, if it can proc from the "new" divine storm
Many people forget that seals of command means that crusader already functions like an aoe cleave. Thus putting it and DS on the same cooldown means that there is overlapping functionality.



Seals of Command only adds the cleave to Seal of Righteousness
As well, the better you make divine storm, the more pointless you make seals of command. The more I thi about it, the more I think seals of command needs to reimagined. We just don't need two trash dps abilities on the same cooldown. It makes little sense.


Well, that isn't quite right. Divine Storm being clearly superior to Crusader Strike on 3 targets, say, only negates the SoC procs from CS. It would still activate from auto attacks and Templar's Verdict, which together are likely more than half of our SoC procs.
the only TV's you'd be getting would be from hand of light procs and divine purpose, if it can proc from the "new" divine storm


Provided they don't fix DS to give HP guaranteed, yes. But even then my point is valid, as you'll auto attack more often than you CS, unless your weapon is slower than 4.5s.


But I think my point still stands: if you take Crusader Strike out of the equation, you take a lot of the functionality out of seals of command, so you have indeed decreased it's worth, no?

I just think that trying to make us use Divine Storm in place of Crusader Strike when CS with seals of command already serves a similar purpose doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You still need at least 5 mobs to make an 80% DS ever worth casting. That many mobs only happens in unusual trash situations and isn't worth having a special ability for. "This is my button for when I have five or more targets in melee range" is kinda meh, I think.

Really, Divine Storm in place of Templar's Verdict as the AoE finisher is more logical. That gave a logical progression: CS (SoR for cleave) -->DS for AoE; CS (SoT) --TV for single target. DS just wasn't hitting hard enough to make players care much about it. Now we will have a choice between two somewhat comparable openers and no finisher at all for AoE.

Basically, as long as AoE remains really low for us, players aren't going to get excited about whatever weak tools we have. We're talking about trash situations for the most part, anyway, and by all accounts there will be much less AoE in Cata. So I think that if they really want players to embrace DS again the designers need to give it some sort of added functionality, or increase the damage to the point where it is hard to ignore.
DS = AoE ability, it had no use in our rotation anyway.

But in all seriousness, It still wont' be used in pvp, and it truthfully isn't needed PvE. I mean who cares about trash dps.....

Long story short, it should be baseline not a talent.

actually i saw that our 40% to generate holy power talent now effects divine storm, so maybe it'll be ok for holy power.


Divine Purpose has always included Divine Storm.....
Why is there this much talk about divine storm ffs?

It's like hunters crying thinking they should have Volley in their rotation.

AOE ABILITY IS AOE ABILITY. /end thread.
Why is there this much talk about divine storm ffs?

It's like hunters crying thinking they should have Volley in their rotation.

AOE ABILITY IS AOE ABILITY. /end thread.

Because they want a reason to take the darned thing.

What you've said amounts to 'TRASH ABILITY IS TRASH'

What's the point of an ability if it sucks? It's like Shamans and Earthquake, it's a DPS loss to take an ability that's supposed to be useful, but ends up as pointless in most situations.
The point is that blizz has made it clear that they want DS to be a desirable talent and are tinkering to make it so. These being the Blizzard forums, we are offering ideas on the matter. Shame on us, I suppose.

Anyway, consensus seems to be that at 80% the damage isn't quite enough to make DS useful in many situations, but I still think they need to revisit seals of command if they are reworking DS.

Here's my next question: without crusader strike procs, does switching to seal of righteousness become a dps loss? In other words, if divine storm replaces CS for aoe, is there ever a situation in which we would use SoR?
The point is that blizz has made it clear that they want DS to be a desirable talent and are tinkering to make it so. These being the Blizzard forums, we are offering ideas on the matter. Shame on us, I suppose.

Anyway, consensus seems to be that at 80% the damage isn't quite enough to make DS useful in many situations, but I still think they need to revisit seals of command if they are reworking DS.

Here's my next question: without crusader strike procs, does switching to seal of righteousness become a dps loss? In other words, if divine storm replaces CS for aoe, is there ever a situation in which we would use SoR?


I am not sure about the SoR usage, it is one of those things that will be theory crafted when 4.0.3 is finalized because it is such a borderline thing.

And as for the DS discussions TBH it is kind of annoying me. Ret is in a bad way at 85 at the moment and blizzard are messing around with something that, in all honesty, was fine the way it was in 4.0.

It is just a repeat of the 2.3 or 2.4 SotC bug fix, when we were just coming out of lolret and alliance rets were crying out for SoB they decided that the best use of resources was to fix a bug that no one even knew existed.

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